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  1. #166
    Fantastic Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    I knew coming to this thread would be hilarious.

    It literally doesn't matter that Superman is black.

  2. #167
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    I knew coming to this thread would be hilarious.

    It literally doesn't matter that Superman is black.
    Yeah, I'm more concerned about Ta-Nehisi Coates writing Superman than I am which Superman we're getting.

  3. #168
    Fantastic Member Jack The Tripper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, I'm more concerned about Ta-Nehisi Coates writing Superman than I am which Superman we're getting.
    That's fair, I'm interested to see his take though. Especially considering it's apparently from a JJ Abrams outline. Hopefully without Abrams directing/writing the feature, both Coates and Abrams can play to their strengths and hopefully get a great director on board to tie it all together.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    Sorry but I can’t help but chuckle at the un-ironic phrasing of “you’re eliminating white characters.” Yeah...I totally would ‘take away’ representation from the white community by seldomly race-bending characters like Patrick O’ Brein(aka, Plastic Man) if someone cast him as Asian. I mean think of the outcry from the white community who’s historically never been well-represented in superhero media before, and totally still doesn’t get repeatedly cast as white superhero characters! As Helen Lovejoy would say:”Think of the children!”

    lol, come on now. Let’s not get hyperbolic here.
    Let me explain why we see crap like that.

    To them it is eliminating white characters.

    A lot of properties did EXCLUDE POC.
    A lot of properties that had POC made them the least developed of the cast-especially black ones.
    A lot of properties only include POC (mainly black ones) for racism or gang or hood stories.

    Once upon a time you could toss out a lily white cast for a project. In same cases you still can.

    Superman, Batman, WW, Flash, Aquaman, Green Arrow and Hal Jordan was it for Justice League. In fact you can still buy stuff with that version of the league in stores.

    Now folks are asking where are the POC at? Where are the WOMEN?

    So who gets taken out? Oh yeah a white guy-who can still appear but he is NOT a member of the main cast. That is what some of the trolls are MAD about. Like they were with Finn in Star Wars and Black Johnny Storm in FF.

    The fear is the more doors a Miles or Static or Blade or Black Panther knock down, the fewer shots Hal Jordan and others may get.

    There were guys ready to shoot up movie theaters over Finn in Star Wars saying he was encouraging White geocide in Star Wars. Finn had 2 solo story issues in comics. Yet who got the brunt of the backlash.


    Again Marvel MCU is looking better in this area,
    Miles until Thor 2 (Jane Foster was Thor then) had some unwritten rule of whoever is in the comic MATCHES whoever is in the movie (Gen X being an exception) or tv show. So that forced them to use Falcon and others. Which is why you see those comic book prices for appearances going up on Ebay.

    Excluding Cyborg-black characters at DC seem to be MIA in most media-who was not race changed like 1989 Harvey Dent until Justice League. In the comics it was no better.

  5. #170
    Fantastic Member Menacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, I'm more concerned about Ta-Nehisi Coates writing Superman than I am which Superman we're getting.
    Exactly, if he crafts a brilliant script and the movie is well executed it doesnt matter about skin color, just means we get another great superhero movie

    If not, well that'll suck for dc in general and wont have anything to do with skin tones

  6. #171
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    That's fair, I'm interested to see his take though. Especially considering it's apparently from a JJ Abrams outline. Hopefully without Abrams directing/writing the feature, both Coates and Abrams can play to their strengths and hopefully get a great director on board to tie it all together.
    I feel like they need to bank more on Abrams here to ensure the film ends up being the marketable and entertaining spectacle that a Superman film needs to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Menacer View Post
    Exactly, if he crafts a brilliant script and the movie is well executed it doesnt matter about skin color, just means we get another great superhero movie

    If not, well that'll suck for dc in general and wont have anything to do with skin tones
    I'm not confident in Coates' Superhero fiction.

  7. #172
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I feel like they need to bank more on Abrams here to ensure the film ends up being the marketable and entertaining spectacle that a Superman film needs to be.
    The problem with Abrams is that his two Star Wars films were blatant rehashes of films in the first trilogy (though even TLJ was kind of still this for Empire). I fear his view of what is marketable and entertaining might just be to an attempt to rehash Donner yet again, when Superman badly needs something fresh. Both Singer and arguably Snyder rehashed Donner in their own ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm not confident in Coates' Superhero fiction.
    Does he really undermine T'Challa as badly as I'm hearing?

    Doesn't seem to have endeared himself to Cap fans either.

  8. #173
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    I'm ok with Michael B. Jordan playing a black Superman...as long as it's Calvin Ellis. He even said that a couple of years ago that if he were playing Supes, it would be that one.

  9. #174
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The problem with Abrams is that his two Star Wars films were blatant rehashes of films in the first trilogy (though even TLJ was kind of still this for Empire). I fear his view of what is marketable and entertaining might just be to an attempt to rehash Donner yet again, when Superman badly needs something fresh. Both Singer and arguably Snyder rehashed Donner in their own ways.
    Well, I'm not all for a rehash, but maybe a good Donner rehash is something people might be in the market for. I don't know.
    Does he really undermine T'Challa as badly as I'm hearing?

    Doesn't seem to have endeared himself to Cap fans either.
    Depending on who you ask, yes.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    People bitched complained when they first used Miles, In fact there was mass moaning again when Miles game got announced. In terms of majors and thing actually made We are sitting in 2021 with

    1 Black Superhero movie in Black Panther(2 if you count Blade)
    2 female lead movies Cap Marvel and Wonder woman
    2 Shows Luke Cage and Black Lighting

    That is awful. That is not just fine, We are in this situation because comic fans and comic companies value older characters over anything else. I can pull stuff people whining about Naomi being on the Justice League and this is the right type of usage. You get racebending because fan whine just as hard about new characters and legacy character being used. Racebending is the middle solution in the companies mind to add diversity and still use old popular characters.

    Anyways the comic world should reflect the real world numbers that is all that needs to happens. Yeah they should use new and legacy characters but it doesn't happen and people jump up to praise token usage doesn't help infact it helps the problem continues. So yeah you are going to get racebending until they try and successful use other characters which does not happen. I can bet you if that DC announce an Icon movie they would be fans crying about where is the Superman movie why are they using this 2nd rate character instead of the Iconic classic and more popular character.

    There is very much a reason for race bending because there is a refusal for other characters to be accepted in important roles. And the proof is in the results which I posted up there but at least there is a little light on horizon with MCU. But there is very much a cycle of

    - You should use New Characters, We don't want new characters give us the old characters
    -We are fine with Legacy characters, You can't use the legacy characters over the original character
    -Okay fine we are racebending original character, Give us the new characters and legacy minority characters instead

    And nothing ever changes which is why we have so few stuff.Again the comic world should reflect the real world numbers that is all that needs to happens.
    So basically you're saying"move over white characters. It's time for minority characters to shine. There's no need for stories for white characters any more."

  11. #176
    Ultimate Life Form BlackClaw's Avatar
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    Was it really that hard to just green light an Icon movie? Especially when MBJ is producing a Static movie?
    T'Challa
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  12. #177
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Anyways the comic world should reflect the real world numbers that is all that needs to happens.
    The black population of the United States is about 13%. They're called minorities for a reason. There's not as many of them.

    (Just slightly more than) One out of ever ten superheroes would be black going by those numbers. The Justice League has six members. One of them is Cyborg. Suicide Squad had eight members. One of them was black. Another one was whatever Killer Croc was supposed to be. On the Marvel side, there are only about ten solo characters that have their own movie. Black Panther is one of them. There are about 13-14 or so characters considered "Avengers" in the movies (depending on who you count.) Falcon, War Machine, Nick Fury, and Black Panther are four of them.

    That's actually BETTER than real world numbers.

  13. #178
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CTTT View Post
    So basically you're saying"move over white characters. It's time for minority characters to shine. There's no need for stories for white characters any more."
    Any time someone goes so you are saying it is never what the person is saying. No, I am saying no more "white hero" stories but I am saying to have more stories about minorities they will be less white hero stories for awhile if you are trying to bring it in line with reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    The black population of the United States is about 13%. They're called minorities for a reason. There's not as many of them.

    (Just slightly more than) One out of ever ten superheroes would be black going by those numbers. The Justice League has six members. One of them is Cyborg. Suicide Squad had eight members. One of them was black. Another one was whatever Killer Croc was supposed to be. On the Marvel side, there are only about ten solo characters that have their own movie. Black Panther is one of them. There are about 13-14 or so characters considered "Avengers" in the movies (depending on who you count.) Falcon, War Machine, Nick Fury, and Black Panther are four of them.

    That's actually BETTER than real world numbers.
    If I was just talking about Black people you would have a point. Reality is filled with more than white and black people. The largest population in the world is China then India plus Indonesia, Pakistan, Brazil, Mexico, Nigeria have huge populations as well and that would show up even from a pure US perspective.

    Beside I have said in my post my Marvel and DC have a great job of filling their roster with side characters and bit characters who are a minority. The issue is at the top in meaningful stories and roles.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 02-28-2021 at 09:32 PM.

  14. #179
    【Cool And Good】 The Gold Stream's Avatar
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    66% of the world population is asian so on one hand marvel/DC isnt representing all people accurately but on the other hand it's a minority success story
    Last edited by The Gold Stream; 02-28-2021 at 09:50 PM.

  15. #180
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    Hilarious that at the 2minute mark McDuffie describes you as a an eleven years ago.

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