‘Superman’ Reboot Being Produced By JJ Abrams With Ta-Nehisi Coates Writing

[obatalla]

All this talk about how a white character being white doesn't matter is troublesome on the face of it. No one would say that about any other group.

There is nothing about Cyborg or John Stewart that says they have to be black, but I don't think it would go over so well if they tried to make them another group.

I understand that there's tons of white superheroes and much fewer minority superheroes, but the idea that white superheroes and white people should be erased as a way to fix that has a subtext that's really unsettling.

When neal adams was drawing him....

[Immortal Weapon]

I was hoping this would be Icon instead of Superman.

[Javaxcore]

..........


.....

[skyvolt2000]

All this talk about how a white character being white doesn't matter is troublesome on the face of it. No one would say that about any other group.

There is nothing about Cyborg or John Stewart that says they have to be black, but I don't think it would go over so well if they tried to make them another group.

I understand that there's tons of white superheroes and much fewer minority superheroes, but the idea that white superheroes and white people should be erased as a way to fix that has a subtext that's really unsettling.

I agree. However when DC, Marvel or WHOEVER has offered original black characters-the LINE starts to the left with SOMEONE having an issue with them.

Along with companies QUICK to give up after one setback or even success.

[skyvolt2000]

I mean...was the wider audience that familiar with Miles Morales before Into The Spider-Verse? These movies can introduce these less well known characters to a wider audience.

Miles Morales was in a cartoon voiced by Donald Glover

Miles had at least 5-7 trades in stores. Softcover and hardcover version. I think there was even a library version.

Miles had anywhere from 2-5 action figures in stores.

Miles was SEEN on Spider-Man merchandise including kid's valentines, Easter baskets, greeting cards and so on.

Miles has a NEW YORK TIMES BEST SELLING Novel in stores.

Miles's costume was already being made into cosplay and Halloween costumes (mainly in Japan)

Miles was already in the public's eye before that movie was greenlighted.

this is my issue with the superficial diversity in Hollywood. If Hollywood really cared about representation, they need to do this series right,

make a brand new black superman not clark kent and really build it up. let the audience fall in love with this newcomer, it does not need billion dollar budget, it just needs to be a very good, well made film that covers its budget and let the sequels keeps building from that.

The ISSUE is these studios do NOT want to write those CHECKS in the first place. Nor greenlight those movies.

See SOME studios do NOT have an issue if a movie with a white hero (Green Lantern, Lone Ranger, John Carter or Constantine) being a FLOP.

Those flops will NOT stop pitches for Aquaman, Shazam, Green Arrow, Superman or whoever is white.

If it's Steel or Catwoman-they bomb it's we can't do Black Panther or Cap Marvel or Static.

Steel and Catwoman cost a combine $117 million and made $83 million (82 for Catwoman and 1 million for Steel). $34 million loss (not counting promo and merchandise)

John Carter costed $250 and made $284. $34 million loss. 2 movies that cost less lost the same amount as one movie with a higher budget.

Its the folks in charge that tend to be the issue.

[green_garnish]

I am pretty sure every studio has an issue with a movie being a flop.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Why? And who decides where the line has to be drawn?

I don't think anyone is claiming that the problem is with Superman's race (or what he comes across as anyways). Whatever happened with Cavill's Superman is WB's fault - with their constant meddling and all.

WB is doing this is to capture the BP market - also a clean slate (and remove the baggage associated with Cavill's Superman). For better or worse, they are simply going after the money (which is normal for studios anyways).



Keep in mind, Clark is not actually Caucasian. He's an Alien, so his skin color could be whatever an author wants it to be. No one is saying anything about race bending actual Caucasian characters (like say Bruce Wayne). Same with Cyborg - because he's actually a Black American.

Take Martian Manhunter for instance. He's an Alien as well (though unlike Clark, he has freedom to change his appearance and skin color at will). In either case, character's race isn't important, you can still capture the character's traits while changing their race.

Because it is getting out of hand. Didn't they make Mr Potato Head gender neutral the other day? Come on, that is ridiculous.

You can't go changing one to suit the other. How about we redo Alien and make Ripley a female? How about we make Steel (John Henry Irons) white? No, because if you did people would kick up a stink about it and if you think they wouldn't I have a bridge I wish to sell you.

You can't go fixing the inequality of white characters vs minorities by swapping out one to appease the other. Actually doing so is quite disrespectful. You want more minority heroes? MAKE them. But then people go, "oh, but he is not as famous as this guy". So what? Any character can work provided the care and thought is there.

Yes, Superman is a alien. But the character (Clark Kent) has been depicted as white from the beginning and has been that way for 83 years. I am sorry, but the very image of him is ingrained in the public conscious as that. Calvin Ellis was created to be african-american from the get-go. So it would be better if they use him.

We are going to just have to agree to disagree on this.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Difference there though is Cyborg and Jon Stewart were created with the purpose of adding more representation to comics at the time. Superman, and really most white heroes weren’t really created to add more white male representation. Take these two Stan Lee and Jack Kirby’s creations like Black Panther and Reed Richards. Technically, one could make the same argument that you could race-bend both of these characters; Black Panther could be changed into being a white king from a fictional European country as opposed to being a black King from a fictional African nation and Reed Richards could be changed to an black scientist as opposed to a white scientist. However, it doesn’t take a genius to know which between the two changes of these characters would be much more inherently problematic. T’Challa(as the case with virtually every other non-white POC character) was specifically created with the purpose of bringing more representation to a homogeneously white comic book world. While Reed, the white character, as well as almost virtually every white comic character was not created with that specific intention in mind.

Now there are certain white characters that race-swapping their race might be problematic(Jewish characters like Magneto and Ben Grimm come to mind) but as a whole I don’t think it’s unsettling to alter White characters race, especially when racial/ethnic representation has never been a reason for most of their creations in the first place. That being said, I would prefer if Clark remain an alien looking coincidentally like a Caucasian human instead of coindentally looking like a black human. That’s my personal preference, though but I don’t think it’ll be the end of the world if Clark Kent doesn’t look like a white person again for the gazillionlith time.

This. Summed up my thoughts perfectly.

[green_garnish]

You can't go changing one to suit the other. How about we redo Alien and make Ripley a female?

I suspect that's a change a lot of people would be comfortable with.

[Somecrazyaussie]

The only problem with making him Calvin and not Clark is the wider audience doesn't know who Clavin is. Will they think that WB played a trick on them, calling this guy Superman who isn't the character they know from the other movies, TV and the comics they read as kids?

His origin is similar enough. It really depends on the writing, film maker and actors they get. Miles wasn't widely known before ItSV and no one had a problem accepting that. DC does have a advantage in that they are going with a multiverse concept with multiple Batmen and so forth. So Calvin should be fine. I don't think people would feel cheated once they see him in action.

[choptop]

I suspect that's a change a lot of people would be comfortable with.

Lol was somecrazy jokeing or does he really think Ripley is a guy?

[choptop]

Abrams can direct. But, as far as writing and approaching a story go, keep him far, far away. Everything he does is derivative of other people's ideas or just outright rips off other films. TFA was just ANH with a new coat of paint. TRoS was just reheated RoTJ. Star Trek Into Darkness.... ugh that makes my blood boil.

He is a good cinematographer writering and directing not so much.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Miles Morales was in a cartoon voiced by Donald Glover

Miles had at least 5-7 trades in stores. Softcover and hardcover version. I think there was even a library version.

Miles had anywhere from 2-5 action figures in stores.

Miles was SEEN on Spider-Man merchandise including kid's valentines, Easter baskets, greeting cards and so on.

Miles has a NEW YORK TIMES BEST SELLING Novel in stores.

Miles's costume was already being made into cosplay and Halloween costumes (mainly in Japan)

Miles was already in the public's eye before that movie was greenlighted.

Ah, there’s no denying Miles had bigger media exposure than either Cal or Val, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be successful. Filmmakers can take liberties with the character they’re adapting on film to make a more palatable for a mainstream audience. Val and Cal don’t have exactly have the strongest source material? Okay, fine. Reinvent the character and improve upon the character. Blade was successful, even though most audiences didn’t know Blade, and frankly he was basically a C-list character who only appeared in a few episodes of the 90’s Spider-Man character before Wesley Snipe started put on the black sunglasses and killing vampires in the role. So I think a Val or Cal film can succeed. It only depends on how it’s executed.

[Somecrazyaussie]

Miles Morales was in a cartoon voiced by Donald Glover

Miles had at least 5-7 trades in stores. Softcover and hardcover version. I think there was even a library version.

Miles had anywhere from 2-5 action figures in stores.

Miles was SEEN on Spider-Man merchandise including kid's valentines, Easter baskets, greeting cards and so on.

Miles has a NEW YORK TIMES BEST SELLING Novel in stores.

Miles's costume was already being made into cosplay and Halloween costumes (mainly in Japan)

Miles was already in the public's eye before that movie was greenlighted.




The ISSUE is these studios do NOT want to write those CHECKS in the first place. Nor greenlight those movies.

See SOME studios do NOT have an issue if a movie with a white hero (Green Lantern, Lone Ranger, John Carter or Constantine) being a FLOP.

Those flops will NOT stop pitches for Aquaman, Shazam, Green Arrow, Superman or whoever is white.

If it's Steel or Catwoman-they bomb it's we can't do Black Panther or Cap Marvel or Static.

Steel and Catwoman cost a combine $117 million and made $83 million (82 for Catwoman and 1 million for Steel). $34 million loss (not counting promo and merchandise)

John Carter costed $250 and made $284. $34 million loss. 2 movies that cost less lost the same amount as one movie with a higher budget.

Its the folks in charge that tend to be the issue.

Well, Steel and Catwoman were ****. No getting around that lol.

John Carter lost far more than that. The problem there was the title. You see a listing for a movie and it says, "John Carter", you think "meh" . If it had been "John Carter: Warlord of Mars" you immediately think "cool. A space fantasy/sci-fi"

[Menacer]

Frankly it makes no difference if black Superman is Clark Kent or Val Zod or Kal el. Zero

I mean flash movie has 2 white bruces waynes/batmans meeting... one old one young, Keaton and Affleck.


Barry from the movies has already met Barry on the tv cw.

If black Clark meets white Clark it just makes for a trippy Multiverse experience.

He can be Val, or Kal. Zero difference as long as we got a great story.

Black, chinese, indian, white whatever

The multiverse has always explained it all