‘Superman’ Reboot Being Produced By JJ Abrams With Ta-Nehisi Coates Writing

[skyvolt2000]

I don't want to continue this debate since I had LONG ones when Miles was introduced and then when the Josh Trak 2015 Fantastic Four movie was released because people couldn't wrap their heads around Johnny being black, Sue being white and them being adopted brother and sister (instead of blood siblings). BTW that Fantastic Four movie SUCKED but it had nothing to do with Johnny being black and him and Sue being adopted siblings. Like I mentioned, there is nothing wrong with a black superman from another universe and keeping the main line Clark Kent in tack. If can't get over the race change even for an elesworlds story, that says more about you than anything else.

The thing is the race aspect ends up being a two edge WEAPON.

1) "The movie failed because he was BLACK" Which leads into racism claims.

2) "The movie failed because of reasons A-Z" Which tends to be the legit reason.

However number 2 gets BURIED because of number one. Because to some being BLACK is a barrier to block any legit critique. See Coates Black Panther run.

Bendis does some of the SAME stuff Coates does and get BURIED around here. As does Scott Lobdell, Rob Liefield, Robert V, Donny Cates, Tyninion, Johns (sometimes), Gail Simone and others.
Say that about Coates-you hate black people. You hate black women. You are a self hater (if you are black).

Then on the flip side being a black lead in a movie that fails. Get WEAPONIZED. How many times has Steel or Catwoman been used as a weapon by folks including Marvel employees to dismiss conversations about black lead movies?

[Amadeus Arkham]

Eh, I'm against a black Clark Kent - I'm fine with a black Superman like Val-Zod or Calvin Ellis.

Understandable, Clark’s an icon who’s been permanently ingrained physically as a white man(or at least looking like one, even if he technically isn’t actually one). I understand your dislike of the idea on principle but I’d be very endlessly fascinated with a re-envisioning this classic character through a radically new lens. A black Superman story would touch on themes and issues that I’m sure many would not feel comfortable in a traditional Superman they want. I will never change your mind, but information about this project is so scarce(we don’t even know if they will be using Clark in this movie) that I find myself reserving judgement until I know more. If it is Clark, that would intrigue me more than Val or Cal. Simply because his mythos is the more intriguing, and presenting it through a black experience is certainly a choice. Not going to change your mind on this, but even it is Clark and they actually go with through with the black Superman movie let’s wait until we get more information. You’re free to dislike the idea and race-swapping, but I’m not going to write off the movie until I see a trailer and decide once and for if it’s for me or not.

I've pretended no such thing - I personally dislike them equally, true, but I never said the were morally/culturally equivalent. Do not make that assumption of me, please.

Well, it kind of feels like you do. At least by implication with the wording of your posts. I understand not liking race-swapping in both cases but I have a hard time disliking the race swapping of a white comic character as much of whitewashing/cultural erasing the representation of an underrepresented group. Sure you might not have said the two were morally equivalent explicitly, but that’s how your post came across to me.

[CliffHanger2]

The thing is the race aspect ends up being a two edge WEAPON.

1) "The movie failed because he was BLACK" Which leads into racism claims.

2) "The movie failed because of reasons A-Z" Which tends to be the legit reason.

However number 2 gets BURIED because of number one. Because to some being BLACK is a barrier to block any legit critique. See Coates Black Panther run.

Bendis does some of the SAME stuff Coates does and get BURIED around here. As does Scott Lobdell, Rob Liefield, Robert V, Donny Cates, Tyninion, Johns (sometimes), Gail Simone and others.
Say that about Coates-you hate black people. You hate black women. You are a self hater (if you are black).

Then on the flip side being a black lead in a movie that fails. Get WEAPONIZED. How many times has Steel or Catwoman been used as a weapon by folks including Marvel employees to dismiss conversations about black lead movies?

Eh, I don't recall Coates BP run being popular around here or elsewhere tbh. Add to that black super hero films have a pretty good track record especially after BP. If it's Ellis or Val Zod I doubt the mainstream will be turned off. If anything black super hero movies of late have been "too successful" Which ironically seems to studios stalling. MCU's cool down on the BP sequel and heck even Hancock made so much money they can't even do a sequel. Or Snipes building a successful franchise and getting effed over on Trinity. Success isn't necessarily rewarded when it comes to black super hero movies.

Aside from that Coates needs to be reigned in,course corrected and check marked before this thing even starts. Cuz if his BP run is any indication he will majorly eff this up. He''ll do for Ellis what Rian Johnson did for Luke SkyWalker. At least SW fans can live in the past all we'll have is a bad memory.

[Vakanai]

Understandable, Clark’s an icon who’s been permanently ingrained physically as a white man(or at least looking like one, even if he technically isn’t actually one). I understand your dislike of the idea on principle but I’d be very endlessly fascinated with a re-envisioning this classic character through a radically new lens. A black Superman story would touch on themes and issues that I’m sure many would not feel comfortable in a traditional Superman they want. I will never change your mind, but information about this project is so scarce(we don’t even know if they will be using Clark in this movie) that I find myself reserving judgement until I know more. If it is Clark, that would intrigue me more than Val or Cal. Simply because his mythos is the more intriguing, and presenting it through a black experience is certainly a choice. Not going to change your mind on this, but even it is Clark and they actually go with through with the black Superman movie let’s wait until we get more information. You’re free to dislike the idea and race-swapping, but I’m not going to write off the movie until I see a trailer and decide once and for if it’s for me or not.

To each their own, but it just doesn't interest me. If it happens I'll watch it and try to judge it on it's own merits, but I really hope it doesn't happen.

Well, it kind of feels like you do. At least by implication with the wording of your posts. I understand not liking race-swapping in both cases but I have a hard time disliking the race swapping of a white comic character as much of whitewashing/cultural erasing the representation of an underrepresented group. Sure you might not have said the two were morally equivalent explicitly, but that’s how your post came across to me.

Of course it feels like I do - I hate both of them an awful lot. If you hate two things, you're not going to go out of the way in a discussion to say that you understand that one is culturally/morally worse than another, you're just going to bitch about them both. Doesn't mean you don't understand the difference, but why the hell would that ever be made obvious by reading posts? All that should be coming through is disdain for the ideas, not all the nuances that are there. This is a fan debate, not an educated in depth discussion. It'd be downright weird if I were to post in that manner. I realize, logically, that they are not equivalent morally. But that's not a priority for me - I don't want either to be done and hate them both with a passion, even with that understanding.

[green_garnish]

I really have no interest in what color Superman's skin is. Or Clark Kent's. Or whether that color is different than Ma And Pa Kent's, or Lois'. It's freaking Superman, the best of all men.

But.... here's my personal ism. Like all isms, it's not rational, cannot be logically explained, and is fundamentally flawed. But...

I don't think I could handle Superman with an accent, like Russion or Chinese or Brazilian, even if his appearance matched the accent. And yes, I know Americans have an accent. Like I said, it's not rational. It's an ism. To that extent, I am ism-ist, and I need to be better.

[The_Lurk]

When I'm in the mood for heavy handed activism with a Superhero touch I watch Black Lightning. Its a good action show.

I neither care nor need Black Lightning fused with Superman; wake me up when they are interested in doing the real deal or better; interested in doing actual original black characters instead of borderlining racist stereotype raceswaps.

[green_garnish]

When I'm in the mood for heavy handed activism with a Superhero touch I watch Black Lightning. Its a good action show.

I neither care nor need Black Lightning fused with Superman; wake me up when they are interested in doing the real deal or better; interested in doing actual original black characters instead of borderlining racist stereotype raceswaps.

What makes you convinced that black Superman will automatically mean heavy handed activism?

[Brian B]

This movie could be mind blowingly great. I’m not convinced Coates is the right guy to write the final, shooting script, but letting him play with the character could really be a game changer. I hope they’re willing to think past some traditional casting, maybe go for someone outside Hollywood’s, New York’s or London’s actors, maybe go for a rapper, which has worked for a number of decent shows and movies. I could see Meek Mills or Lil Durk pulling it off, or maybe even a really big name like Drake — the guy is certainly earnest enough to do the Clark Kent aspect.

[Common Writer]

When I'm in the mood for heavy handed activism with a Superhero touch I watch Black Lightning. Its a good action show.

I neither care nor need Black Lightning fused with Superman; wake me up when they are interested in doing the real deal or better; interested in doing actual original black characters instead of borderlining racist stereotype raceswaps.

Has it ever occurred to you that a Black Superman movie could open up the door for other black superhero movies?

[green_garnish]

Has it ever occurred to you that a Black Superman movie could open up the door for other black superhero movies?

I can't help but wonder about the rage of a Justice League movie featuring 5 black people and one white person.

[LordMikel]

Has it ever occurred to you that a Black Superman movie could open up the door for other black superhero movies?

If Black Panther didn't do the trick, I don't think a Black Superman would do any better.

[green_garnish]

If Black Panther didn't do the trick, I don't think a Black Superman would do any better.

If there is a black Superman, do you suppose Black Panther might have had something to do with it, and that black Superman might move the target even closer?

[Triple J]

Hmm, Superman was a champion of the oppressed in the early years, so activism is very much "in character" (also keep in mind, that's how Siegel and Shuster wrote it...can't get much more in character than that!).

[LordMikel]

If there is a black Superman, do you suppose Black Panther might have had something to do with it, and that black Superman might move the target even closer?

That wasn't the argument being made. So I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

[Anthony W]

In the jungle while hunting the King Wakanda finds a white baby , the King raise the baby as his son. It is fiction, yes I think white character could be black panther but I explain Asian or Latino version would be better because you could adapt it differently.

Isn't this the origin of BP's adopted older brother Hunter? That isn't a good example because xenophobic Wakandans viewed him with fear and suspicion.