Val-Zod Appreciation 2021

[Robanker]

Val needs a direction to really land with readers because right now, everything he has is essentially tied to another character people like more and he has nothing that sets him apart aside from a pretty good costume. More than anything else, I think he'd benefit from an Elseworlds story focusing on what makes him different from Clark and Calvin. Strip away E2 and everything involved and build him from the ground up.

I don't think Power Girl would be an accessory just because she's appearing in a Superman film, same goes for Supergirl appearing in the Flash movie of all places. Appearing in a movie where you aren't the #1 star does not make one an accessory, for many people Wonder Woman was the best part of BvS and it doesn't mean that Power Girl can't get her own movie later. She is a Superman family character, Val's love interest, and very important to his story and the development of his character.

She is a character of 50 years with many stories and publications and you relegated her to a prop in Val's story. That's why a lot of PG fans don't like Val and how DC threw PG at him to give him a story. There was no buildup, she just appeared in his orbit and now she was his girlfriend. It was offensive to people who liked PG beforehand. She is not his love interest much like Black Canary is not Oliver Queen's love interest. They share a relationship, but each are their own IP. When Dinah (or PG) are treated as just someone's girlfriend is when those characters are their least interesting, and frankly it's reductive of them as characters in their own right.

That run did a major disservice to Power Girl (the entire New 52 did) to try and prop up Val. Throughout her tenure in the New 52, Power Girl was either used as arm candy for a male hero or just spinning plates because they didn't really know what to do with her. From being an accessory to male heroes to turning her into Supergirl proper, that era was destructive to Karen in ways her fans understand but perhaps people who don't much know about her don't care.

I'm sorry, but I can't respect anyone who tries to hold up any New 52 developments for Power Girl as a fan of her character given who she had been prior and how they had to mangle her personality and character in order to be the character we got. Gone was the outspoken, sassy woman who refused to be seen as "Superwoman, Supergirl or woman Superman or Superman's cousin." Gone was the woman who refused to be someone's plus one. Gone was the woman who didn't just go weak in the knees and get turned into arm candy as a status symbol. Gone was the self-actualized woman we came to love. I don't think anyone minded her getting into a relationship, but both she entered during New 52 seemed to be more about "look, he's with Power Girl" than anything because Karen got nothing out of the deal. Both times, it was to benefit the male hero. Were the character real, she'd be writhing under her own skin at being turned into an accessory.

Could the relationship have worked? Maybe, had they actually shown us why those two had chemistry instead of a flashback that they totes knew each other and wham, they love each other. That relationship was stillborn and trying to prop up Val by shitting on Karen's identity isn't going to endear anyone to him that respects women. Val needs his own story, not to crib off of other more popular characters.

It's a moot point though, it's not going to be Val Zod in the movie, it'll be Obama...er Calvin Elllis is it? Not the best with remembering or spelling names I'm afraid, never have been.

Calvin's got a lot more going for him than being based on Obama. That's akin to saying "Moses-- er, Clark Kent, right?" Come on, man.

[achilles]

Val needs a direction to really land with readers because right now, everything he has is essentially tied to another character people like more and he has nothing that sets him apart aside from a pretty good costume. More than anything else, I think he'd benefit from an Elseworlds story focusing on what makes him different from Clark and Calvin. Strip away E2 and everything involved and build him from the ground up.



She is a character of 50 years with many stories and publications and you relegated her to a prop in Val's story. That's why a lot of PG fans don't like Val and how DC threw PG at him to give him a story. There was no buildup, she just appeared in his orbit and now she was his girlfriend. It was offensive to people who liked PG beforehand. She is not his love interest much like Black Canary is not Oliver Queen's love interest. They share a relationship, but each are their own IP. When Dinah (or PG) are treated as just someone's girlfriend is when those characters are their least interesting, and frankly it's reductive of them as characters in their own right.

That run did a major disservice to Power Girl (the entire New 52 did) to try and prop up Val. Throughout her tenure in the New 52, Power Girl was either used as arm candy for a male hero or just spinning plates because they didn't really know what to do with her. From being an accessory to male heroes to turning her into Supergirl proper, that era was destructive to Karen in ways her fans understand but perhaps people who don't much know about her don't care.

I'm sorry, but I can't respect anyone who tries to hold up any New 52 developments for Power Girl as a fan of her character given who she had been prior and how they had to mangle her personality and character in order to be the character we got. Gone was the outspoken, sassy woman who refused to be seen as "Superwoman, Supergirl or woman Superman or Superman's cousin." Gone was the woman who refused to be someone's plus one. Gone was the woman who didn't just go weak in the knees and get turned into arm candy as a status symbol. Gone was the self-actualized woman we came to love. I don't think anyone minded her getting into a relationship, but both she entered during New 52 seemed to be more about "look, he's with Power Girl" than anything because Karen got nothing out of the deal. Both times, it was to benefit the male hero. Were the character real, she'd be writhing under her own skin at being turned into an accessory.

Could the relationship have worked? Maybe, had they actually shown us why those two had chemistry instead of a flashback that they totes knew each other and wham, they love each other. That relationship was stillborn and trying to prop up Val by shitting on Karen's identity isn't going to endear anyone to him that respects women. Val needs his own story, not to crib off of other more popular characters.



Calvin's got a lot more going for him than being based on Obama. That's akin to saying "Moses-- er, Clark Kent, right?" Come on, man.

I don't care one way or the other about the character. But honestly, he's just not going to have a movie that succeeds in a big way when WB can't even get that together with the Superman most people care or know about. But if WB really does want to do that, great, have at it. But I'd recommend they get a little bit better at things like characterization, plot, actors, giving us decent bad guys...and....remember to smile, face the camera, and fly off into space at the end of the movie. Also, maybe stop hiring people with baggage like Whedon, they don't need to be pissing people off right now.

I also think that any superhero movies are probably not going to make the mad money they used to; those days are gone...too much superhero stuff is out there----it's just hard to find a fresh take. Which means you have to be even better these days than you had to back at peak superhero movies during the heyday of the MCU. Plus WB itself seems to interfere entirely too much in the wrong ways with their directors, and it seems also not enough in other ways. It's weird, but though I like the DCU comic book universe better than the Marvel comic book universe....it's the other way around with the movies. That's because Marvel executed better IMO.

But that's an extended digression. The movie Superman will be Elllis rather than Val Zod. About the nu 52, Val Zod, and the other stuff, you are right. Val Zod can work, but he needs character development. A mini perhaps to gauge interest. But.....I would rather even in the comics he stays away from PG. They had their chance to make that work, but did nothing at all to even try, just putting them together with no real story reason other than proximity.

[Black Superman]

Saying that another superhero is a prop because they are appearing in a movie not their own is an opinion, not fact. I said that she is Val-Zod's love interest because this is a Val-Zod thread, and an appreciation one at that. I don't understand all of these assumptions being made about me just because I stated that they dated. You are reading into my statement what you want, and that is obviously not accurate. If you don't like their relationship, fine, but don't insinuate and project all these negative things about others just because you personally don't like it. I see now why I rarely use the forums here.

[Celgress]

Saying that another superhero is a prop because they are appearing in a movie not their own is an opinion, not fact. I said that she is Val-Zod's love interest because this is a Val-Zod thread, and an appreciation one at that. I don't understand all of these assumptions being made about me just because I stated that they dated. You are reading into my statement what you want, and that is obviously not accurate. If you don't like their relationship, fine, but don't insinuate and project all these negative things about others just because you personally don't like it. I see now why I rarely use the forums here.

One thing I do find annoying about comic book fan forums is people telling a person that something they enjoy is trash typically via an academic article-length rebuttal (often complete with references lol) to a concise statement. I find this behavior especially jarring in appreciation threads and in very poor taste. If I detest a character (Damian Wayne for example) or concept I avoid the appreciation thread devoted to said character or concept not stir the pot.

[Black Superman]

My main point with thread was that Val-Zod is my favorite Superman and he didn't have one, so I decided to create it. Unfortunately, I feel that I should have left it for someone else to eventually do because this type of environment is not for me. I didn't think that defending Power Girl being in the movie was gonna be a whole thing, people don't have to agree but respect isn't much to ask. I'm just gonna go back to lurking the Superman/Wonder Woman threads and leaving, lol.

[dornwolf]

I think some of the points people make about really giving the character an overhaul are kind of right. Earth-2 in general could use a redo. Dan Abnett tried and he got the plane to land safely but overall it’s an honest mess. If they did a mini similar to what they did with the Crime syndicate you could start over with Val being the Earths superman right out of the gate or strip it all the way back to when Robinson was on and go from there.

[Robanker]

I think some of the points people make about really giving the character an overhaul are kind of right. Earth-2 in general could use a redo. Dan Abnett tried and he got the plane to land safely but overall it’s an honest mess. If they did a mini similar to what they did with the Crime syndicate you could start over with Val being the Earths superman right out of the gate or strip it all the way back to when Robinson was on and go from there.

I think Val would benefit most from a book not unlike Supergirl: Being Super where he gets to be unique and set up his own status quo. Being tied to Earth-2 requires an alternate Earth go to complete **** just to start his story and for Clark to die in the opening. It's too many hurdles to jump. If they adapt him, it'd largely be original ideas and I think that's telling. Had Val been in issue one and allowed to be his own Superman, I think he'd have gotten a far better reception. As it is, he's just another piece of a mishandled run. Can he work? Sure. I just don't think anything in Earth-2 is going to help him do so. Frankly, I don't know a single character that book did any favors.

His one real hook right now is being a pacifist. That really should be the angle addressed to set him apart from other Supermen who like the idea of peace but solve most things with their fists. Yes, the genre dictates that their words not solve enough problems, but I think having Val be the exception to that rule could be interesting in itself.

[achilles]

I think Val would benefit most from a book not unlike Supergirl: Being Super where he gets to be unique and set up his own status quo. Being tied to Earth-2 requires an alternate Earth go to complete **** just to start his story and for Clark to die in the opening. It's too many hurdles to jump. If they adapt him, it'd largely be original ideas and I think that's telling. Had Val been in issue one and allowed to be his own Superman, I think he'd have gotten a far better reception. As it is, he's just another piece of a mishandled run. Can he work? Sure. I just don't think anything in Earth-2 is going to help him do so. Frankly, I don't know a single character that book did any favors.

His one real hook right now is being a pacifist. That really should be the angle addressed to set him apart from other Supermen who like the idea of peace but solve most things with their fists. Yes, the genre dictates that their words not solve enough problems, but I think having Val be the exception to that rule could be interesting in itself.

Well, it's an interesting hook, and a pretty unique one. I don't know how you can practically implement that in a genre that pretty much lives on fights and intense conflict, but if someone can do it, it might be interesting. The character could be a good project for someone willing to give him a deep think and figure out a way to do that. It didn't work in the nu52, largely because he seemed....useless for a Kryptonian. In the big Darkseid setpiece, he was just a punching bag who couldn't do a thing against Darkseid. It made him...boring, since they didn't even do anything interesting with that.

That said, I hated everything about the nu52 Earth 2. Well, not every single thing but overall and in most respects it was IMO terrible. If they now want to lift any element out of that mess and put it back into publication, I'd prefer they simply pretend he's a new character, and none of that stuff happened---the whole Earth 2 part of the nu52 was overly long, far too long for the story it told, it was overly grim and dark with precious few victories of any sort for the heroes, and frankly made them all rather unlikable IMO, or at the least bland and uninteresting which is almost worse. It would also help the character of Val-Zod, allowing the writer to build him from the ground. If they want to do his bit with pacifism, then they get to try it with a clean slate, without having the nu52 stuff complicate it.

[Shockingjustice]

I like Val-Zod. Kind of wish he was Supermans Miles Morales.

[Shockingjustice]

By Jorge Jiminez

[Celgress]

Thanks for posting those Shockingjustice, sweet.

[leo619]

My main point with thread was that Val-Zod is my favorite Superman and he didn't have one, so I decided to create it. Unfortunately, I feel that I should have left it for someone else to eventually do because this type of environment is not for me. I didn't think that defending Power Girl being in the movie was gonna be a whole thing, people don't have to agree but respect isn't much to ask. I'm just gonna go back to lurking the Superman/Wonder Woman threads and leaving, lol.

Right, we may have to start reporting people soon because some of the posts seems like individuals who don't even like val zod, which is against the rules for an appreciation thread. If you don't like val zod, there's no reason for you to be here. Keep the posts here dedicated towards those who actually like the character.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

The interesting thing is he's a son of Zod that became a pacifist. So maybe having him be a teenager that comes to Earth and deal with the culture shock. Maybe he becomes a pacifist as a way to adjust to his new powers? He decides to stop fights than start them?

He'd work more on his own Earth, whether you reboot Earth 2 or move him to another one. Prime Earth is a bit crowded but maybe you could put him as one of the Kryptonians living on Zod's New Krypton? You could play him as the White Sheep of Zod's family.

[Thor-Ul]

If DC chooses to reset earth 2 to make it something similar to what it was pre crisis, it could be interesting to keep Val Zod as the next Supeman.

[SuperX]

The interesting thing is he's a son of Zod that became a pacifist. So maybe having him be a teenager that comes to Earth and deal with the culture shock. Maybe he becomes a pacifist as a way to adjust to his new powers? He decides to stop fights than start them?

He'd work more on his own Earth, whether you reboot Earth 2 or move him to another one. Prime Earth is a bit crowded but maybe you could put him as one of the Kryptonians living on Zod's New Krypton? You could play him as the White Sheep of Zod's family.

And these are a few reasons why I like Val. If any of you watch the Invincible show on Amazon prime the last episode had mark completely reject his father's way, and I can absolutely see Val doing thst with his family.

Val has layers,, and he is unique, and he isnt a obvious character created in someone reals image.