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  1. #1
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    Default Are Most MCU Directors Good Outside of the MCU Films?

    I'm wanting to know what you guys think because I'm noticing that for the non-mcu films that some of the directors work isn't the best. For example the Russo Brothers films haven't been very good imo. I am aware that there are directors such as James Gunn and Ryan Coogler who can do good work outside of MCU films but with so many directors, I'm curious to know who is good outside of the mcu films and whose films should be avoided.

    Just to clarify, when new films are announced, I have found that based on the director it can be assessed early on if a film will be good or not (most times). I tend to avoid films where I dont think the director is good due to past films (like M. Night Shyamalan) being bad or the artistic style isn't for me.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComicJunkie21 View Post
    I'm wanting to know what you guys think because I'm noticing that for the non-mcu films that some of the directors work isn't the best. For example the Russo Brothers films haven't been very good imo. I am aware that there are directors such as James Gunn and Ryan Coogler who can do good work outside of MCU films but with so many directors, I'm curious to know who is good outside of the mcu films and whose films should be avoided.

    Just to clarify, when new films are announced, I have found that based on the director it can be assessed early on if a film will be good or not (most times). I tend to avoid films where I dont think the director is good due to past films (like M. Night Shyamalan) being bad or the artistic style isn't for me.
    Did You get this from the comic book movie forum, this is where I saw the discussion start yesterday, I am guessing its about the new film with The Russos and Tom Holland.

    The thing is I don't know. this is one question that has been brought up before but never really discussed thoroughly.

    you have to realise that MCU directors function more as model directors, they are modelling a film for a studio that has a very tight way of doing things, we cannot really judge an mcu director talents or sucess based on an MCU movie because those movies dont really say much about the director's strengths or weakness.

    This is a new era for the comic book movie industry. it's not 30 years ago, you know Tim Burton movies beyond Batman 89 and Batman Returns or Chris Nolan, Guillermo del Toro, or Bryan Singer. Most of these directors, I can smell all their movies from miles away. they all sort of stick to the same story telling style, cinematography, directing and even VFX. I mean X2 and Superman Returns had more in common than X2 and X3 and Nolan is becoming all too familiar with films like Tenet, which to some has now become a weakness for him after past movies like Inception and The Prestige.

    For some of this directors who have done MCU movies usually under the watchful eye of Kevin Feige and the Disney committee, there is not much to say or judge. However Many of them are still quite young and will do other films. give it 10 years before you measure their success and talent as film makers.

    Guillermo del Toro came in as a young director with Blade 2 and went on to make the shape of water, a very worthy artistic Oscar best picture and director win, however I think his talent and success from Blade and Hellboy set the grounds for the shape of water, but you can tell, it is the same director who had come a very long way. Hopefully some MCU directors will be as lucky as Del Toro even if they don't have the same foundation with MCU comic book movies.
    Last edited by Castle; 02-28-2021 at 04:48 PM.

  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Probably a partial list:
    Jon Favreau, yes
    Joe Johnston, yes
    Kenneth Branaugh, yes
    Shane Black, yes
    James Gunn, yes
    Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck,yes
    Ryan Googler, yes
    Taika Waititi,yes
    Russo Bros, yes,
    Scott Dickerson, yes
    Alan Taylor, yes
    Josh Whedon, yes

    All have directed good movies or TV shows.
    There came a time when the Old Gods died! The Brave died with the Cunning! The Noble perished locked in battle with unleashed Evil! It was the last day for them! An ancient era was passing in fiery holocaust!

  4. #4
    【Cool And Good】 The Gold Stream's Avatar
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    i think shane black's pictures outside of the mcu are better

  5. #5
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    A whole thread because The Russos made one film with bad reviews? This seems silly.

    Taika Waititi, Ryan Coogler, and Chloe Zhou are some of the hottest directors out there at the moment. Destin Creton is also coming off a critical success in Just Mercy. That's without getting into Favrou,Shane Black,Peyton Reed, Joe Johnston,Derrickson etc...

    Who's the list of directors who haven't had success outside the MCU? Even the Russos have produced some successfull stuff and have Netflix biggest film ever coming in the future ( The grays or something. Suppsoe to have an insane budget. Stars Evans and Gosling)

  6. #6
    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    A whole thread because The Russos made one film with bad reviews? This seems silly.

    Taika Waititi, Ryan Coogler, and Chloe Zhou are some of the hottest directors out there at the moment. Destin Creton is also coming off a critical success in Just Mercy. That's without getting into Favrou,Shane Black,Peyton Reed, Joe Johnston,Derrickson etc...

    Who's the list of directors who haven't had success outside the MCU? Even the Russos have produced some successfull stuff and have Netflix biggest film ever coming in the future ( The grays or something. Suppsoe to have an insane budget. Stars Evans and Gosling)
    The Gray Man. And they also produced and wrote the big Netflix hit with Helmsworth, Extradition.

    I guess we are suppose to think they suck because of You, Me and Dupree.
    Last edited by Kirby101; 02-28-2021 at 03:25 PM.
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    Want to make clear that I'm not attacking any of these directors, I'm actually just curios to know if their films are good outside of the MCU.

    Yes I did think about this topic due to the Russo Brothers Cherry film. I don't judge directors by one bad film as that's unfair, it'd be like saying someone sucks at math because they made one bad grade on an assignment. However, I also saw 21 bridges and thought that wasn't a very good movie either. They don't have a big portfolio outside the MCU, but the films that I have seen aren't great and lack basic storytelling elements that I would've thought they had developed as big as they are now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Did You get this from the comic book movie forum, this is where I saw the discussion start yesterday, I am guessing its about the new film with The Russos and Tom Holland.

    The thing is I don't know. this is one question that has been brought up before but never really discussed thoroughly.

    you have to realise that MCU directors function more as model directors, they are modelling a film for a studio that has a very tight way of doing things, we cannot really judge an mcu director talents or sucess based on an MCU movie because those movies dont really say much about the director's strengths or weakness.

    This is a new era for the comic book movie industry. it's not 30 years ago, you know Tim Burton movies beyond Batman 89 and Batman Returns or Chris Nolan, Guillermo del Toro, or Bryan Singer. Most of these directors, I can smell all their movies from miles away. they all sort of stick to the same story telling style, cinematography, directing and even VFX. I mean X2 and Superman Returns had more in common than X2 and X3 and Nolan is becoming all too familiar with films like Tenet, which to some has now become a weakness for him after past movies like Inception and The Prestige.

    For some of this directors who have done MCU movies usually under the watchful eye of Kevin Feige and the Disney committee, there is not much to say or judge. However Many of them are still quite young and will do other films. give it 10 years before you measure their success and talent as film makers.

    Guillermo del Toro came in as a young director with Blade 2 and went on to make the shape of water, a very worthy artistic Oscar best picture and director win, however I think his talent and success from Blade and Hellboy set the grounds for the shape of water, but you can tell, it is the same director who had come a very long way. Hopefully some MCU directors will be as lucky as Del Toro even if they don't have the same foundation with MCU comic book movies.
    This may very well be it. I guess I never took into account how young many of these guys are. Seeing how successful they were with the MCU films I thought they were farther along in their development as directors. With that said, it does seem like some of them will have bright futures if they can develop their own style and make consistently good or interesting content.

  9. #9
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComicJunkie21 View Post
    This may very well be it. I guess I never took into account how young many of these guys are. Seeing how successful they were with the MCU films I thought they were farther along in their development as directors. With that said, it does seem like some of them will have bright futures if they can develop their own style and make consistently good or interesting content.
    Most if them aren't young. John Watts I guess had only done small movies prior. Most of the director just needed they're big break to really blow up. James Gunn, Taika Waititi, Russos etc.. are good examples. They weren't new at all but just weren't the in demand directors they are now. Waititi took the success from Ragnarok and went and got an Oscar winning film made in Jojo Rabbit. Russos produced a bunch of Movies and got a bunch more coming(Aren't they also producing/Directing The Live action Disney Hercules film? Think I heard that). Anyway the vast majority of directors who worked in the MCU have been highly successful outside of it. Also they Hired Chloe Zhoa before anyone really knew who she was to make Eternals. They hire lesser knowns but they hire more established directors.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Most if them aren't young. John Watts I guess had only done small movies prior. Most of the director just needed they're big break to really blow up. James Gunn, Taika Waititi, Russos etc.. are good examples. They weren't new at all but just weren't the in demand directors they are now. Waititi took the success from Ragnarok and went and got an Oscar winning film made in Jojo Rabbit. Russos produced a bunch of Movies and got a bunch more coming(Aren't they also producing/Directing The Live action Disney Hercules film? Think I heard that). Anyway the vast majority of directors who worked in the MCU have been highly successful outside of it. Also they Hired Chloe Zhoa before anyone really knew who she was to make Eternals. They hire lesser knowns but they hire more established directors.
    Most of them are quite young and have yet to garner a collection of body of work, additionally judging their mcu and non mcu movies makes no sense and has no balance. I think this may even be a first for comic book directors.

    MCU movies have the hype , the loyal fans base and the Disney well oiled machine to drive the success. Feige does not really need any of the directors he hires to make his films successful. the ones he hires all have to meet the standard formula which is to succeed with making light fun humor comic films, whose story board and technical house was already set up by Disney 2 years before a director even commits to directs. When these directors are doing their own thing away from MCU, they are mostly all on their own.

    Whoever went into Cherry, which is the recent movie with The Russos and Tom Holland and expected it to be Endgame/Infinity Wars would clearly not know much about re-using the same actors or directing or even screen-writing, this is not the same as Christopher Nolan and Michael Caine making a movie together again and roughly getting the exact same results (Inception, The Dark Knight trilogy, Interstellar, The Prestige.)

    Love , like or hate Nolan movies, the truth is that we know who and what Nolan movies are all about and We know how he uses Michael Caine in them. Most MCU directors don't have the artistic freedom that Nolan did when he made his Batman films, making other films, is for MCU directors to rediscover themselves as talented and potentially successfully film makers.
    Last edited by Castle; 03-01-2021 at 04:37 AM.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Most of the directors of the MCU movies are generally mediocre directors and film-makers.

    Ryan Coogler is about the only one who made a real masterpiece and genuinely great film of the bunch, when he made FRUITVALE STATION, which is his best film. His Rocky sequel, CREED, is also a very good movie (and was Tessa Thompson's breakout role).

    Some have made one or two good movies. James Gunn is also talented and capable and he made the most stylishly designed MCU movies with GOTG, but I wouldn't say they are great movies in any sense. Peyton Reed made a couple of decent comedies like Down with Love, but otherwise undistinguished. Taika Waititi likewise made cool genre movies in NZ, Kenneth Branagh made some watchable stuff in the late 80s and early 90s. Jon Favreau is a better character actor than a director, even if he has had success there (a bit like Ron Howard, talented and amusing character actor with a great voice as in Arrested Development, but a director of generally very mediocre movies).

    In general, the MCU directors (to the extent you can call them directors*) are mostly figures who have done a movie or two, started out in indies, or low-key genre movies, and have a facility for directing actors and getting performances but otherwise not film-makers with a dominant film-making style.

    * It's a fact that every MCU movie is concieved in pre-visualization long before directors actually sign on and start work. The pre-visualization stuff is so extensive that it basically hijacks the role that directors are supposed to have in visualizing and designing the movie, being downgraded from the powers that a movie director used to have or is supposed to have, to the level of directing a TV episode.


    Rian Johnson directed episodes in Breaking Bad and he directed The Last Jedi and Knives Out, but most people would consider the theatrical motion picture releases as a better indication of his style than the TV work he did, right?

    So I am not sure if anyone on the MCU even qualifies as a director.

  12. #12
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Most of the directors of the MCU movies are generally mediocre directors and film-makers.

    Ryan Coogler is about the only one who made a real masterpiece and genuinely great film of the bunch, when he made FRUITVALE STATION, which is his best film. His Rocky sequel, CREED, is also a very good movie (and was Tessa Thompson's breakout role).

    Some have made one or two good movies. James Gunn is also talented and capable and he made the most stylishly designed MCU movies with GOTG, but I wouldn't say they are great movies in any sense. Peyton Reed made a couple of decent comedies like Down with Love, but otherwise undistinguished. Taika Waititi likewise made cool genre movies in NZ, Kenneth Branagh made some watchable stuff in the late 80s and early 90s. Jon Favreau is a better character actor than a director, even if he has had success there (a bit like Ron Howard, talented and amusing character actor with a great voice as in Arrested Development, but a director of generally very mediocre movies).

    In general, the MCU directors (to the extent you can call them directors*) are mostly figures who have done a movie or two, started out in indies, or low-key genre movies, and have a facility for directing actors and getting performances but otherwise not film-makers with a dominant film-making style.

    * It's a fact that every MCU movie is concieved in pre-visualization long before directors actually sign on and start work. The pre-visualization stuff is so extensive that it basically hijacks the role that directors are supposed to have in visualizing and designing the movie, being downgraded from the powers that a movie director used to have or is supposed to have, to the level of directing a TV episode.


    Rian Johnson directed episodes in Breaking Bad and he directed The Last Jedi and Knives Out, but most people would consider the theatrical motion picture releases as a better indication of his style than the TV work he did, right?

    So I am not sure if anyone on the MCU even qualifies as a director
    .
    I think this may be a little harsh. the last part.

    Your video, I have talked about this, how their movies have already been primally built and the directors just cross the I's and T's

    However I don't think Jon Favreau is a mediocre film maker. I don't truly know most of the rest since I have not seen most of their films, Ryan Coogler is the one with the potential even if MCU just forced him to remake the first Thor film with Black Panther, but Creed shows he is talented on his own. To have an iconic veteran actor as Silvester Stallone pick him as a first timer to direct Creed and have him deliver that Stallone won a golden globe and got a best supporting actor nomination, speaks of Coolger as one of the best upcoming directors. period.

    I know Black Panther was heavily criticised by fans for the CGI but I put that more on Fiege and marvel productions than Coogler

    And speaking of Ryan, he is forming a partnership with Michael B Jordan, so I think fans can look forward to that and see that partnership grow maybe more than Russos and Holland.

    I think all MCU directors do qualify as directors even if they do not do any heavy lifting in bringing their movies to life as other past marvel directors: Sam Raimi, Bryan Singer, Ang Lee or Guillermo del Toro did but they still qualify as directors.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    I think this may be a little harsh. the last part.

    Your video, I have talked about this, how their movies have already been primally built and the directors just cross the I's and T's
    Well directing is supposed to be more than crossing I's and T's, that's fine in TV, necessary even but not in cinema.

    I think all MCU directors do qualify as directors even if they do not do any heavy lifting in bringing their movies to life as other past marvel directors: Sam Raimi, Bryan Singer, Ang Lee or Guillermo del Toro did but they still qualify as directors.
    In the sense people are directors on a TV show like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones, sure they're directors. In the larger sense in which movies are supposed to be an expression of a director's vision and style, they aren't directors.

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    Ultimate Member Kirby101's Avatar
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    I disagree that Ron Howard has only made mediocre movies. He's not Spielberg, but he has made a few very, very good movies.
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    Extraordinary Member Cyke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Anyway the vast majority of directors who worked in the MCU have been highly successful outside of it. Also they Hired Chloe Zhoa before anyone really knew who she was to make Eternals. They hire lesser knowns but they hire more established directors.
    I'm glad you brought her up first. She was hired for Eternals, but became last night's breakout star with the Golden Globes and among the most critically acclaimed films in a rather weird year.

    I'm hard pressed to think of someone going from indie-director to big budget blockbuster director so very quickly; even Spielberg and Lucas had to build their blockbusters up when they were young, whereas Zhao is being given a *LOT* of funding and responsibility by a major corporation. Whatever Marvel sees in Chloe Zhao, they saw it in her before the Hollywood Foreign Press did.

    While previously I was ho-hum about the Eternals movie just as a concept, Chloe Zhao's work this year fills me with hope. Then again, I had almost no interest in watching Guardians of the Galaxy, and the strength of James Gunn's direction turned that around for me in no time flat.

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