Undoing One More Day - Consequences?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Over a decade since OMD and we're still waiting for the prophecy...

The major problem for BND is that it has nothing to justify itself.

When Spider-Man graduated high school:
-- Steve Ditko whipped up the Master Planner Saga -- ASM#31-33

When Spider-Man got married
-- Kraven's Last Hunt.

When OMD happened we got: *crickets chirping*

There never was a story that justified the new status-quo or make the case that it,
a) Deserved to be told.
b) Could only be told without the marriage.

[TheCape]

Insomnaic's Spider-Man game sold over 20 million units. Why is it being so undervalued in this thread?

(I'd also like to add that they cast Zoe Kravitz to play MJ in Into The Spider-Verse.)

Damn, i didn't know that it sold that well.

[Kevinroc]

Damn, i didn't know that it sold that well.

The last official number from Sony was over 13 million units in August 2019. The LinkedIn profile from one of the Playstation people said 20 million+ sales late last year.

https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020...million_copies

[PCN24454]

Over a decade since OMD and we're still waiting for the prophecy...

There was never going to be a prophecy. End of discussion.

[Ursalink]

The more I think of it, the more I think undoing OMD could give us a status quo similar to "Renew Your Vows". For example, Mary Jane with stable Spider-Powers and Iron Spider's armor, it would give her more independance than Spinneret sharing Peter's powers. Peter and MJ together could also have saved Parker Industries, and MJ could use part of the company for her carreer as an actress. Finally, with the help of Peter's clones (Ben and Kaine), he could find a way to literally be at several places at once.

[Scott Taylor]

There never was a story that justified the new status-quo or make the case that it,
a) Deserved to be told.
b) Could only be told without the marriage.

So true. They came out of the gate with a Freak story. And the best stuff of the BND era was about on par with the middle of the road stuff in the Clone Saga era.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

The major problem for BND is that it has nothing to justify itself.

When Spider-Man graduated high school:
-- Steve Ditko whipped up the Master Planner Saga -- ASM#31-33

When Spider-Man got married
-- Kraven's Last Hunt.

When OMD happened we got: *crickets chirping*

There never was a story that justified the new status-quo or make the case that it,
a) Deserved to be told.
b) Could only be told without the marriage.

Not that I think BND can ever be fully justified, but even a great cap-off story prior to BND could have alleviated a lot of the anger towards it. The best time for a reset like that (assuming we had to) would have been after Dark Reign at the start of the Heroic Age. It never made much sense that Dark Reign is in so many ways a direct sequel to Civil War and the conclusion to the Superhuman Registration Act saga, but that one of the main characters from that saga lost his memory halfway. It would be like if one of the Main MCU Avengers lost their memories and was practically reset to a new character in the middle of Phase 2.

Keeping the pre-OMD Peter around during Dark Reign would have also been an interesting status quo for Spider-Man himself. The Avengers are gone, and Norman has become the law while Peter is now the symbol of resistance (Ellis' Thunderbolts established that guys like Steel Spider do what they do because of Peter going on TV and leaking Iron Man's Negative Zone prison to the world). Peter then takes down Norman, the event triggers the start of Marvel's 'Heroic Age' branding of that time, and Spider-Man is soft-rebooted but it would have been at least a decent conclusion to 1962-2008 Spider-Man.

I remember DC facing similar criticisms at the time with the New 52. Many Batfans said they would have been more content with the reboot had DC waited a lil longer and let Morrison finish his Batman run. Who knows, maybe something like that could have helped Marvel market their "new" Spider-Man.

[Huntsman Spider]

Not that I think BND can ever be fully justified, but even a great cap-off story prior to BND could have alleviated a lot of the anger towards it. The best time for a reset like that (assuming we had to) would have been after Dark Reign at the start of the Heroic Age. It never made much sense that Dark Reign is in so many ways a direct sequel to Civil War and the conclusion to the Superhuman Registration Act saga, but that one of the main characters from that saga lost his memory halfway. It would be like if one of the Main MCU Avengers lost their memories and was practically reset to a new character in the middle of Phase 2.

Keeping the pre-OMD Peter around during Dark Reign would have also been an interesting status quo for Spider-Man himself. The Avengers are gone, and Norman has become the law while Peter is now the symbol of resistance (Ellis' Thunderbolts established that guys like Steel Spider do what they do because of Peter going on TV and leaking Iron Man's Negative Zone prison to the world). Peter then takes down Norman, the event triggers the start of Marvel's 'Heroic Age' branding of that time, and Spider-Man is soft-rebooted but it would have been at least a decent conclusion to 1962-2008 Spider-Man.

I remember DC facing similar criticisms at the time with the New 52. Many Batfans said they would have been more content with the reboot had DC waited a lil longer and let Morrison finish his Batman run. Who knows, maybe something like that could have helped Marvel market their "new" Spider-Man.

That could have made it somewhat more palatable, especially if "pre-OMD Spider-Man" at least got to go out on a relative high note like saving the Marvel Universe from Norman Osborn, though at the cost of losing Aunt May and/or Mary Jane, which could serve as the catalyst for an OMD-style "reset" that would, in Peter's mind, at least give Aunt May and/or Mary Jane a second chance.

[NC_Yankee]

Not that I think BND can ever be fully justified, but even a great cap-off story prior to BND could have alleviated a lot of the anger towards it. The best time for a reset like that (assuming we had to) would have been after Dark Reign at the start of the Heroic Age. It never made much sense that Dark Reign is in so many ways a direct sequel to Civil War and the conclusion to the Superhuman Registration Act saga, but that one of the main characters from that saga lost his memory halfway. It would be like if one of the Main MCU Avengers lost their memories and was practically reset to a new character in the middle of Phase 2.

Keeping the pre-OMD Peter around during Dark Reign would have also been an interesting status quo for Spider-Man himself. The Avengers are gone, and Norman has become the law while Peter is now the symbol of resistance (Ellis' Thunderbolts established that guys like Steel Spider do what they do because of Peter going on TV and leaking Iron Man's Negative Zone prison to the world). Peter then takes down Norman, the event triggers the start of Marvel's 'Heroic Age' branding of that time, and Spider-Man is soft-rebooted but it would have been at least a decent conclusion to 1962-2008 Spider-Man.

I remember DC facing similar criticisms at the time with the New 52. Many Batfans said they would have been more content with the reboot had DC waited a lil longer and let Morrison finish his Batman run. Who knows, maybe something like that could have helped Marvel market their "new" Spider-Man.

I do not think anything ( except possibly good stories) would have lessened the anger at OMD. Why? After that came a decade of mostly bad stories from Dan Slott. OMD opened the door to stories that were as far removed from Spider-Man as possible: Silk and Superior to name two. Plus the reviled Queenpin. I can go on.

[Mister Mets]

Given the most recent events in "Amazing Spider-Man", especially those involving the mysterious Kindred, I want to believe Marvel is in his way to finally undone the whole One More Day's stuff and bring back the Spider-Marriage between Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson. As fan of Spider-Man, nothing would make me happier. I think it's about time they finally let Peter Parker get "old", because the role of a "young teen Spider-Man" is already covered by Miles Morales. But as much as I wish this to be true, I can't avoid thinking about the consequences.

I mean, back when One More Day happens, they show us how the Wedding never happened; but besides that, it would appear as if the story of the 20 years of Spider-Marriage stayed the same. That was a complete nonsense, as without Mary Jane in scene, many past adventures of Spider-Man would have been differents. The only changes brought by OMD were:
+ Everyone forgot about Peter Parker's identity as Spider-Man, except Mary Jane and the Jackal.
+ Harry Osborn was mysteriously resurrected.
+ Peter lost the powers of The Other and returned to the mechanical webshooters.

So, with all this, how things would change if One More Day is finally undone and the Spider-Marriage restored? I have a list of potential consequences; many are good, but others are really bad. Let's see the first ones:
+ The first, and probably the saddest part, it would be the death of Aunt May. If this happens, then Peter's threat about killing Kingpin the moment Aunt May dies COULD happen.
+ In theory, Peter's identity would be public again, as considering Civil War, Peter would have to be on the run continuously.
+ If Civil War wasn't bad enough, Spider-Man having his identity in the public during Norman Osborn's Dark Reign would have been a real nightmare.
+ Finally, during the Grim Hunt, if the Kravens would have attacked Mary Jane as part of their revenge against Spider-Man, I'm afraid he could have crossed the line in retaliation.

As you can see, the first consequences of undoing One More Day would be catastrophic. I don't see Spider-Man's character surviving all this with his identity being revealed. The only way I can see Spider-Man could survive this would be if, by before the Civil War even started, Peter, Mary Jane (and maybe Aunt May), could make a "time skip" by the Web of Life and Destiny. (Similar to what Ock as Superior Spider-Man did during Spider-Verse). Skipping this whole thing COULD be the only way for Peter's family to survive.

Continuing with more consequences of undoing One More Day:
+ "Big Time" would have worked even better for Peter with Mary Jane at his side.
+ "Spider-Island": With Mary Jane having spent more time alongside Peter, she could have actually get stable Spider-Powers without risking turning into a Were-Spider. I would have liked that.
+ "Superior": With Mary Jane, Doc Ock's original plot would have failed; so Peter didn't lose his identity. Still, the Superior Spider-Man would still be "necessary", so Otto will become this with the Jackal's cloning technology.
+ "Parker Industries": With Mary Jane at his side, I want to believe Peter could have kept this company. It would have actually worked, as we saw in "Infinity Warps", with alternative versions of Peter and MJ leading Parker Industries together.
+ "Spider-Verse" and "Spider-Gedoon": I think it would have been interesting to see these stories with a Spider-Powered Mary Jane. (Yes, I know Spider-Geddon had Spinneret from RYV).
+ "Red Goblin": A Spider-Powered Mary Jane, along with Parker Industries' resources, would have surely made easier to beat the Red Goblin, and maybe Flash Thompson/Anti-Venom would still be alive.

Well, what do you think?

It would seem unnecessarily messy to try to create a new continuity where Peter and MJ were married, but most of the events still happened.

If you want to fix OMD, the easiest solution is to have Peter and MJ remember the events of the story. That can be a reason for them to get married (although they currently could be willing to do it without being aware of the pre-OMD continuity.) It doesn't require reconciling Peter & MJ's marriage with romantic relationships Peter had since One More Day, and prior to reconciling with MJ.

[Mister Mets]

Too much work for stuff that doesn't need that much work.

Here's the thing, after OMD, there hasn't been any lasting or impactful story in continuity. You could read OMD, not read a single issue of BND or Slott's run, and start from Spencer's first issue, and you wouldn't have missed a thing. There are in fact several readers on CBR and elsewhere who expressed that sentiment, who came back to read Spider-Man after Spencer took over. So to be honest, there's just not any real work needed to be done.
-- In the case of Doctor Octopus, he's back to being a villain after Gage's series.
-- Felicia's Queenpin stuff was explained and dealt with by Spencer and Mackay.
-- As far as Spider-Verse goes, that entire event revolves around your familiarity and knowledge of different versions of Spider-Man and continuity stuff in 616 doesn't really matter.

My recommendation is "what can be done in a single 32 page issue"? The stuff you say can't be done in 1 issue, whereas having Peter-MJ marry again and remember the deal and original continuity, that can be done in a single issue, with option and room to pad out in an Annual or One-Shot if need be.

Pretty much every recent list of notable Spider-Man stories includes material after One More Day.

The Newsarama/Gamesradar list includes the Gauntlet.
https://www.gamesradar.com/best-spider-man-stories/

CBR's list includes Shed, Spider-Verse, Gauntlet, Spider Island and No One Dies.
https://www.cbr.com/greatest-spider-man-stories/

IGN's list includes Spider-Verse. Goblin Nation, Cracked Hourglass, and The Gauntlet.
https://www.ign.com/articles/the-25-...er-man-stories

Polygon's list includes Cracked Hourglass, Spider-Verse, Spider-Men and the first arc of the Ms. Marvel Marvel Team-Up.
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2019/...-comics-marvel

There is at the very least some disagreement about whether readers who haven't picked up the book since One More Day have missed anything worthwhile.

Impact on continuity is more complicated, but plenty has happened. Peter Parker discovered that he has a sister, who has appeared in multiple runs. The events of Superior Spider-Man are pretty much certain to inform encounters with Dr. Octopus. Alternate universes have become a key part of the mythos, with Peter Parker becoming rather close to Miles and Spider-Gwen. Flash Thompson became Venom. Jonah knows Peter's secret identity and has become a big Spider-Man booster.

[PCN24454]

I do not think anything ( except possibly good stories) would have lessened the anger at OMD. Why? After that came a decade of mostly bad stories from Dan Slott. OMD opened the door to stories that were as far removed from Spider-Man as possible: Silk and Superior to name two. Plus the reviled Queenpin. I can go on.

Nothing would've lessened the anger. That's why it's not worth caring about.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Pretty much every recent list of notable Spider-Man stories includes material after One More Day.

What does that have anything to do with my post? I was advocating against a full-scale retcon removing these stories from continuity. My personal feelings about this era aside, I would never call for a retcon that removed it from continuity, if only out of fairness to people who like these stories.

The Newsarama/Gamesradar list includes the Gauntlet.
https://www.gamesradar.com/best-spider-man-stories/

An entry prefaced by this gem:
"For much of the post-'Brand New Day' era, the Spider-Man books were getting a bad rep for moving away from the elements that fans had grown to love over the years."

Essentially saying that "The Gauntlet" was the best of a bad lot. Real glowing recommendation and validation of the era right there, lol.

CBR's list includes Shed, Spider-Verse, Gauntlet, Spider Island and No One Dies.
https://www.cbr.com/greatest-spider-man-stories/

Not in the Top 10. They also include Maximum Carnage.

IGN's list includes Spider-Verse. Goblin Nation, Cracked Hourglass, and The Gauntlet.
https://www.ign.com/articles/the-25-...er-man-stories

Also not in the Top 10.

Polygon's list includes Cracked Hourglass, Spider-Verse, Spider-Men and the first arc of the Ms. Marvel Marvel Team-Up.
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2019/...-comics-marvel

An unranked personal list by a writer offering her personal tastes which aren't at all intended to be a representative survey and reading-list.

There is at the very least some disagreement about whether readers who haven't picked up the book since One More Day have missed anything worthwhile.

I only ever meant in continuity terms, not in quality terms. I will say that "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man" isn't essential for reading to understand the continuity of Spider-Man but that doesn't mean I think it's a lesser story just for that alone.

Impact on continuity is more complicated, but plenty has happened.

Peter Parker discovered that he has a sister, who has appeared in multiple runs.

"Multiple?" She appeared in the Mark Waid OGN, and then wasn't mentioned until Zdarsky's Spectacular run, and then showed up in Spencer's title for a few issues. Over a ten year period, I'd call that "multiple" in the sense of "more than one" but not in the sense that she's Miles Morales-big. She hasn't even been introduced to Aunt May and confirmed as Peter's sister to her, i.e. crossing the final threshold.

The events of Superior Spider-Man are pretty much certain to inform encounters with Dr. Octopus.

No more than the Master-Planner Saga or the Sinister Six or so on. Especially since Otto is back to villain and has lost his memories of Peter's identity and other stuff about him.

Alternate universes have become a key part of the mythos, with Peter Parker becoming rather close to Miles and Spider-Gwen.

The Miles thing happened with Bendis in SPIDER-MEN and SECRET WARS'2015.

Flash Thompson became Venom.

When he comes back from the dead, he won't be.

Jonah knows Peter's secret identity and has become a big Spider-Man booster.

For now.

[Jman27]

feels weird caring about a continuity in which writers pick and choose what to keep and what not to keep or include. Ala this current avengers run

[CrimsonEchidna]

The major problem for BND is that it has nothing to justify itself.

When Spider-Man graduated high school:
-- Steve Ditko whipped up the Master Planner Saga -- ASM#31-33

When Spider-Man got married
-- Kraven's Last Hunt.

When OMD happened we got: *crickets chirping*

There never was a story that justified the new status-quo or make the case that it,
a) Deserved to be told.
b) Could only be told without the marriage.

And you know, not to beat a dead horse but I also explicitly remember Didio saying one of his reasons for wanting a single Spider-Man again because writers couldn't do stories like "Peter going through temptation with Felicia" or any other potential love interests.

But then, through the decade of BND through Slott's run they seemingly cashed all their chips in on Carlie Cooper being the new leading lady. And then Slott kind of threw in the towel completely because of the negative backlash. Because the stuff with Bobbi was only going through the motions and he wrote Lian Tang out of the book rather quickly.

I feel like the only real "payoff" there was that one One Night Stand with Felicia but even that came at the price of hitting the reset button on all of Felicia's character development.