View Poll Results: If we get a Black Superman, what would you prefer?

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  • Race-bent Clark Kent/Kal-El

    10 13.16%
  • Existing black Superman (Calvin Ellis, Val Zod etc.)

    57 75.00%
  • Completely original character

    9 11.84%
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  1. #76
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    You haven’t been paying attention if you think the discussion regarding culture, sexuality, race, or economics hasn’t played a role in all forms of media. Especially with regards to comics and/or adaptions of comics.
    That's not a culture war, that's called representation.

  2. #77
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    That's not a culture war, that's called representation.
    Which is a part of the culture war lmao. Look I donít care enough to argue the finer points with you, so letís just end this here.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  3. #78
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Which is a part of the culture war lmao. Look I don’t care enough to argue the finer points with you, so let’s just end this here.
    It really just isn't that deep. Clark Kent is gonna stick around regardless. There's nothing to "war" over since nothing is being taken away.

  4. #79
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    There's literally no benefit to a racebent Clark Kent other than people patting themselves on the back while pre-existing black Supermen get substantially less traction as a result.
    This basically, for me at least, a race bent Clark Kent isn't something to be celebrated but rather proof that WB/DC were too lazy or worse see no financial benefit in promoting a pre-existing Black Superman.
    Can't speak for anyone else but if it does turn out to be the case of a race bent CK, then i am not watching much less paying for it. I am already displeased they are rebooting Superman and not getting MoS 2, this potential play to target a certain demographic is making me feel even more so.

  5. #80
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    Yes, Miles Morales has gotten plenty of traction with Peter Parker around. That's already proven to not matter.
    They had to kill Peter Parker in both the Ultimate comics and in the movie for him to take up the mantle.

  6. #81
    Mighty Member Hulkout42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post
    I'd prefer an ICON movie.
    Well, i hear Static Shock is getting a movie so maybe that's his way in?

  7. #82
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    They had to kill Peter Parker in both the Ultimate comics and in the movie for him to take up the mantle.
    Peter Parker in the Earth-616 main continuity never died. Peter B. Parker was present all throughout Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse. Miles Morales joined the main continuity as Spider-Man alongside Peter Parker more than half a decade ago.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    That's not a culture war, that's called representation.
    To some, to others it’s an assault on Western civilization. A black Superman is gonna spark all types of conversations that will take a political dimension and be used as proxies for far right and far left shit slinging. AKA it’ll become a part of the culture war like Star Wars and Black Panther did. Doesn’t mean it can’t rise above the controversy, that’s obviously what WB is banking on.

  9. #84

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    I want to see Calvin Ellis. Make it happen. Promote it severely. Make merchandise. People will come to this movie.

  10. #85
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    To some, to others it’s an assault on Western civilization.
    Nothing is as bad as Conner Kent. That's an assault on the American way itself.

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    They had to kill Peter Parker in both the Ultimate comics and in the movie for him to take up the mantle.
    In the same movie they also managed to put in 6 other spidermans without overshadowing Miles' story arc.
    december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?

  12. #87
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Existing black Superman character, with an original character a far away dim second, and a racebent Clark so antiethical to my preference that should it happen my Bizarro twin would be wondering where that screaming that sounds like him is coming from.

    For the record, my Bizarro twin would not be rooting for a black Superman, because in Bizzaro world Snyder's DCEU was a huge success and MoS 2 and 3 would be things already.
    Last edited by Vakanai; 03-01-2021 at 09:04 PM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    DC doesn't seem to share your sentiment as the development of The Flash TV show was the entire reason Wally West was made black in the New 52.
    Black Wally West (or Wallace West as I believe he's called now) is a textbook example of race-bending gone horribly wrong...to the extent that they needed to un-racebend him and bring back the OG Wally. The only reason Wallace exists as a distinct character now is a) the conceit of how Rebirth continuity was supposed to work (i.e. New 52 serving as the base, with erased people and events being 'restored'), and b) to stave off accusations of racism (because once you race-bend a character, reversing that decision might be seen as whitewashing).

    The Flash TV show on the other hand did a much better job with race-bending the West family...again, maybe because they started with race-bending Iris West and not Wally. It was simply a question of casting, not making a political statement. So by the time they cast Wally, it was just natural that he'd be black.

    It wasn't a question of race-bending Wally and then being like "Yup! Wally West will now be black forever!", which is literally what one of the writers back then said in an interview!

    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    To some, to others it’s an assault on Western civilization. A black Superman is gonna spark all types of conversations that will take a political dimension and be used as proxies for far right and far left shit slinging. AKA it’ll become a part of the culture war like Star Wars and Black Panther did. Doesn’t mean it can’t rise above the controversy, that’s obviously what WB is banking on.
    Exactly.

    Frankly it'll be a lot worse than Star Wars and Black Panther.

    With those, any reasonable (and non-racist) person could accept those movies (or not) based on their artistic and commercial merits. In fact, I don't even think Black Panther as a film or character ever got much hate. The new Star Wars movie did, and I don't think it was only to do with a political agenda, but a lot of fans genuienly being against the direction in which the sequel trilogy went (especially the JJ Abrams vs. Rian Johnson stuff).

    When it comes to race-bending Superman (and by Superman, I mean Clark Kent) though, its not just a question of increasing representation. Its changing the image of one of the pillars of Western, and even global, pop-culture, in tune with a political trend. It will be perceived as erasing the original racial identity of a character and his image in order to make a political point. Agree or disagree with it, the idea of white people being 'erased' as some kind of perceived 'retribution' for their historical actions is the source of a lot of socio-political conflict and commentary in arts and business today, and let's just say that it's something which not just the racists or the far-right, but even a lot of perfectly reasonable people (albeit, not of the progressive left) would be uncomfortable with on some level.

    Black Panther sparked a political discussion too, but it was a positive one, and today its legitimately regarded as a cultural moment. And its arguably risen above political commentary to be regarded as a great film in its own right. A Superman film with a race-bent Clark Kent will never rise above the political discource, most of which will be highly negative, if not toxic.

  14. #89
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Black Wally West (or Wallace West as I believe he's called now) is a textbook example of race-bending gone horribly wrong...to the extent that they needed to un-racebend him and bring back the OG Wally. The only reason Wallace exists as a distinct character now is a) the conceit of how Rebirth continuity was supposed to work (i.e. New 52 serving as the base, with erased people and events being 'restored'), and b) to stave off accusations of racism (because once you race-bend a character, reversing that decision might be seen as whitewashing).

    The Flash TV show on the other hand did a much better job with race-bending the West family...again, maybe because they started with race-bending Iris West and not Wally. It was simply a question of casting, not making a political statement. So by the time they cast Wally, it was just natural that he'd be black.

    It wasn't a question of race-bending Wally and then being like "Yup! Wally West will now be black forever!", which is literally what one of the writers back then said in an interview!



    Exactly.

    Frankly it'll be a lot worse than Star Wars and Black Panther.

    With those, any reasonable (and non-racist) person could accept those movies (or not) based on their artistic and commercial merits. In fact, I don't even think Black Panther as a film or character ever got much hate. The new Star Wars movie did, and I don't think it was only to do with a political agenda, but a lot of fans genuienly being against the direction in which the sequel trilogy went (especially the JJ Abrams vs. Rian Johnson stuff).

    When it comes to race-bending Superman (and by Superman, I mean Clark Kent) though, its not just a question of increasing representation. Its changing the image of one of the pillars of Western, and even global, pop-culture, in tune with a political trend. It will be perceived as erasing the original racial identity of a character and his image in order to make a political point. Agree or disagree with it, the idea of white people being 'erased' as some kind of perceived 'retribution' for their historical actions is the source of a lot of socio-political conflict and commentary in arts and business today, and let's just say that it's something which not just the racists or the far-right, but even a lot of perfectly reasonable people (albeit, not of the progressive left) would be uncomfortable with on some level.

    Black Panther sparked a political discussion too, but it was a positive one, and today its legitimately regarded as a cultural moment. And its arguably risen above political commentary to be regarded as a great film in its own right. A Superman film with a race-bent Clark Kent will never rise above the political discource, most of which will be highly negative, if not toxic.
    It very much sounds like you're projecting. Your entire "white people fear being erased" thing falls apart because a white Superman has a live-action show on air. And, frankly, most people aren't overly paranoid to that absurd degree. No one should be losing their minds over a black Kryptonian being adapted after over 70 years of a white Clark Kent onscreen.
    Last edited by Superboy-Prime; 03-01-2021 at 11:27 PM.

  15. #90
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    Definitely not Calvin Ellis. Val-Zod would be great though.

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