View Poll Results: If we get a Black Superman, what would you prefer?

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  • Race-bent Clark Kent/Kal-El

    10 13.16%
  • Existing black Superman (Calvin Ellis, Val Zod etc.)

    57 75.00%
  • Completely original character

    9 11.84%
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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member
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    Default If we get a Black Superman in the Coates/Abrams reboot, what would you prefer?

    While literally nothing has been confirmed about the new project produced by JJ Abrams and written by Ta-Nehisi Coates, there seems to be a consensus on the forum that there's a higher than likely possibility that we'll be getting a black Superman if this goes through.

    Much of the debate has been around whether this means a race-bent Clark Kent or one of the existing alternate black Superman (i.e. Calvin Ellis, Val Zod).

    Thought it might be instructive to see which way we're leaning at this point while considering this (as yet purely hypothetical) situation...

    I personally would prefer the Calvin Ellis President Superman.

    EDIT: Just to clarify for the poll options...by "completely original character" I mean a new black version of Superman, not a new black Superman-like character who won't have the name.
    Last edited by bat39; 03-01-2021 at 02:10 AM.

  2. #2
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Completely original character.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  3. #3
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    There's literally no benefit to a racebent Clark Kent other than people patting themselves on the back while pre-existing black Supermen get substantially less traction as a result.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    There's literally no benefit to a racebent Clark Kent other than people patting themselves on the back while pre-existing black Supermen get substantially less traction as a result.
    Is a black superman going to get traction with Clark Kent superman around?

  5. #5
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Is a black superman going to get traction with Clark Kent superman around?
    Yes, Miles Morales has gotten plenty of traction with Peter Parker around. That's already proven to not matter.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Calvin Ellis. Full stop.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Is a black superman going to get traction with Clark Kent superman around?
    Well, unless they cease publishing/producing everything to do with Clark Kent Superman, he'll always be 'around'.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superboy-Prime View Post
    Yes, Miles Morales has gotten plenty of traction with Peter Parker around. That's already proven to not matter.
    For clarity, They killed Peter, So Miles could get all of the shine in UU. In the 616 Peter is A. and Miles is B. The point is there is a benefit of racebent Superman and it is the character wouldn't have to be subordinate to another character or seen as second rate character which is a huge benefit for the character. It might not be the best move you can't say there is no benefit, I see people say Peter Parker is only real spiderman so there is huge benefit to him being Clark Kent and their legit argument for you should probably only have side kick level character around with a main character stuff like Hal Jordan and John Stewart or Wally and Barry hasn't work well being similar levels.

    I vote for a new character I think composite of Val and Calvin Ellis would work better
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 03-01-2021 at 02:20 AM.

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Calvin is who I want.
    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Is a black superman going to get traction with Clark Kent superman around?
    Depends on what they do. If they racebend Clark Kent then no. That take will exist for however many movies and then be done, like the takes where Catwoman is black, or Maoma Aquaman being Polynesian, or what theyíre doing with Tim Drake over on Titans. The character of ďClark KentĒ will be white, this will just be a different Elseworld take on the ďdefaultĒ. Superman is too iconic and popular a character to be changed permanently, in contrast to something like the Eternals which are becoming more diverse because nobody cares about the Eternals.

    If they go with a non-Clark Kent Superman whether one of the pre-existing ones or an OC, then maybe. It really depends. The problem is then, how do you use that take elsewhere, like the comics? Spider-Man is a street level character in a city already overriden with street level heroes. Peter and Miles can both coexist without it making a big impact. Superman is different. The character is incredibly powerful, Metropolis barely has enough threats to keep Clark busy, two is overkill. So where does this new take fit in? Because Superman is t just the powers and the suit: Itís the Justice League, the Batman dynamic, the Luthor dynamic, etc. And Clark already has his son and cousin primed to be successors, so unlike Miles any new black Kryptonian wonít be first in line to inherit the titles without major asspulls.

    I canít really see this Coates take spreading outside the movie. Iím sure someone will use it, but the general audience already has a very clear idea of who Superman is and what heís supposed to be (even if the pop culture perception kinda sucks and isnít that true to the character).
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    I voted for Calvin or Val.
    Race bending Clark is self sabotage and creating an original character leaves the existing Supermen of colour to rot. They might be Clark kent but they are established characters who fans are already familiar with. This gives them an edge over a new character.

    This is exciting news. I'm almost starting to get optimistic that DC/WB REALLY is in this for the long haul. That they are truly invested in showcasing their diverse library of characters

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    I voted for Calvin or Val.
    Race bending Clark is self sabotage and creating an original character leaves the existing Supermen of colour to rot. They might be Clark kent but they are established characters who fans are already familiar with. This gives them an edge over a new character.

    This is exciting news. I'm almost starting to get optimistic that DC/WB REALLY is in this for the long haul. That they are truly invested in showcasing their diverse library of characters
    This is the exact opposite of what you’re saying you’re excited about. They’re completely uninterested in showcasing their library of existing diverse characters, which is why they’re racebending Superman over a John Stewart, Vixen, Icon, or Cyborg movie. It’s a cheap safe way to try to ride the current social wave without taking a major risk.

    Edit: Just remembered they are pursuing a Jaime Blue Beetle movie so if that actually happens then kudos. But the graveyard is littered with DC projects that never happened (Deathstroke, Lobo, Nightwing, etc). But otherwise? WB/DC isn’t doing squat.
    Last edited by Vordan; 03-01-2021 at 02:36 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    This is the exact opposite of what you’re saying you’re excited about. They’re completely uninterested in showcasing their library of existing diverse characters, which is why they’re racebending Superman over a John Stewart, Vixen, Icon, or Cyborg movie. It’s a cheap safe way to try to ride the current social wave without taking a major risk.
    I agree with you that John Stewart is long overdue a movie (and I'm saying this not in the interests of diversity, but because I'm a huge fan from the JLU days and I genuienly feel you can tell a compelling story with him).

    But I'd argue that Calvin Ellis, while not a major character in the large scheme of things, can also count as one of DC's "diverse" characters who could be given a chance. Yes, it is a cynical attempt to cash in on the idea of a 'black Superman', but one that actually has some artistic merit...unlike racebending Clark Kent which'd purely be a decision informed by contemporary politics.

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    I agree with you that John Stewart is long overdue a movie (and I'm saying this not in the interests of diversity, but because I'm a huge fan from the JLU days and I genuienly feel you can tell a compelling story with him).

    But I'd argue that Calvin Ellis, while not a major character in the large scheme of things, can also count as one of DC's "diverse" characters who could be given a chance. Yes, it is a cynical attempt to cash in on the idea of a 'black Superman', but one that actually has some artistic merit...unlike racebending Clark Kent which'd purely be a decision informed by contemporary politics.
    I’m bitter in part because Vixen, one of my favs at DC, is still not getting any real love or attention. I’ve been hoping that with the recent pivot to the DCAU nostalgia would include her given she was an important member (and it would add another woman to the League which is never a bad thing). She’s been given bit roles in stuff like Future State and small stories in the Truth & Justice anthology, and I’ve enjoyed all that, but she’s a character like Black Panther that I think could explode in popularity if she got a movie or a cartoon (CW Seed doesn’t count to me) or anything really.

    I like Calvin. If he gets picked and the movie reviews well (forgive me for not trusting WB with Superman on the film side lmao), I’ll go see it. But I also can’t help but worry that this will lead to WB ignoring their OC Black characters which they already have a bad habit of doing. Especially since a lot of those (Vixen, Steel, and Mr. Terrific to name names) are favorites of mine. Right rant over, you guys go back to the thread topic.
    For when my rants on the forums just arenít enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Iím bitter in part because Vixen, one of my favs at DC, is still not getting any real love or attention. Iíve been hoping that with the recent pivot to the DCAU nostalgia would include her given she was an important member (and it would add another woman to the League which is never a bad thing). Sheís been given bit roles in stuff like Future State and small stories in the Truth & Justice anthology, and Iíve enjoyed all that, but sheís a character like Black Panther that I think could explode in popularity if she got a movie or a cartoon or anything really.

    I like Calvin. If he gets picked and the movie reviews well (forgive me for not trusting WB with Superman on the film side lmao), Iíll go see it. But I also canít help but worry that this will lead to WB ignoring their OC Black characters which they already have a bad habit of doing. Right rant over, you guys go back to the thread topic.
    They are already ignoring those characters, For example they aren't recasting Cyborg. They are using Tim Drake and not say Guardian on the Titans. I don't have the answer but this is how my mind works

    - I would prefer the original characters like John Stewart, Vixen, Mr Terrific and Black Lighting to shine but DC doesn't seem interested in those characters
    - DC seem want to use popular but secondary main characters like Aquaman, Hawkman, Catwoman to be representation in the movies they are obviously people who object that but me I settle for that because..
    - If they don't do those we get nothing and that is how you sit around for years with no movies or characters the stigma of it not working.

    I would want John Stewart Green Lantern or Vixen movie but I would settle Hawkman or Black Superman movie because while it is not what I want it is something. What I don't want is nothing like from Blade in 2004 to Black Panther 2018 no black character(or any minority character) was used. Let see if the stuff in the DC movie pipeline comes true.

  15. #15
    Fantastic Member Superboy-Prime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    For clarity, They killed Peter, So Miles could get all of the shine in UU. In the 616 Peter is A. and Miles is B. The point is there is a benefit of racebent Superman and it is the character wouldn't have to be subordinate to another character or seen as second rate character which is a huge benefit for the character. It might not be the best move you can't say there is no benefit, I see people say Peter Parker is only real spiderman so there is huge benefit to him being Clark Kent and their legit argument for you should probably only have side kick level character around with a main character stuff like Hal Jordan and John Stewart or Wally and Barry hasn't work well being similar levels.

    I vote for a new character I think composite of Val and Calvin Ellis would work better
    There's literally no benefit. A black Clark Kent will be seen as secondary to the commonly white interpretation regardless. Using one of the pre-existing black Supermen gives a chance to highlight more original stories and boost popularity of those characters.

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