Infinite Frontier #0 Discussion/Spoilers

[BohemiaDrinker]

For some reason it just doesn't do it for me.

Like, I get it, Barry helped introduce the Multiverse, he's a nerd who loves science stuff, but I just don't read him as going off on inter-dimensional dimensions and leaving Earth-1 indefinitely. And he's been focused on so much other stuff than the Multiverse lately.

It's totally on character for Barry. I mean, he did say 'screw it, I'm gonna live in the future" right after his trial.

(Is Iris not going to go with him?)

Going where? Barry is not moving to the House of Heroes, I think. He's gonna keep living in Central City, Earth-0. It's just that his "job" as Flash is now interdimensional. I mean, Calvin Ellis is still president in Earth 23. I think that that implies he lives there, so I don't know why it would be different for any other member.

[j9ac9k]

Darkseid is back to pre-COIE Jack Kirby power levels, I thought was the gist? That certainly SHOULD be a consequence so big that it scares everybody.

Was Darkseid really that much more powerful during the Kirby days or does it just sound cool to say that? I wonder what power levels Orion will be since he's always been fated to be the one to kill him.

[Vordan]

Was Darkseid really that much more powerful during the Kirby days or does it just sound cool to say that? I wonder what power levels Orion will be since he's always been fated to be the one to kill him.

He was more powerful than Pre-Crisis Superman, and you know how OP that guy was. Pre-Crisis Superman struggled with Darkseid’s minions then. But power levels don’t really interest me, it’s if his characterization will be returning to the Kirby/Morrison tactician rather than the Johns brute that I’m more interested in knowing.

[Restingvoice]

It was essentially a reintroduction of the characters. It was similar to the 30 second primers that the CW shows have to set up who everyone is and why they're doing what they're doing. If that's all you were interested in, I would skip it.

The only new wrinkle is that the Seven Soliders of Victory get to have the Golden Age Green Arrow & Speedy again. GA has brown hair, so they're likely going with him and Ollie being two different guys and they'll just never mention that the original was also named Oliver Queen or come up with an alternate name for him. Given that they had completely different origins, making the current day Ollie & Roy be inspired by the originals from the 40s works just fine. I'm surprised they didn't do this decades ago.

Other people think they're using Linearverse but Alan has white hair...

If Diana's origin is sticking with the daughter of Hippolyta & Zeus angle, where does that leave Nubia? Can she get the clay origin? Or is this Nubia no longer the daughter of Hippolyta?

She said she's her daughter

[Frontier]

I really doubt that. Javins* tenure is looking like it will be one of reconciliation. The only reason the status quo presented here feels late 90's heavy is because those were the characters that got mistreated the most, so when DC extends their hand and try to say "look, we're done being dicks to you guys", those will get the most focus first. The ones that were actually broken, for the fanbases that were actually pissed off. Going foward, everyone is pretty much getting their share of the cake, I'm sure.

*Doesn't it feel great when you write the name of an EIC to talk about an EIC doing their job?

It doesn't feel 90's enough to give the Young Justice generation their due.

I guess I should be happy Aquaman still has both hands?

It's totally on character for Barry. I mean, he did say 'screw it, I'm gonna live in the future" right after his trial.

That might've felt like a jump to me at the time too .

Going where? Barry is not moving to the House of Heroes, I think. He's gonna keep living in Central City, Earth-0. It's just that his "job" as Flash is now interdimensional. I mean, Calvin Ellis is still president in Earth 23. I think that that implies he lives there, so I don't know why it would be different for any other member.

Feels like they're completely shuffling Barry off the board, Earth-wise.

[j9ac9k]

He was more powerful than Pre-Crisis Superman, and you know how OP that guy was. Pre-Crisis Superman struggled with Darkseid’s minions then. But power levels don’t really interest me, it’s if his characterization will be returning to the Kirby/Morrison tactician rather than the Johns brute that I’m more interested in knowing.

I honestly don't remember Darkseid doing much pre-Crisis other than ordering people or Parademons around and the only person he actually fought was Orion.(based on the books I read) I will say that I hope this means that his Omega Effect will be treated again as something that pretty much has no defense.

[BohemiaDrinker]

It doesn't feel 90's enough to give the Young Justice generation their due.

That's what I meant, also: the ones that are giving us these 90s feels are Dick, Wally, Steph and Cass. The poster boys of the "Didio hates legacy" thing. The ones whose fans got antagonized for more than a decade. Doesn't mean we're getting a late 90s redux, and actually, it doesn't look like it. (Thankfully, IMHO. Let's fix what's broken and then move on!)

I guess I should be happy Aquaman still has both hands?

You sure can be: but the only cool Aquaman is a bearded Aquaman and I'm dying on that hill.

That might've felt like a jump to me at the time too .

Hmmmm.... felt in character to me.

Feels like they're completely shuffling Barry off the board, Earth-wise.

I'm sure he will be there for Flash family barbecue.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I really doubt that. Javins* tenure is looking like it will be one of reconciliation. The only reason the status quo presented here feels late 90's heavy is because those were the characters that got mistreated the most, so when DC extends their hand and try to say "look, we're done being dicks to you guys", those will get the most focus first. The ones that were actually broken, for the fanbases that were actually pissed off. Going foward, everyone is pretty much getting their share of the cake, I'm sure.

*Doesn't it feel great when you write the name of an EIC to talk about an EIC doing their job?

Oh, absolutely there’s some a real attempt to mend fences here. I can certainly see that, but I also think that the DCU people first imprinted on is playing a part here, but hopefully without the dickery that went along with those past eras, particularly in regards to the Flash and GL franchises. Neither Carlin nor Didio’s respective tenures are looking particularly great these days.

[Restingvoice]

Darkseid is back to pre-COIE Jack Kirby power levels, I thought was the gist? That certainly SHOULD be a consequence so big that it scares everybody. Thank god his costume is back to being monolithic. No more "I'm a garish fragmented edgy new shard of the Whole Darkseid". Still I for one adored Darkseid monologuing about how "Look at this new Infinite Frontier of possibility and hope ... know this ... Darkseid IS FINITE" language play. Of course if you see an infinite playground and giant sandbox with no edges to play in Darkseid comes along and is like "I cut all the ropes on the rings, sawed off the monkey bars and crapped in the sandbox. Wallow in your misery, children."

I haven't read it myself, and since it's now gonna be a 6 issues on top of this, I think I'm gonna Trade it. I'm okay with spoilers to keep tab of the lore change.
So he's stronger than Spectre and Highfather in silver age?

[HsssH]

I honestly don't remember Darkseid doing much pre-Crisis other than ordering people or Parademons around and the only person he actually fought was Orion.(based on the books I read) I will say that I hope this means that his Omega Effect will be treated again as something that pretty much has no defense.

I'm also not sure where this power level talk is coming from. I have read all 4 Kirby's New Gods books and there was nothing like that in them. Maybe it is based on work that other writers did after Kirby and before CoIE? But then we probably shouldn't say that he is back to Kirby power levels.

[Restingvoice]

So let me get this straight.

Since Truth was revealed in Metal and everyone remember their past selves, Jon Kent also remember that he used to be conceived by Post Crisis Superman and Lois, then birthed in Convergence, and both are now gone because Mxy altered reality in Superman Reborn. He now remember them, and that's why he feels lost, on top of the growing up trauma.

Which is fine if they wanna do something about it. At least one character's story is actually taking on the consequences.

Why is he Superman though. He's 17.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

So let me get this straight.

Since Truth was revealed in Metal and everyone remember their past selves, Jon Kent also remember that he used to be conceived by Post Crisis Superman and Lois, then birthed in Convergence, and both are now gone because Mxy altered reality in Superman Reborn. He now remember them, and that's why he feels lost, on top of the growing up trauma.

Which is fine if they wanna do something about it. At least one character's story is actually taking on the consequences.

Why is he Superman though. He's 17.

I think the scene with Ollie & Dinah did a good job of showing how Death Metal's "They remember everything" idea is actually going to play out. They remember bits and pieces of their past lives, but they don't have decades worth of conflicting memories all competing with each other for dominance. They'll just remember the high lights and the stuff that doesn't fit (or no one liked) will be largely forgotten.

However, Jonathan Kent is a very special case due to the circumstances of his birth. The only other DC character that comes close to him in terms of Multiversal shenanigans is Alexander Luthor Junior of Earth-3. I'm glad they aren't trying to ignore the craziness of Jon's childhood, but are using it to further the character's story.

The idea that the DCU's higher powers think Jon is a threat because of this is an interesting wrinkle to explore.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I haven't read it myself, and since it's now gonna be a 6 issues on top of this, I think I'm gonna Trade it. I'm okay with spoilers to keep tab of the lore change.
So he's stronger than Spectre and Highfather in silver age?

He literally took out Ganthet, Highfather, Hera, Phantom Stranger, Shazam and Spectre with one move. He's uber-powerful.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I'm also not sure where this power level talk is coming from. I have read all 4 Kirby's New Gods books and there was nothing like that in them. Maybe it is based on work that other writers did after Kirby and before CoIE? But then we probably shouldn't say that he is back to Kirby power levels.

Yeah, the power creep started post-Kirby and hit its apex with Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[Korath]

He was more powerful than Pre-Crisis Superman, and you know how OP that guy was. Pre-Crisis Superman struggled with Darkseid’s minions then. But power levels don’t really interest me, it’s if his characterization will be returning to the Kirby/Morrison tactician rather than the Johns brute that I’m more interested in knowing.

In that regard, it started in JLO.