Infinite Frontier #0 Discussion/Spoilers

[failo.legendkiller]

Donna and Cassie continue to be excluded from the Wonder family. One would think that they'd go to Themiscrya and be in consideration as to who the next Wonder Woman is instead of acting as if they dont even exist and have never been Wonder Girl.

This is so disappointing, it's the usual mistake endlessly repeated.
I will never accept the intoduction of Nubia or anyone else while Donna and Cassie are not fixed and simply ignored or forgotten.

about the rest of the issue, I totally agree with Rakzo. It's a Rebirth 2.0 written by some less inspired artists.

I'm very happy to finally have Jade and Obsidian back. Although the Alan Scott's gay revelation has been executed really bad.

Jon Kent need to be reversed to a child, this is a lost opportunity. We'll see.

Roy's back, great! now bring back Lian and let's forget about "Heroes in Crisis" and "Cry for Justice" for good.

So Wally now is the Earth's Flash thanks to Barry's concession. I don't like the way they executed this too. Anyway they finally give a place for both Flashes.

Multiverse is not my cup of tea along with Darkseid and Apokolyps.

I'm still missing many of my favorite characters: Tim Drake, Kyle Rayner, Guy Gardner above all.

Infinite Frontier is a soft reboot, there is something interesting but they have not reversed all the mistakes introduced with New 52. My hopes in this new stint are low but I'll give a chance to some titles.

[HsssH]

When it comes to Darkseid's Power-up, I just realized that it must be that the Omega Effect has seriously grown in Power and is literally spilling out of Darkseid as that Black Energy. Maybe the possibility of Infinite DEATH has compounded it?

Now that I have thought about it that way, i can see how Darkseid is now basically The God of Death

So is it better to be god of evil or god of death?

[MajorHoy]

This felt like Rebirth getting back on track after it got mucked up 2 years ago.

This #0 issue felt like an attempt to just re-do DC Universe: Rebirth #0, but it wasn't as cohesive since it didn't have just a single writer handling. Very uneven by farming out the chapters to the writers of those titles, and the art also felt more uneven than what we got with DC Universe: Rebirth #0.
(And the issue definitely didn't end on a hopeful note!)

When it comes to Darkseid's Power-up, I just realized that it must be that the Omega Effect has seriously grown in Power and is literally spilling out of Darkseid as that Black Energy. Maybe the possibility of Infinite DEATH has compounded it?

Now that I have thought about it that way, i can see how Darkseid is now basically The God of Death

Isn't that poaching on Thanos' territory?

This is so disappointing, it's the usual mistake endlessly repeated.
I will never accept the introduction of Nubia or anyone else while Donna and Cassie are not fixed and simply ignored or forgotten...

Don't forget, Nubia was introduced well before Cassie Sandmark was. (Late 1972 vs. late 1995.)

. . . about the rest of the issue, I totally agree with Rakzo. It's a Rebirth 2.0 written by some less inspired artists.

I'm very happy to finally have Jade and Obsidian back. Although the Alan Scott's gay revelation has been executed really bad...

To me, that's putting it mildly. (I'll bite my tongue when it comes to saying anything more on the whole direction with Alan.)

. . . Infinite Frontier is a soft reboot, there is something interesting but they have not reversed all the mistakes introduced with New 52. My hopes in this new stint are low but I'll give a chance to some titles.

While DC Universe: Rebirth left me with some hope that I'd like some of what was to follow, I didn't get that same feeling with Infinite Frontier #0. Too much missed / mis-handled opportunity from my standpoint. I might try one or two regular books going forward, and I plan on getting the Stargirl one-shot special (to see what they're doing this week in terms of the original Seven Soldiers of Victory), but beyond that, there's not much for this old fart.

[Restingvoice]

This is so disappointing, it's the usual mistake endlessly repeated.
I will never accept the intoduction of Nubia or anyone else while Donna and Cassie are not fixed and simply ignored or forgotten.

I'm very happy to finally have Jade and Obsidian back. Although the Alan Scott's gay revelation has been executed really bad.

Roy's back, great! now bring back Lian and let's forget about "Heroes in Crisis" and "Cry for Justice" for good.

Donna will be teaching in Titans Academy. She's in the crowd of silhouette welcoming the students. Her back story, at the moment, is... well, actually, I forget. Early Rebirth, she's from clay created to kill Wonder Woman by evil Amazons but rescued and raised alongside Diana as sisters, but I think someone said that has been retconned again, but I'm not sure.

Yeah but Cassie, no idea. Bart's in Flash, Kon's in Suicide Squad, and Tim, Steph and Cass will be handled later this year.

Really? Everywhere I go people like the coming out part, it's the highlight of the issue.

Hmm... wouldn't count on that... the rule as setup by Metal is everything canon and they will experience flashes of those contradicting past memories once a while... and they're still talking about Wally's redemption

So is it better to be god of evil or god of death?

I vote for evil since death is supposed to be neutral

[K. Jones]

Darkseid as 'god of death' does encroach on Thanos. But really, Nekron is where my head went. But we mustn't conflate "THE END" with "Death". First off, in the DCU death is rarely The End (in a story sense, The End is the story ending, of course). But also ... Darkseid is more cruel than that. He'd want to personify, or just would, wants be damned, personify, the concept that "there are worse things than death". An eternal life of constant torment is worse than death. The subjugation of all so that it's just an extension of HIS EGO is worse than everyone dying and the story ending.

The WORST POSSIBLE OUTCOME for a creative/writing/fantasy universe that's fabric of reality is made out of living story is for EVERY PAGE to be OMEGA and every line of dialogue to be DARKSEID IS DARKSEID IS DARKSEID IS DARKSEID. For all struggle and triumph, heroism and virtue, and recognition that we find in every character to just be replaced utterly with them broken and shuffling and cogs in a dire machine, a mirror of all our insecurities and none of our values.

[Jody Garland]

Is it just me or does that Darkseid look and sound a lot like the one from Miller's Golden Child oneshot last year?

[failo.legendkiller]

Don't forget, Nubia was introduced well before Cassie Sandmark was. (Late 1972 vs. late 1995.)

My mistake, I meant to say Yara Flor the new one introduced in Future State.

Donna will be teaching in Titans Academy. She's in the crowd of silhouette welcoming the students. Her back story, at the moment, is... well, actually, I forget. Early Rebirth, she's from clay created to kill Wonder Woman by evil Amazons but rescued and raised alongside Diana as sisters, but I think someone said that has been retconned again, but I'm not sure.

What they did in the last 10 years to Donna Troy is pure garbage. She's an important character and deserve much more than a teacher role in a Titans Academy. And above all she must be properly placed and fixed in the Amazons myth.

Really? Everywhere I go people like the coming out part, it's the highlight of the issue.

Yes, I felt as being gay it's a sin. Maybe I should read it again.

[Bruce Wayne]

DC is literally going around in circles. Morrison already did a Darkseid Crisis with Final Crisis. No need to do another one.

[MajorHoy]

. . . Really? Everywhere I go people like the coming out part, it's the highlight of the issue...

. . . Yes, I felt as being gay it's a sin. Maybe I should read it again.

My problems with Alan "coming out" in the issue are many. I think Tynion is a heavy-handed, usually mediocre (at best) writer, so that didn't help.
I also don't accept Alan as now suddenly being gay. It doesn't fit with the past stories I read with him in it, and it seems a gratuitous decision. Unless somebody has proof positive that he was "created" that way, I think it's just a B-S move.
If DC truly wanted a gay superhero to have existed in the 1940s / Golden Age, they should have revived All-Star Squadron and do what Roy Thomas did with Will Everett: retroactively create a character to fill a noticeable void. (In the case of Will Everett, it was creating the African-American character Amazing Man.)

[HsssH]

Sadly nobody cares about gay characters unless it is some older character coming out.

[Killerbee911]

My problems with Alan "coming out" in the issue are many. I think Tynion is a heavy-handed, usually mediocre (at best) writer, so that didn't help.
I also don't accept Alan as now suddenly being gay. It doesn't fit with the past stories I read with him in it, and it seems a gratuitous decision. Unless somebody has proof positive that he was "created" that way, I think it's just a B-S move.
If DC truly wanted a gay superhero to have existed in the 1940s / Golden Age, they should have revived All-Star Squadron and do what Roy Thomas did with Will Everett: retroactively create a character to fill a noticeable void. (In the case of Will Everett, it was creating the African-American character Amazing Man.)

He wasn't created that way but it doesn't matter this a shared universe own by a company and that is how it works, retroactive change meant to be always canon happens all time. DC is the authority on what the character is even the original creator's intent does not matter. Also Alan isn't suddenly gay he was closeted gay and it is a common enough story of a man keeping up appearances of being straight even having a wife and children. It fits the past stories you read with him.

[Restingvoice]

Yes, I felt as being gay it's a sin. Maybe I should read it again.

Well, it was the 40s... and even now, depending on where you are and how you're raised, it can still feel that way

[Ropeburn]

Does DC/Bendis really think Shazadam will stick?

Who the hell would work for Arkham? Seriously? You couldn't get life insurance. It just needs to be an abandoned building/secret lair now. It's failed in every way.

Oracle's back? Yes, please. I'd prefer only ONE Batgirl though: Cassandra Cain. Spoiler can be Spoiler.

Loved seeing Grifter. He and the rest of Widstorm have been underused for too long.

That WW art is terrible. The artist is fine with faces but puts baby arms on adult figures. Definitely not ready for prime time.

Since there is already a well known and established Panther Royalty in another universe why in the name of Rao would you put one on Nubia's crown? Unoriginal at best, law suit waiting to happen at worst.

Love seeing Jade and Obsidian return. Alan saying he is gay is not welcome however. In the past he was married to one woman which is no small feat. Retcon! Now he's been married multiple times. This is the terrible part: Alan knew he was gay way back in the JSA days and told some of his team mates. Then he marries women anyway. Alan knows it's not real. Some of the JSA members know it's not real. But the poor women he marries are clueless what they've just gotten into. You talk about victimizing people! Chances are good Alan cheated on these women. Once you've had the courage to tell people, you've pretty much settled on your sexual preference. At least in my experience. So boo to this.

Only nice thing i can say about the Titans Academy is the redesigned Tower looks good. The Marvel Academy books (for Avengers and X-Men) didn't sell well. Legion Academy didn't sell well and that had the most amazing art. Most of the characters created are now in limbo. And who wants to be a Titan anyway? DC writers are always killing off Titans. Tearing their limbs off. Ignoring their characterization and growth. And especially, turning them into super villains. You would think it would be the JLAcademy. Anything but being a Titan. A franchise that has been mishandled since the mid-90's. Remember Team Titans? Remember Atom turning into a teen again? Remember Pantha???

You don't get points for undoing Tom King, so Arsenal being back is a given.

Stargirl's story was fun and a big welcome of sunshine.

Where was Batman during the whole Arkham event? On a Batcycle only going the speed limit? He never made it to the Arkham facility until it blew up. I need a map because the backgrounds are non existent.

Scarecrow's new look is cool. Won't last but it's cool.

So they retconned that Teen Lantern "hacked" into the Oan Battery because she's soooooo smart? Now someone gave her a ring on a planet with ten other ring slingers? Oh man what an incredible mystery! This should take them all over the universe to uncover!

Wally West being the main Flash again is long overdue. Please have Barry take Walter West with him to the Justice Incarnate team. Hell, take every 52 mess with him.

Why exactly does Diana whirl around making a terrible costume and decide to live again? If Diana's back, why does her mother join the JLA? And why would Nubia need to lead the Amazons? Is she not going back to Earth? Will she not fight crime until someone says something nice about her outfit? Because that could take decades.

Dark-Thanos-eid not happy about. If he could take out all the Gods and a Guardian that fast, there's no way he cant take out all of Earth's champion. Unless Bendis is writing it. Then Teen Lantern and Naomi will take care of him in two panels.

Some welcome returns that should never have gone in the first place. Some decent art (except WW). Some interesting ideas (some not). Good luck DC. You're on a short leash, but let's see where you're going with this.

[Restingvoice]

Where was Batman during the whole Arkham event? On a Batcycle only going the speed limit? He never made it to the Arkham facility until it blew up. I need a map because the backgrounds are non existent.

Wayne Manor is north in the mainland outside of Gotham City, across a bridge
No wait... he's not living in the manor anymore, but I don't know where he lives.

Anyway, there are three large islands making up Gotham City. North, center, and south.
(Then 4 smaller ones for Arkham, Blackgate, The Narrows and Tricorner Yards)

Arkham Island is between the north and the center island.

Wayne Enterprises is on the center island, Crime Alley is on the north island, GCPD HQ on the south.

[Triniking1234]

I haven't picked up Batman since #50 so why is Bruce supposedly broke and what's going on with the Fox Family?

QUOTE=Ropeburn;5413342]

That WW art is terrible. The artist is fine with faces but puts baby arms on adult figures. Definitely not ready for prime time.

[/QUOTE]

There was some bad work with some of the limbs but Manke was committing a war crime with Flash art.