Batman 106 Discussion

[prepmaster]

So far Tynion's run has been generic to me.

First the Joker event was rushed and not more special than other Joker stories. The event has featured popular characters to boost sales.

Now he is introducing the Magistrate to make Gotham a police state. The mayor and his police force are not gonna stand out as villains among Batman's rogues gallery. He is showing how powerful the Magistrate is by having them captured Batman and giving them a robot army to spy and hunt down people.

Its like Tynion doing his own take on Endgame and Court of Owls.

Scarecrow is a villain that needs an upgrade. He relies heavily on his gimmick and doesnt even own that gimmick. Common criminals are afraid of Batman more than Scarecrow. Top Batman's rogues are not afraid of Scarecrow (Joker, Bane, etc...) and are capable of creating hallunating gas and have more resources. Scarecrow only has fear gas but if you take away his fear gas and give it to other villains (mad scientist, inventor), stories dont change much.

His new characters (anti heroes, villains) havent been well received except Punchline who is meant to replace the spot of Joker's sidekick that Harley left behind. I mean their names are just dull. Ghostmaker, Peace keeper, Clownhunter, Unsanity Collective. I still reserve my final judgement for the new characters since Tynion can still add more interesting things to them.

[CPSparkles]

Then explain why film-makers never bother to add any Batfam member to Batman's movies? If these Bat-fam members have such large fan base, shouldnt Batman movie feature them? But instead film-makers think its not worth the money to cast actors for the roles of Batfam members.

If there is anything, you see they are not that valuable when Harley makes it into the Batfam due to how profitable of a character she is more than most other Batfam members.

Film Markers do use them in their movies and have been doing since back in the days of West up to Snyder.

The only one who didn't was Burton who notoriously had an intense dislike for Robin. Even then WB tried to force him to use Robin in his movies.

Which again shows you how much the IP owners value the support characters in this case Robin.

Your argument about the Nolan movies don't hold up for 2 reasons - Nolan did use the support cast

_ attempting to link the profitability of those movies to the lack of support cast is akin to linking the profitability of the trilogy to the fact Batman had love interests or that batman retired early.

Those movies are that successful because of nolan's talents, the casting and a well written script.

Film makers don't know what characters make money since they don't have access to that info.

WB and their accountants know which character's make money. They are the ones with that info. They are also the ones who fought Burton, the one director that didn't want to use the family on the subject.

Harley is DC's 4th pillar after the big 3 and part of the Bat Franchise. Shocker she's in use so much.

[prepmaster]

well written script.[/U]

WB and their accountants know which character's make money. They are the ones with that info. They are also the ones who fought Burton, the one director that didn't want to use the family on the subject.

Here is what i argue about. Story function of the characters. Robin was only there to draw in younger demographics. But storywise, Batman can have other supporting characters that are not Robin to be his partner (or underling to be more precise). In case of Nolan triology, you did have Catwoman who aided Batman. If you have 5 or 6 Robins, they would all be written as fodders to the villains.

[CPSparkles]

I agree that Damian is popular now, but that popularity came from his connection to Batman. Being Bruce's biological son and being hailed as the son of the bat is the main contributer to his relevance, and his fans whether they admit it or not know this. In the recent Deathstroke vs Batman mini Damian fans were mad that DC might make Damian Slade's kid, why was that? Now DC didn't have the guts to pull the trigger but what if? What if DC now say actually Damian isn't Bruce's son, how does that go over? Point is family fans are always ripping Batman for any and everything. Batman fans get annoyed and don't want him to associate with them. With the way that family fans go at Bruce you would think that they would be happy with a separation from Batman, that they wouldn't want the family to have anything to do with him, but somehow they don't; why? A clean break would be best for both Batman and the family and probably the fans of both as well.

I don't know what would happen if DC changes Damian's DNA and neither do you. We can assume but assumptions aren't facts.

What is Facts is that DC chose not to change who Damian's genetic makeup and they also chose to bring back to life twice when he could have been left dead so they see value in keeping the character around.

Batfamily fans complain about certain off Batman stories where Batman is written as being violent or toxic to the family.

Solo Batman fans complain about the nerve of batfamily fans who complain. Something seems off there. What about the writers who actually write the stories?

What's best is for writers to respect characters. To not prop characters with other characters. to be mindful of Batman's Status and protect that status.

[Agent Z]

Here is what i argue about. Story function of the characters. Robin was only there to draw in younger demographics. But storywise, Batman can have other supporting characters that are not Robin to be his partner. In case of Nolan triology, you did have Catwoman who aided Batman. If you have 5 or 6 Robins, they would all be written as fodders to the villains.

Going by this logic, Batman doesn't need his villain either given how often they get killed off and replaced from film to film.

[prepmaster]

Going by this logic, Batman doesn't need his villain either given how often they get killed off and replaced from film to film.

Villains provide conflicts. Batman's underlings dont drive the story. They get crippled or murdered by the villains. So that alone shows how much more important the villains are to Batman's underlings.

[CPSparkles]

Here is what i argue about. Story function of the characters. Robin was only there to draw in younger demographics. But storywise, Batman can have other supporting characters that are not Robin to be his partner. In case of Nolan triology, you did have Catwoman who aided Batman. If you have 5 or 6 Robins, they would all be written as fodders to the villains.

But my comment that you replied to had nothing to do with that. I agree that batman can have other support staff who aren't Robin only one of his bat themed allies.

Batman has a rich cast so there's plenty of avenues to explored.

[Agent Z]

Villains provide conflicts. Batman's underlings dont drive the story. They get crippled or murdered by the villains. So that alone shows how much more important the villains are to Batman's underlings.

Yeah, you repeating this over and over again doesn't make it true and shows how much you know (or ignore) about the Batfamily's history to prove your point.

[prepmaster]

But my comment that you replied to had nothing to do with that. I agree that batman can have other support staff who aren't Robin only one of his bat themed allies

Give me an arguement that Batfam is important. Storywise they dont. In the case of Robin, it was to draw in younger demographics. But Batman stories dont need a Robin as a partner to function well. Batman can have other partners. Heck partners that are not even in the Batfam.

[prepmaster]

shows how much you know (or ignore) about the Batfamily's history to prove your point.

Batfam history? Its becoming a mess right now that even a title of an underling has to be competed among 3 people.

[Restingvoice]

You dont need the fam to sell the threat level of the villains. What I want to argue about was the story function of the characters. Batfam members are written as fodders or deus ex machina or at best lesser version of Bruce. They dont bring anything to the table that Bruce cant do. The Nolan triology doesnt need Batfam. Movie makers are smart enough to not waste money on casting actors for insignificant roles. The conflict is between Batman and his villains. Thats it. One protagonist, simple conflict, simple narrative. Not Batman & his underlings vs his villains.

I already answered that, right at the beginning. Their story function, in this book, is to help Batman handle threats that more than one person can handle. That's something that Bruce can't do. He can't be everywhere at once.

The threat of the villains are related to that function because in the old days Joker only strike at one place at a time, but now he stole his fortune, create a riot, create zombies, drag other villains in a multi-step plan... size of the city and number of threats matter if you're only one.

The Nolan trilogy uses Catwoman, "Robin", on top of Gordon and Lucius, and the whole GCPD in the final battle. Even in the very first movie, Batman only wins because Gordon, using the Bat mobile, drop the monorail before it hits the center of the city. So even your point of reference is wrong.

[prepmaster]

I already answered that, right at the beginning. Their story function, in this book, is to help Batman handle threats that more than one person can handle. That's something that Bruce can't do. He can't be everywhere at once.

The threat of the villains are related to that function because in the old days Joker only strike at one place at a time, but now he stole his fortune, create a riot, create zombies, drag other villains in a multi-step plan... size of the city and number of threats matter if you're only one.

You make it sound like the underlings can be everywhere at the same time. Like Batman has an army of thousands underlings to deal with city level threat. You dont need the underlings to sell the threat level of a villain. Reading message off a wall & beating no name thugs are all these underlings used for then there is no need to waste more panels for them. By your logic, Batman should have more underlings to be able to handle bigger threats even when they dont contribute much to the story. Lets have more panels of more underlings beating no name thugs in different locations in Gotham. Whats more ridiculous is that many of the underlings are not even mature adults. The mantle of the Batman's most popular underling is not worn by an adult. Oracle is also questionable because you could just replace her with an AI and the story wouldnt change much. The number of underlings in Bat books is bigger than the number of partners that Batman needed in Nolan triology. Gordon is already intergral because he serves as a bridge between Batman and the GCPD. They made him even more of an important partner in the movie.

[fin5]

im a little confused?I thought it was all new people doning the mask.Like in Future state .I didn't read Batman 106 and infinity Frontier So I don't know.I understand Future state is a posable Future

[sifighter]

im a little confused?I thought it was all new people doning the mask.Like in Future state .I didn't read Batman 106 and infinity Frontier So I don't know.I understand Future state is a posable Future

Sorry for the confusion, the only real new person we will see is Tim “Jace” Fox working on becoming the Next Batman in the present day, other stories in future state were more of a warning of what may come to pass. So in the present day with Infinite Frontier #0 and issue 106 we are establishing events that create the birth of the Magistrate organization we saw in Future State, whether we get to that future remains to be seen.

[Restingvoice]

You make it sound like the underlings can be everywhere at the same time. You dont need the underlings to sell the threat level of a villain. Reading message off a wall & beating no name thugs are all these underlings used for then there is no need to waste more panels for them. Oracle is also questionable because you could just replace her with an AI and it wouldnt change much. The number of underlings in Bat books is bigger than the number of partners that Batman needed in Nolan triology. Gordon is already intergral because he serves as a bridge between Batman and the GCPD. They made him even more of an important partner in the movie.

They can't be everywhere at the same time, but they can be at more places at the same time because there are many.

Sure. You can make a psychological story, or smaller cases where they only need Batman to solve the case. I don't think anyone have a problem with that, stories like that exist in every run, but this is not that story, the writer want to make a larger scale, so there it is.

So what if there are many more than Nolan movies? The more there are, the more grounds in Gotham to cover.

Why would you build an A.I. if you have someone willingly help for free? Especially with Bruce's financial condition.

All of these characters are living in Gotham, there's a problem in Gotham, they're connected to Batman, some of them have been trained by or with Batman, others, connected to the other members of the family, they can and want to help, so they help. If they don't help, then their story, their characters don't make sense.

Oracle's the daughter of Gordon. You think she's gonna stay put and don't help? Doesn't make sense. Cass and Stephanie look up to Bruce and Barbara so they help. Ghost-Maker's Bruce's old friend, so he helps. Catwoman's his lover, so she helps. Harley hates Joker, so she helps when Joker's involved.

If they're not living in Gotham or currently in Gotham, then yeah, they have no reason to be there and the panel time can be given to other people, or if it's a smaller-scale story, a story that's more focused on Batman himself, but this is not that story, so it makes more sense than if they show up.

====

Basically if what you want is that smaller story, where you can focus on the essential, Batman as protagonist, a villain as antagonist that's threatening enough, a few supporting cast, then cool! Go ahead! Find that story, buy that story, read that story, but what I'm seeing here is you going to a place where it's not the story you want, the setup's not you want, but you buy it anyway and complain that it's not what you want.

If you want a main continuity story with no Batfam because you prefer that essential Batman story, then you're too late. 80 years too late. 40, if we're counting from the time when the family expand to more than Robin and Batgirl. This is how it is right now. Go pick Batman Black and White or Black Label or something, that sounds more like your alley.

But don't come, buy, and complain about something that has been established for literal years, especially since you can see straight from the preview that they do use these characters. This story's not for you, accept it, and move on.