Batman 106 Discussion

[The tall man]

Its just sad that Batman comics is now a place to promote other Batfam members who can not carry their own books. Batman doesnt need that many underlings to become popular. Even his most popular underling is not casted in Nolan triology and Reeves movie. In cinematic storytelling, his underlings are disposable.

100% agree with this. The family adds nothing of value to Batman's world or his mythos, they just take up space. I've always said that there should be a wall of separation between Batman and the family, let Batman do his own thing and let the family do theirs. If they have a big enough fan base with strong support they can have their own books that their fans can enjoy free from Batman. But if they can't support their own books don't look to put them in Bruce's books. People cannot hate on Batman but want the family in his books and then complain that are not being used well enough. Dosen't work that way.

[Nite-Wing]

100% agree with this. The family adds nothing of value to Batman's world or his mythos, they just take up space. I've always said that there should be a wall of separation between Batman and the family, let Batman do his own thing and let the family do theirs. If they have a big enough fan base with strong support they can have their own books that their fans can enjoy free from Batman. But if they can't support their own books don't look to put them in Bruce's books. People cannot hate on Batman but want the family in his books and then complain that are not being used well enough. Dosen't work that way.

The new editorial mandate is for the Batman title to promote/feature the new or old family members in some way shape or form

Tynion is also introducing a lot of new elements in his run, new characters, and I guess it will all tie in together leading to the magistrate future for gotham.

[prepmaster]

The new editorial mandate is for the Batman title to promote/feature the new or old family members in some way shape or form

The problem is that writers cant come up with stories to propel the popularity of these Batfam characters as protagonists. Jason's most popular story is his death. Barbara's most popular story is her being crippled. These characters have fan base but these characters dont have popular stories where they are the main protagonists. Its no wonder that their books are not sustainable. Batman is a good protagonist who has gained reputation from 8 decades of publishing while they arent. So they end up leeching off his mythos more than anything. Now we have a game like Gotham Knights where we have to play as 4 of Batman's underlings to fight against Batman's villains. 4 lesser versions of 1 character. In cinematic storytelling, Batman's underlings are disposable because movie makers are smart enough to know that they only need the main protagonist - Batman.

[Restingvoice]

I don't care for whether Batman family taking up space or if they contributing anything to the mythos

What I care for is whether it make sense for a human crime fighter like Batman, especially without his massive fortune, trying to handle a metropolis like Gotham, especially in a city-scale threat, and not use all the allies he can get.

That's the only reason I need for Bat fam to be there. Batman wants to fight crime, he's only one person, so there's the help.

[Astralabius]

The batfamily is the only thing that humanizes Bruce to me. Without them he's just an ******* manchild who is obsessed with being Gotham's sole saviour.

[prepmaster]

That's the only reason I need for Bat fam to be there. Batman wants to fight crime, he's only one person, so there's the help.

Then these characters dont have any good use to them. They only beat no name thugs and become fodders to the villains (Joker, Flashpoint Batman, Hush, etc...) . They dont have any important story function. At best they become deus ex machina.

I just hope that they let some of Batman's villains kill off his underlings. Thats how you make your villains credible as a threat. Not like now where he has a growing number of underlings while the villains are not allowed to do any harm to them.

[TheBatman]

I'm also tired of the Batfamily for the most part. Especially since so many fans overrate the various members.

[prepmaster]

The batfamily is the only thing that humanizes Bruce to me. Without them he's just an ******* manchild who is obsessed with being Gotham's sole saviour.

I see him different. I see him as a man who fights in an unwinnable war. But he has to do it because he cant allow others to suffer like he does. There is that pain in him that drives him to fight against those that commit crimes (especially those that commit murders). The man who sacrifices his childhood and teenage years to train himself into acheiving peak human's physical conditions. The man who sacrifices a part of his humanity to instill fear onto criminals and normal relationships with others to be fully devoted to crime fighting. He is to me a personification of pain & sacrifice.

[Restingvoice]

Then these characters dont have any good use to them. They only beat no name thugs and become fodders to the villains (Joker, Flashpoint Batman, Hush, etc...) . They dont have any important story function. At best they become deus ex machina.

I just hope that they let some of Batman's villains kill off his underlings. Thats how you make your villains credible as a threat. Not like now where he has a growing number of underlings while the villains are not allowed to do any harm to them.

Sure, if they can't sustain their own book and people aren't tired of death when they know they're gonna be revived anyway. There's no gravity in death in DCU. Even when Alfred dead the reaction was simply so when will he be back because people are just tired. The Robins joke about their deaths in story because it happened so often and they're always back. No, death isn't a solution.

Aside from that what fans want are relationship. Stories between characters. If the writer can't spend time to develop them, then yeah, it's going to be meaningless. Both Batfam fans and anti don't like this. Cass fans are still waiting when Bruce gonna adopt her again. When Steph's gonna be shown more than a side piece to Tim. When Tim's gonna show up, since he's also an adopted son, but panel time for being his son is only cameos, because the writers can only focus on one or two, or just create more.

Batman and his family have been tangling with the same villains for over 20 years in story and a lot of them have been handling metahumans. The average Batman villains shouldn't be a threat with the exception of select ones who also has been in the larger superhero verse and/or continuously evolving like how Joker started with deathly laughing gas, and now he's made zombie-brainwash gas.

[prepmaster]

Batman and his family have been tangling with the same villains for over 20 years in story and a lot of them have been handling metahumans.

Batman doesnt need his family to fight against superpowered threats in Justice League stories. His underlings cant even make it to the JL because they are disposable. Lesser versions of Batman.

[Astralabius]

I see him different. I see him as a man who fights in an unwinnable war. But he has to do it because he cant allow others to suffer like he does. There is that pain in him that drives him to fight against those that commit crimes (especially those that commit murders). The man who sacrifices his childhood and teenage years to train himself into acheiving peak human's physical conditions. The man who sacrifices a part of his humanity to instill fear onto criminals and normal relationships with others to be fully devoted to crime fighting. He is to me a personification of pain & sacrifice.

Good for you. I still think he's a childish and selfish prick who thinks his morals are the most important thing in the world.

[Astralabius]

Batman doesnt need his family to fight against superpowered threats in Justice League stories. His underlings cant even make it to the JL because they are disposable.

And if comics were realistic Batman would be useless in the JL. He would die after only a few days.

[prepmaster]

Good for you. I still think he's a childish and selfish prick who thinks his morals are the most important thing in the world.

His morals are his own. No kill code was not intended to be intergral to Batman but later writers add more reasonings to his no kill code. First, the guy believes in rehabilitation. He believes people can change for the better, even the worst kind of people. Secondly, he is the guy who witnessed the murder of his parents so no he is not gonna bring himself to kill others without feeling much guilt thinking of himself being like the murderer that shot his parents. Thirdly he is afraid of going down the dark path of killing. He cant allow himself to find satisfaction in the killing of others.

Thats character's depth that no other characters in the Batfam have.

And if comics were realistic Batman would be useless in the JL. He would die after only a few days.

Batman would die in the first weeks / months of his career due to shootout. Whats important is the story function the character has. Batfam members are at best lesser versions of Batman. Thats why they use Batman on JL but none of his underlings.

[Astralabius]

His morals are his own. No kill code was not intended to be intergral to Batman but later writers add more reasonings to his no kill code. First, the guy believes in rehabilitation. He believes people can change for the better, even the worst kind of people. Secondly, he is the guy who witnessed the murder of his parents so no he is not gonna bring himself to kill others without feeling much guilt thinking of himself being like the murderer that shot his parents. Thirdly he is afraid of going down the dark path of killing. He cant allow himself to find satisfaction in the killing of others.

Thats character's depth that no other characters in the Batfam have.


Batman would die in the first weeks / months of his career due to shootout. Whats important is the story function the character has.

If he doesn't want to kill that's fine, it's how much he judges others that for example think the Joker should be killed, not by him, by them, that annoys me.
Joker is beyond saving and Gotham is paying the price for Bruce's childishness.
Also, Bruce is hardly the only one who honors the no-kill-rule, not in the batfamily and let alone in the DC universe. He's not that special, he just talks about it all the time.

The functions Bruce has in the League could be easily be taken over by others. He's not the best fighter and he's far from the only great tactician.

[prepmaster]

The functions Bruce has in the League could be easily be taken over by others. He's not the best fighter and he's far from the only great tactician.

He was also rich.

Joker is beyond saving and Gotham is paying the price for Bruce's childishness.

No one is beyond saving for Batman. Thats what makes him Batman. Its his belief that people can change for the better. He would rather die than giving up on his belief. And its not unfounded since you have stories where other Batman's villains reform.