X-Men: First Class (2011) Rewatch and Thoughts.

[Castle]

It's true black people were treated worse in the 60s, but appropriating the civil rights struggle from that era into the movie and then doing that and making the Angel a villainess seemed to be in poor taste.

Shaw seemed villainous to me, considering he was willing to cause the deaths of millions.

Appropriating wont be the word. check out this scene,

Attachment 106963

Again another perfect example of social commentary and metaphors maybe even the best we had in the series in a subtle way,

magneto and xavier sitting on the steps of the lincoln memorial talking about if mutants will get equal rights after their efforts in the ussa and usa war. magneto is not yet convinced.

this scene has so much meaning in the world of xmen and the world of 1960s reality, since the movie takes place in the 60s. MLK gave his famous speech there of equal rights.

x-lincoln.jpg

when you say appropriation only because the fictional characters are not black although ignoring one is still jewish that survived world war 2 holocaust and it is xmen not mcu black panther, that won't truly count with objective criticism, the actual objective film criticism is honouring the civil rights struggles with a totally fictional group of characters who in their world are facing the same prejudice, that even gets more praise because. usually , this is not what we expect from a comic book movie ,as you said, we expect action mostly. first class was far more than that. it was deeper than the standard good fun superhero film.

[CosmiComic]

Appropriating wont be the word. check out this scene,

Attachment 106963

Again another perfect example of social commentary and metaphors maybe even the best we had in the series in a subtle way,

magneto and xavier sitting on the steps of the lincoln memorial talking about if mutants will get equal rights after their efforts in the ussa and ussr war. magneto is not yet convinced.

this scene has so much meaning in the world of xmen and the world of 1960s reality, since the movie takes place in the 60s. MLK gave his famous speech there of equal rights.

when you say appropriation only because the fictional characters are not black although ignoring one is still jewish that survived world war 2 holocaust and it is xmen not mcu black panther, that won't truly count with objective criticism, the actual objective film criticism is honouring the civil rights struggles with a totally fictional group of characters who in their world are facing the same prejudice, that even gets more praise because. usually , this is not what we expect from a comic book movie ,as you said, we expect action mostly. first class was far more than that. it was deeper than the standard good superhero film.

I get all that. But I meant the writers of the comics appropriated the civil rights concept, not the characters.

The movie's ok, but can you see how awkward it was to kill off or villainize the PoC characters in that movie?

[Castle]

I get all that. But I meant the writers of the comics appropriated the civil rights concept, not the characters.

I think it is your choice to say so , you speaking from an MCU POV. however this will never be the 95% acceptance because there is no real truth about that concept with well written fiction stories that draw real world parallels.

I know it is hard that black panther or other mcu characters never went as deep as xmen or became significant as xmen with some of this themes, but this is not the way to go about it by constantly saying appropriation

Please you do know appropriation only becomes a thing when the people that steal, borrow or influence never acknowledged their true source? xmen has always acknowledged how the civil right issues changed how they wrote comics. also, world war 2 anti-Semitism.

nice.

[CosmiComic]

I think it is your choice to say so , you speaking from an MCU POV. however this will never be the 95% acceptance because there is no real truth about that concept with well written fiction stories that draw real world parallels.

I know it is hard that black panther or other mcu characters never went as deep as xmen or became significant as xmen with some of this themes, but this is not the way to go about it by constantly saying appropriation

Please you do know appropriation only becomes a thing when the people that steal, borrow or influence never acknowledged their true source? xmen has always acknowledged how the civil right issues changed how they wrote comics. also, world war 2 anti-Semitism.

nice.

Maybe appropriation is a harsh term, but they did copy it.

But why do you keep bashing the MCU?

[Castle]

Maybe appropriation is a harsh term, but they did copy it.

Fiction does not officially copy real world events issues that is plagiarism. you cannot even sue in courts for that because fiction is not real.

I think this forum needs more honest objective film criticism, to much superficial stuff about mcu is good /fox is bad stuff.it is boring me, that is not bashing to say so. neither is saying xmen told the themes better than any comic series has ever done is a bash to the other comic films and is not like i have not giving millions of proof to say so.

More from this movie on civil rights of first class that I liked though did not love because of the way mystique says it, mutant and proud, taking from the James Brown song. black and proud.

[CosmiComic]

Fiction does not officially copy real world events issues that is plagiarism. you cannot even sue in courts for that because fiction is not real.

I think this forum needs more honest objective film criticism, to much superficial stuff about mcu is good /fox is bad stuff.it is boring me, that is not bashing to say so. neither is saying xmen told the themes better than any comic series has ever done is a bash to the other comic films and is not like i have not giving millions of proof to say so.

More from this movie on civil rights of first class that I liked though did not love because of the way mystique says it, mutant and proud, taking from the James Brown song. black and proud.

Honestly, you're the one not being objective. You act like because the X-Men movies have some deep themes, the MCU is somehow terrible. You're entirely subjective.

[WebLurker]

My 2 cents is it was “meh” at best.

I think it was one of the better series installments, but I will freely concede that I subjectively prefer a lot of the other ones (heck, I like X1 and New Mutants better, even if First Class has arguably better craftsmanship then both).

As characters, they wasted the Hellfire Club.

Yeah, I do get that not all the characters can be given lots of story content, but none of them outside of Shaw were given characterization or anything. (I think that was one of the primary failings of the Fox series; supporting characters tended to be flat or window dressing.)

The choice of X-Men used was bizarre. It’s like they were worried about the non-existent Fox X-Men continuity.

Ironically, First Class was really the point that continuity got messed up. Prior to it, the movies hung together fairly well. My understanding is that First Class was intended to be a prequel, but they were only counting X1 and 2 (basically considering X3 and Origins: Wolverine non-canon). Hence why it fits together reasonably well with the first two movies but not the third one. However, then Days of Future Past was written as a sequel that counted all the previous movies, which then created discrepancies as they tried to mash things together. And it went on from there, to the point that continuity became optional. As annoying as it could be, I think they still got some good movies out of it, so I take it for what it is.

The ending scene on the beach was good, and not too far off from X-Men #1, which is its strength, I think — the nearly original uniforms and Magneto.

Yeah, the personal stakes with the final fight worked really well.

What the movie should have had was the original five. They could have substituted a lot of different villains in place of that crappy version of the Hellfire Club. They could’ve gone with Magneto more as a straight-up villain, got rid of the Hellfire Club, and brought in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, or maybe substitute Shaw with Bolivar Trask, leaving Hellfire out, and leaving Magneto’s anti-hero status in place. Or maybe the X-Men’s Lucifer? That could have been made to work as easily as Hellfire. That also could have been made to play into the comics continuity with how Xavier lost use of his legs (originally), which was Lucifer.

In the end, like most of the Fox versions of the X-Men, I feel like it was just okay, featuring a lot of odd characters who don’t really seem like the X-Men I know, but I liked seeing Xavier and Magneto fighting it out for the missiles, with some characters in close to the original yellow and blue uniforms. Like all the Fox X-Men movies at the end, I thought it could have been SO much better with several different character choices.

Instead, we got a “meh” product at best. It definitely lacked the power of the best movies out there, and it is not even among the top superhero fare.

I was okay with it for what it was, but that's me.

[numberthirty]

Fiction does not officially copy real world events issues that is plagiarism. you cannot even sue in courts for that because fiction is not real.

I think this forum needs more honest objective film criticism, to much superficial stuff about mcu is good /fox is bad stuff.it is boring me, that is not bashing to say so. neither is saying xmen told the themes better than any comic series has ever done is a bash to the other comic films and is not like i have not giving millions of proof to say so.

More from this movie on civil rights of first class that I liked though did not love because of the way mystique says it, mutant and proud, taking from the James Brown song. black and proud.

I haven't seen much that was even remotely "Objective..."

[numberthirty]

Actual objective criticism?

It would involve pointing out the reality that there is no way that this is the case...

...

More from this movie on civil rights of first class that I liked though did not love because of the way mystique says it, mutant and proud, taking from the James Brown song. black and proud.

If the events of X-Men: First Class take place in 1962 while the James Brown album Say It Loud - I'm Black And I'm Proud will not even be recorded until fall 1967 through fall 1968.

Never mind that the album would not be available to the public until early 1969.

[Killerbee911]

Good Movie but one of the worse adaptions of the X-men concept, This is the movie that messed up the X-men franchise. The liberties it takes with characters and continuity is what screws the movies that come after it. I have no problems with a movie world being its own continuity/universe but this movie takes Liberties for no reason and uses character choices but never acknowledges the connection. The best thing about First Class that set up DoFP(probably the best movie in the franchise) which unf*cks all the damage first class did to franchise concept-wise only for X-men apocalypse to ignore it and go right back to be BS.

This movie is the biggest example of how you can be a good movie but awful to your core concept. It is an A- or B+ as an actual movie but F as X-men movie for everything other than Xavier and Magneto relationship.

[Midvillian1322]

Good Movie but one of the worse adaptions of the X-men concept, This is the movie that messed up the X-men franchise. The liberties it takes with characters and continuity is what screws the movies that come after it. I have no problems with a movie world being its own continuity/universe but this movie takes Liberties for no reason and uses character choices but never acknowledges the connection. The best thing about First Class that set up DoFP(probably the best movie in the franchise) which unf*cks all the damage first class did to franchise concept-wise only for X-men apocalypse to ignore it and go right back to be BS.

This movie is the biggest example of how you can be a good movie but awful to your core concept. It is an A- or B+ as an actual movie but F as X-men movie for everything other than Xavier and Magneto relationship.

See I didn't even like what they did with that relationship. This epic friendship was really like a small fling. They weren't even friends for very long. I liked alot about XFC, mostly that unlike Singer Vaughn wasn't ashamed of being a Comicbook movie.

[Soubhagya]

If i had to rank the X-Men movies First Class will come at a solid number 2. Only behind Logan. I knew they were making more X-Men films. But i wasn't really interested, so i missed out. But one day it was playing on TV, and i caught the last act when Beast comes in his full form. I didn't even know that the guy he almost choked to death was Magneto. I really enjoyed the movie.

Later i watched the whole thing and remember loving it. The best is of course Charles and Erik. Their conversations were so engaging. Some scenes like when Charles help him relieve his old memory or lifting that submarine are some of the best scenes in any superhero movie imo. When Magneto says he forgot he had this memory with his mother, it is so moving and powerful.



I loved the recruitment part as well. X-Men films don't do much with the huge casts, and this was no exception. But i can remember the scenes and the characters. It was fun to watch the beginnings of X-Men. I wish they didn't keep jumping a decade in each movie. Honestly, i would have been happy if they kept it in the 60s and 70s. There was no need to connect to the original trilogy. Imo every X-Men should be done like this. .

It helps that this had the best music in any X-Men film. People praise Magneto's theme. And that is great. But there's more. The main theme, the recruitment music. That submarine lift. Not only was it good to hear, it was good to watch as well. The earlier films had a 'grounded' look. Only the 3rd movie looked somewhat good to me. But this was colorful. Like watching the animated stuff come to life.

The only weak points are the villains. Bacon was a good villain, even if he's nothing more then a generic villain. The other villains had good designs but weren't very memorable. Worst was Emma Frost. Bacon seemed so lively. Quietly evil. But she seemed to be bored.

So, in short its my favorite X-Men film. Logan isn't really an X-Men film tbh. The costumes alone are so pleasing. It was a major step up from all black matrix wannabes without the shades and trench coats.

[Killerbee911]

See I didn't even like what they did with that relationship. This epic friendship was really like a small fling. They weren't even friends for very long. I liked alot about XFC, mostly that unlike Singer Vaughn wasn't ashamed of being a Comicbook movie.

Their relationship is an adapted change that make sense with pushing of them as kind if Malcom/MLK figures and them wanting to make Magneto an antihero more than outright villain. To me it seem like a natural progression that they wanted to do in comic world with Magneto. I mean to this day we can still them pushing it in Krakoa.

[Castle]

Honestly, you're the one not being objective. You act like because the X-Men movies have some deep themes, the MCU is somehow terrible. You're entirely subjective.

Nope. never even did any of that. This was a thread about xmen first class, you and some others dragged mcu into it and i told you first class is not a standard mcu movie. i think if you want a slightly similar film in the mcu but very toned down. try captain America first avenger 2011. also sort of a period peiece movie set mostly in world war 2 but world war 2 is used as back dropped only.

I have always been objective.

I think it was one of the better series installments, but I will freely concede that I subjectively prefer a lot of the other ones (heck, I like X1 and New Mutants better, even if First Class has arguably better craftsmanship then both)..

For craftmanship, I don't see that with X1, A good example would be no other film in the series using the kind of cinematography first class uses or the kind of story telling. the biggest takeaway of First class craftsmanship was it did not need to be as grounded as X1/X2. What is also did was give Mathew Vaughn more spotlight as a director and made him a big fan favourite as a comic book director.

Having a conversation here on this forum about comic book directors in general and how if some qualify as real directors beyond their superhero movies, Vaughn is seen as one of the best directors in the genre and this is based of craftsmanship.

After First Class, which did beat X1 as a more socially conscious xmen film. He went on to make kick ass 1 and 2, kingsman service and DC almost hired him for Superman after Snyder. usually first class is ranked by his fans and critics in terms of craftsmanship as the best comic film he directed and he has made like 5 of them. all with his own signature style.

I now know a Vaughn film when I see one thanks to his craftmanship. Almost like Nolan or Singer.

Yeah, I do get that not all the characters can be given lots of story content, but none of them outside of Shaw were given characterization or anything. (I think that was one of the primary failings of the Fox series; supporting characters tended to be flat or window dressing.)

I sort of agreed with this, however as I said, for a movie how many characters can you give deep story content like Beast and his cure, when it is not light hearted action comic book comedy?


I think the only franchise that have many many characters story content beyond paint by number plots and big green screen worth been jealous over was the lord of the ring series and even lord of the rings fans were not satisfied with the characters, now there will be a Lord of the rings TV series, that will correct this shortcomings.

this is the only way to make things right with xmen first class

I haven't seen much that was even remotely "Objective..."

LOL. I have. I just think some could not handle it. Since you made this claim that Beast is only a big monster fighter and the scientist part of beast has no big meaning on his character. I think you need to see the clip.



It will be a top 3 moment of the film, and not because it showed one of the darkest parts of humanity , but most of all. it was a heartbreaking failed scientific experiment.

[Castle]

If i had to rank the X-Men movies First Class will come at a solid number 2. Only behind Logan. I knew they were making more X-Men films. But i wasn't really interested, so i missed out. But one day it was playing on TV, and i caught the last act when Beast comes in his full form. I didn't even know that the guy he almost choked to death was Magneto. I really enjoyed the movie.

Later i watched the whole thing and remember loving it. The best is of course Charles and Erik. Their conversations were so engaging. Some scenes like when Charles help him relieve his old memory or lifting that submarine are some of the best scenes in any superhero movie imo. When Magneto says he forgot he had this memory with his mother, it is so moving and powerful.


I loved the recruitment part as well. X-Men films don't do much with the huge casts, and this was no exception. But i can remember the scenes and the characters. It was fun to watch the beginnings of X-Men. I wish they didn't keep jumping a decade in each movie. Honestly, i would have been happy if they kept it in the 60s and 70s. There was no need to connect to the original trilogy. Imo every X-Men should be done like this. .

It helps that this had the best music in any X-Men film. People praise Magneto's theme. And that is great. But there's more. The main theme, the recruitment music. That submarine lift. Not only was it good to hear, it was good to watch as well. The earlier films had a 'grounded' look. Only the 3rd movie looked somewhat good to me. But this was colorful. Like watching the animated stuff come to life.

The only weak points are the villains. Bacon was a good villain, even if he's nothing more then a generic villain. The other villains had good designs but weren't very memorable. Worst was Emma Frost. Bacon seemed so lively. Quietly evil. But she seemed to be bored.

So, in short its my favorite X-Men film. Logan isn't really an X-Men film tbh. The costumes alone are so pleasing. It was a major step up from all black matrix wannabes without the shades and trench coats.

Phew, Finally some good criticism than me dragged into some other MCU POV criticism. boring.

6 years ago I would have said it was blasphemy to put first class as no 2. but now I don't have any issues with that. everything you said i mostly agree with, maybe except Shaw, I don't think Shaw went all that generic compared to what we have now with comic book villains, because he had a very cool and calm character and he had multiple agendas. I think one of the big strengths the film had, I see clearer now maybe above DOFP was the film characters had their own agenda with vague differences.

Also I dont know what to make of Shaw sadistic charming personality, this is the stuff of good villains, the opening scene where he tortures child magneto, he laugh as he kills magneto mum's point black and gives him money for that, it was one of the most cynical things a villain has ever done.


it's almost like Joker, the only thing is Joker is crazy, Shaw is mostly still of sound mind, which gave the movie another extra layer of darkness. you don't see in other films.

One of the reoccurring themes of xmen is about children been forced to grow up fast. We see this when child angel tries to shave his wings in X3 and there is blood everywhere with big knives or also in this first class where raven transform into an adult woman to steal food from Xavier's house before she turns into her blue and Xavier realises she is just a child, or even rogue kissing a boy in X1 as a teen, then realising she is a mutant and has to run away from home.

But Magneto in that nazi camp been abused by Shaw is the worst case example of just how brutal the X-Men universe can be even to children and the fact that it as the first scene of the movie. it said a lot about what was to come because by DOFP Killer Sentinel machines had started slaughtering all kinds of children (mutants kids and human kids that carry the x-gene and will have mutant kids in the future


The realization all of this, was just ....let me just say that there was always a reason xmen stories always got to me far more than fluff entertainment.