Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 79
  1. #16
    Mighty Member Brian B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    My 2 cents is it was “meh” at best.

    As characters, they wasted the Hellfire Club.

    The choice of X-Men used was bizarre. It’s like they were worried about the non-existent Fox X-Men continuity.

    The ending scene on the beach was good, and not too far off from X-Men #1, which is its strength, I think — the nearly original uniforms and Magneto.

    What the movie should have had was the original five. They could have substituted a lot of different villains in place of that crappy version of the Hellfire Club. They could’ve gone with Magneto more as a straight-up villain, got rid of the Hellfire Club, and brought in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, or maybe substitute Shaw with Bolivar Trask, leaving Hellfire out, and leaving Magneto’s anti-hero status in place. Or maybe the X-Men’s Lucifer? That could have been made to work as easily as Hellfire. That also could have been made to play into the comics continuity with how Xavier lost use of his legs (originally), which was Lucifer.

    In the end, like most of the Fox versions of the X-Men, I feel like it was just okay, featuring a lot of odd characters who don’t really seem like the X-Men I know, but I liked seeing Xavier and Magneto fighting it out for the missiles, with some characters in close to the original yellow and blue uniforms. Like all the Fox X-Men movies at the end, I thought it could have been SO much better with several different character choices.

    Instead, we got a “meh” product at best. It definitely lacked the power of the best movies out there, and it is not even among the top superhero fare.

  2. #17
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    3,052

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    My 2 cents is it was “meh” at best.

    As characters, they wasted the Hellfire Club.

    The choice of X-Men used was bizarre. It’s like they were worried about the non-existent Fox X-Men continuity.

    The ending scene on the beach was good, and not too far off from X-Men #1, which is its strength, I think — the nearly original uniforms and Magneto.
    .
    Fortunately I sort of agree , it could be seen as meh for someone that loves the more action cgi movies with little substance or deeper themes. First class was not the later,

    The choice of X-Men used was bizarre. It’s like they were worried about the non-existent Fox X-Men continuity.
    Agreed, I already called this a negative

    What the movie should have had was the original five. They could have substituted a lot of different villains in place of that crappy version of the Hellfire Club. They could’ve gone with Magneto more as a straight-up villain, got rid of the Hellfire Club, and brought in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, or maybe substitute Shaw with Bolivar Trask, leaving Hellfire out, and leaving Magneto’s anti-hero status in place. Or maybe the X-Men’s Lucifer? That could have been made to work as easily as Hellfire.
    I dont see to this but this proves the point that first class was not meant to be the typical film since magneto should never be a straight up villain. The issue with the hellfire club was they did not have all their members but that could have been too much for a movie, shaw was the main villain and he served his purpose.

    In the end, like most of the Fox versions of the X-Men, I feel like it was just okay, featuring a lot of odd characters who don’t really seem like the X-Men I know, but I liked seeing Xavier and Magneto fighting it out for the missiles, with some characters in close to the original yellow and blue uniforms. Like all the Fox X-Men movies at the end, I thought it could have been SO much better with several different character choices.
    I think it ends somewhere in between. a good fox and a bad fox but more good because of the last act, the good fox does end more with drama and forgoes the big cgi generic big fights that means nothing and cant even be used today to argue comic films have credible story telling and are not just about green screens,
    Instead, we got a “meh” product at best. It definitely lacked the power of the best movies out there, and it is not even among the top superhero fare.
    As I said it depends on what you want in comic films, I am looking at xmen from an xmen universe point of view, if you want more grounded drama driven comic book films with meaningful social commentary and strong performances like Michael Fassbender, this is one of the best and the far better ones from a film making point of view.

    You don't see many comic films today using the type of cinematography first class used that showed comic films are more than toy advertisement, but like i said more importantly first class is saved because of the screen play that put the real 60s era political landfare front and center than a standard typical generic comic book plot we expect.

    if truly you are more into cgi action driven comic book films with not much of a heavy plot, this wont be likely among the top comic films to you. However if you favour the more social conscious comic films , first class is among the top tier and that is a good thing since Movies like first class in the genre will age better not just for the topic it covered but because it was a stand alone done directed movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    My 2 cents is it was “meh” at best.

    As characters, they wasted the Hellfire Club.

    The choice of X-Men used was bizarre. It’s like they were worried about the non-existent Fox X-Men continuity.

    The ending scene on the beach was good, and not too far off from X-Men #1, which is its strength, I think — the nearly original uniforms and Magneto.
    .
    Fortunately I sort of agree , it could be seen as meh for someone that loves the more action cgi movies with little substance or deeper themes. First class was not the later,

    The choice of X-Men used was bizarre. It’s like they were worried about the non-existent Fox X-Men continuity.
    Agreed, I already called this a negative

    What the movie should have had was the original five. They could have substituted a lot of different villains in place of that crappy version of the Hellfire Club. They could’ve gone with Magneto more as a straight-up villain, got rid of the Hellfire Club, and brought in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, or maybe substitute Shaw with Bolivar Trask, leaving Hellfire out, and leaving Magneto’s anti-hero status in place. Or maybe the X-Men’s Lucifer? That could have been made to work as easily as Hellfire.
    I dont see to this but this proves the point that first class was not meant to be the typical film since magneto should never be a straight up villain. The issue with the hellfire club was they did not have all their members but that could have been too much for a movie, shaw was the main villain and he served his purpose.

    In the end, like most of the Fox versions of the X-Men, I feel like it was just okay, featuring a lot of odd characters who don’t really seem like the X-Men I know, but I liked seeing Xavier and Magneto fighting it out for the missiles, with some characters in close to the original yellow and blue uniforms. Like all the Fox X-Men movies at the end, I thought it could have been SO much better with several different character choices.
    I think it ends somewhere in between. a good fox and a bad fox but more good because of the last act, the good fox does end more with drama and forgoes the big cgi generic big fights that means nothing and cant even be used today to argue comic films have credible story telling and are not just about green screens,
    Instead, we got a “meh” product at best. It definitely lacked the power of the best movies out there, and it is not even among the top superhero fare.
    As I said it depends on what you want in comic films, I am looking at xmen first from an xmen universe point of view, if you want more grounded drama driven comic book films with meaningful social commentary and strong performances like Michael Fassbender and James as the co leads, this is one of the best and the far better ones from a film making point of view.

    You don't see many comic films today using the type of cinematography first class used that showed comic films are more than toy advertisement, but like i said more importantly first class is saved because of the screen play that put the real 60s era political landfare front and center than a standard typical generic comic book plot we expect.

    if truly you are more into cgi action driven comic book films with not much of a heavy plot, this wont be likely among the top comic films to you. However if you favour the more social conscious comic films , first class is among the top tier and that is a good thing since Movies like first class in the genre will age better not just for the political topics it covered but because it was a stand alone era kind of movie.
    Last edited by Castle; 03-06-2021 at 09:33 AM.

  3. #18
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    11,186

    Default

    My problems with First Class is the side characters are once again wasted, continuing that precedence from the previous trilogy, and in a movie about "prejudice is bad", the black guy dies and the mixed-race woman joins the villains.

    Plus, the timeline is messed up because, while I really like McAvoy's and Fassbender's performances, they were both a decade too old to play those characters in 1962. And Beast wasn't that old either, was he?

    Finally, why is Mystique the Professor's sister?

  4. #19
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    3,052

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    My problems with First Class is the side characters are once again wasted, continuing that precedence from the previous trilogy, and in a movie about "prejudice is bad", the black guy dies and the mixed-race woman joins the villains.
    ?

    Like I already said, xmen would have been better as a tv show, there are just too many characters for an xmen universe were you need to have a real actual screenplay to work outside of the CGI and action scenes.

    Black Guy dies was controversial, however it fitted the themes of the 1960s that black people have it worse

    Angel gave good reasons for joining the vilain . is shaw even a villain from an in-universe POV because from that POV the line between heroes and villains in xmen is always blurred.

  5. #20
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    11,186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    Like I already said, xmen would have been better as a tv show, there are just too many characters for an xmen universe were you need to have a real actual screenplay to work outside of the CGI and action scenes.

    Black Guy dies was controversial, however it fitted the themes of the 1960s that black people have it worse

    Angel gave good reasons for joining the vilain . is shaw even a villain from an in-universe POV because from that POV the line between heroes and villains in xmen is always blurred.
    It's true black people were treated worse in the 60s, but appropriating the civil rights struggle from that era into the movie and then doing that and making the Angel a villainess seemed to be in poor taste.

    Shaw seemed villainous to me, considering he was willing to cause the deaths of millions.

  6. #21
    Mighty Member Brian B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    ...if you want more grounded drama driven comic book films with meaningful social commentary and strong performances like Michael Fassbender, this is one of the best and the far better ones from a film making point of view.

    You don't see many comic films today using the type of cinematography first class used...
    I couldn’t disagree more. First Class ain’t no Raging Bull or even something fun like 2001. It’s not even the Christopher Reeve’s Superman.

    It fails as a serious film, by any measure.

    As superhero fare, as I opined, it’s “meh.”

  7. #22
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    11,186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    I couldn’t disagree more. First Class ain’t no Raging Bull or even something fun like 2001. It’s not even the Christopher Reeve’s Superman.

    It fails as a serious film, by any measure.

    As superhero fare, as I opined, it’s “meh.”
    I don't think 2001 is fun or great as a character movie, just more as visuals. But then again I'm not a Kubrick fan.

  8. #23
    Mighty Member Brian B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I don't think 2001 is fun or great as a character movie, just more as visuals. But then again I'm not a Kubrick fan.
    You mentioned cinematography. There’s a LOT to criticize among Kubrick’s oeuvre, see the New Yorker’s dearly departed Pauline Kael for details. But even she couldn’t deny how well he made his special effects appear on screen or his mastery of cinematography. So, I am mentioning 2001 specifically as an example of blending special effects and cinematography in a (by 60s’ standards) big-budget blockbuster. I am not holding Kubrick up as part of his cult, although I like some of his movies. But I dislike some of them, too. I don’t think he did human emotion too well. He’s too cruel.

    Anyway, you can’t even discuss most superhero movies in even those terms. They’re mostly just the tent pole for cross-promotional marketing. By those standards, First Class does not measure up.

    By the standard of real stories and real movies — real films, not superheroes — First Class isn’t even a pile of crap. It’s not even that good or interesting, it’s so “meh.”

    To be fair, Origins Wolverine, Last Stand, Apocalypse, and Dark Phoenix are all much worse, maybe Days of Future Past is worse, too.
    Last edited by Brian B; 03-06-2021 at 11:13 AM.

  9. #24
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    11,186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    You mentioned cinematography. There’s a LOT to criticize among Kubrick’s oeuvre, see the New Yorker’s dearly departed Pauline Kael for details. But even she couldn’t deny how well he made his special effects appear on screen or his mastery of cinematography. So, I am mentioning 2001 specifically as an example of blending special effects and cinematography in a (by 60s’ standards) big-budget blockbuster. I am not holding Kubrick up as part of his cult, although I like some of his movies. But I dislike some of them, too. I don’t think he did human emotion too well. He’s too cruel.

    Anyway, you can’t even discuss most superhero movies in even those terms. They’re mostly just the tent pole for cross-promotional marketing. By those standards, First Class does not measure up.

    By the standard of real stories and real movies — real films, not superheroes — First Class isn’t even a pile of crap. It’s not even that good or interesting, it’s so “meh.”

    To be fair, Origins Wolverine, Last Stand, Apocalypse, and Dark Phoenix are all much worse, maybe Days of Future Past is worse, too.
    I'm all to well aware of the cynical corporate nature of Hollywood. I'm not going to cry for corporations with billion dollar profits. But I wouldn't necessarily reduce all superhero movies to just being cross promotion. Many artist put a lot of work in the comics and the movies, and they can have meaning and depth. They're real too. Heck, WandaVision had more human emotion than 2001. So I wouldn't be "art cynical" either.But i wouldn't compare blockbusters in general to artistic movies either in terms of innovation, nor reject artistic efforts in indie movies or dialogue heavy films which audiences don't always say or arrogantly dismiss as "pretentious", unless they are pretentious like Birdman. There's a place for both, and neither are beyond criticism, nor without merit.

    But I agree on 2001. The cinematography was great, but there wasn't any humanity.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,090

    Default

    For me, First Class is a mixed bag where the good outweighs the bad, but there is a lot of bad, or at least 'meh'. McAvoy and Fassbender are great, and their chemistry is through the roof; January Jones is bad, and they stick her in that embarrassing costume that doesn't work, imo; the training scenes with the new recruits are fun; Edi Gathegi is a superb actor wasted, and killing him and turning the only other person of colour evil made me wince in the cinema; there are terrific scenes (eg' Erik killing Nazis); there are some awful scenes and dialogue ('mutant and proud' I just find ham-fisted). Really the film jumps from great moments to bad, and just keeps up that pattern. For me, perhaps the biggest mistake as far as being a first movie in a new series of X-films was having Erik turn on the group at the end, as well as crippling Xavier - bearing in mind that arguably the biggest strength of First Class was the chemistry between the two leads and watching them work together, splitting Erik off from Charles meant that subsequent films had to bring them back together, only to turn Magneto evil again. It was stupid, and it just got worse with each film. It would have been much better to keep Erik good for at least another film, though occasionally at loggerheads with Charles over the methods they should use.

    Overall it has huge amounts of talent involved and bags of potential, but squanders a lot of it.

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    11,186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    For me, First Class is a mixed bag where the good outweighs the bad, but there is a lot of bad, or at least 'meh'. McAvoy and Fassbender are great, and their chemistry is through the roof; January Jones is bad, and they stick her in that embarrassing costume that doesn't work, imo; the training scenes with the new recruits are fun; Edi Gathegi is a superb actor wasted, and killing him and turning the only other person of colour evil made me wince in the cinema; there are terrific scenes (eg' Erik killing Nazis); there are some awful scenes and dialogue ('mutant and proud' I just find ham-fisted). Really the film jumps from great moments to bad, and just keeps up that pattern. For me, perhaps the biggest mistake as far as being a first movie in a new series of X-films was having Erik turn on the group at the end, as well as crippling Xavier - bearing in mind that arguably the biggest strength of First Class was the chemistry between the two leads and watching them work together, splitting Erik off from Charles meant that subsequent films had to bring them back together, only to turn Magneto evil again. It was stupid, and it just got worse with each film. It would have been much better to keep Erik good for at least another film, though occasionally at loggerheads with Charles over the methods they should use.

    Overall it has huge amounts of talent involved and bags of potential, but squanders a lot of it.
    I don't agree on the good Erik thing. What I hated in later movie was him flip-flopping. The rest of your points are spot on.

  12. #27
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    3,090

    Default

    The flip-flopping was ridiculous.

  13. #28
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    11,186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    The flip-flopping was ridiculous.
    I know, right. The evolution of character was so wishy washy. And he was still best part of most of those movies, because God forbid the X-Men movies be about the X-Men!

  14. #29
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    3,052

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    You mentioned cinematography. There’s a LOT to criticize among Kubrick’s oeuvre, see the New Yorker’s dearly departed Pauline Kael for details. But even she couldn’t deny how well he made his special effects appear on screen or his mastery of cinematography. So, I am mentioning 2001 specifically as an example of blending special effects and cinematography.
    I think this scene disagrees with that though, from a different angle. check out the cinema shot of magneto and how the camera goes right to the nazis from magneto's pov and how the light captures it. it's serene.



    I was going to use the england's bar scene better, when we see charles tells a girl she is a mutant because she has vertigo,. check that scene out , the light and color and camera shot of charles framing them together.

    Anyway, you can’t even discuss most superhero movies in even those terms. They’re mostly just the tent pole for cross-promotional marketing. By those standards, First Class does not measure up.
    LOL. first class does not messure up because the goal of first class was to tell a different kind of comic book movie and it worked,a more serious kind, I think it was a blessing marvel were not even making toys or making cartoons for more marketing because it meant the movie would just be the period setting that it was going for with any of the usual comic book marketing gimmick.

    By the standard of real stories and real movies — real films, not superheroes — First Class isn’t even a pile of crap. It’s not even that good or interesting, it’s so “meh.”
    i think i said real stories, in the comic book genre that gets crapped on by the director of raging bulls for been theme parks.

    when the director of raging bulls, calls marvel comic films all theme parks with no real story, it will be better to show him films like first class, he has a better chance of changing his mind with that.
    To be fair, Origins Wolverine, Last Stand, Apocalypse, and Dark Phoenix are all much worse, maybe Days of Future Past is worse, too.
    thankfully this is only an MCU talking point that has no bearing in reality of cinematic film making. in the long run, it is better to have bad movies directed by a film maker, because you learn as a film maker.

    DOFP was near perfect though, it a film that no xmen film will ever come close to again, the Evan QS obsession is just a confirmation of that , some may chase the movie but will never measure it again.

    I hope this thread gets back to discussing the film's content that truly matters.
    Last edited by Castle; 03-06-2021 at 03:25 PM.

  15. #30
    Ultimate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    11,186

    Default

    Why are people still using that Scorsese quote? I like his films and he has some valid complaints about things but he's wrong on this account, as are other filmmakers making this same claim.

    Castle, you don't have to keep making up nonsense to prove your point, ok

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •