America Chavez #1

[Drops Of Venus]

This isn't a bad origin story but we still have the Wiccan connection and Abuela to deal with.

There is no Wiccan connection to explain anymore. If she hallucinated everything about the Parallel, that includes the Demiurge stuff. It was just never real to her. It really cheapens her entire role in Young Avengers, but it is what it is.

Her grandmother, though.... yeah, we're gonna need an explanation about that, since it wasn't just a memory about her past, but someone she met in the present. If she hallucinated that entire experience too... well, maybe it's time for Ms. Chavez to get her head checked, 'cause that **** ain't normal.

Didn't all the best ideas for America Chavez come from Joe Casey and Rivera just...made them worse? Can you bring up one thing that Rivera brought to the character that had nothing to do with Casey that was worth keeping?

You spelled Kieron Gillen wrong. Joe Casey was such a forgettable writer for America that he tried to recreate her for Image and ended up copying stuff that Gillen created, because that's how much more remarkable his version of MAC is. America would quite literally not be where she is today without Gillen. He was the one who made her ''a ticket to the multiverse'', and that's what got her in the MCU.

And there was one good thing that Rivera established: the Santana family.

[Triniking1234]

There is no Wiccan connection to explain anymore. If she hallucinated everything about the Parallel, that includes the Demiurge stuff. It was just never real to her. It really cheapens her entire role in Young Avengers, but it is what it is.

She hallucinated the Demiurge stuff but the Demiurge stuff was actually true or were Loki and Mother in on the scam?

[Journey]

She hallucinated the Demiurge stuff but the Demiurge stuff was actually true or were Loki and Mother in on the scam?

Doubtful since you have that other planet with the little people being like "Demiurge" "Demiurge" "Demiurge" & a giant Billy in the sky, & he legit used those powers to do away with mother. Just furthering the fact this retcon makes no sense so many plotholes.

[Drops Of Venus]

She hallucinated the Demiurge stuff but the Demiurge stuff was actually true or were Loki and Mother in on the scam?

Kalinda Vasquez will only take the Demiurge stuff away from my hands when they're cold and dead.

But, in all seriousness... I think we can just assume that all that stuff was real to Billy and Loki, just not to America. At least that's my interpretation. The whole story quite literally doesn't work if there wasn't a real Demiurge. Billy's powers are the driving force behind the entire thing. It's what causes Mother to come into their dimension, and it's ultimately what defeats her too. Marvel would be crazy stupid to let this one miniseries render Gillen's entire work useless.

[Thor-Ul]

Kalinda Vasquez will only take the Demiurge stuff away from my hands when they're cold and dead.

But, in all seriousness... I think we can just assume that all that stuff was real to Billy and Loki, just not to America. At least that's my interpretation. The whole story quite literally doesn't work if there wasn't a real Demiurge. Billy's powers are the driving force behind the entire thing. It's what causes Mother to come into their dimension, and it's ultimately what defeats her too. Marvel would be crazy stupid to let this one miniseries render Gillen's entire work useless.

Marvel can be crazy stupid sometimes, don't be surprised. But there is always the hope than the story will be fixed in the future soon. Only, I don't think it will be the next month.

In the meanwhile....

Welcome to the wonderful wonderful wonderful world of retcons, Ms. America CHavez! Where contradictory stories are published endlessly and could pass years or months before an explanation is given or even never it is going be explained at all!

[Journey]

This trash Mini doesn't effect Billy he's way too important to be effected by a run no one's even reading.

[Fokken]

She hallucinated the Demiurge stuff but the Demiurge stuff was actually true or were Loki and Mother in on the scam?

Right?
I can rationalize the fabrication of a pocket dimension paradise where her mothers are the supreme heroes that died protecting her and the other "princesses". This current mini actually handles THAT aspect rather well --very grounded-- regardless of my own preferences toward the fantastical.

HOWEVER -- either the Demiurge stuff was magically planted in her mind (by Loki?) to ensure her involvement with the Style>Substance arc or..... or this retcon is just plain flawed.

I need a timeline breakdown. Help me out Fam.

So, we have this mini depicting her earliest memories.
America and Catalina, along with all the other youths, gain powers via science experiment.
Their foster moms die trying to save them and America and Catalina get separated.
America washes up on Jones beach, New York, and adopted by the Santanas.
A therapy session not only reveals that America insists she came from the Utopian Parallel but that she also has powers.
She uses said powers as she grows, defending against injustice.
Eventually she is convinced she is a danger to her adoptive family and..... leaves(?) to pursue a life of heroics to honor her "super moms"

Aaaaaand then we....assume that between THAT departure and the events of Joe Casey's Vengeance, she's been dimension/world hopping making a difference when and where she can (as is implied during Gillen's run)

MEANWHILE -- the insanity that is her previous solo is a further(??) escalation of her trauma induced, mental illness???
Maybe the events of Civil War II, being unable to save War Machine from being murdered, and the near-death-experience with Thanos triggered and exacerbated that buried trauma, and to COPE (again) she pursues another delusion (Super University) which -- if THAT whole mini was another grandiose delusion, then at least that explains how terribly written it was with so many errors, missteps, poor characterization, etc etc (I guess???)

But yeah.
SAD No Prize: Loki magically manipulated America's trauma induced delusion, crafting Billy Kaplan's Demiurge into the narrative she built, to ensure her involvement (similarly to how he also planted the idea of "being the best boyfriend ever" into Billy's mind as he slept, which put all of the events of Gillen's multiversal chaos in motion)


WOOF.

[Thor-Ul]

Right?
I can rationalize the fabrication of a pocket dimension paradise where her mothers are the supreme heroes that died protecting her and the other "princesses". This current mini actually handles THAT aspect rather well --very grounded-- regardless of my own preferences toward the fantastical.

I think that is the quid of the series. Make her more "grounded". I have dealing with another retcons and you have to accept them until the retcon it is unmade. If it is unmade.

HOWEVER -- either the Demiurge stuff was magically planted in her mind (by Loki?) to ensure her involvement with the Style>Substance arc or..... or this retcon is just plain flawed.

Still there are aspects not explained than later writers can use to unretcon or to double down on the change. Retcons never come alone, it is more like a groupo of retcons together.

I need a timeline breakdown. Help me out Fam.

So, we have this mini depicting her earliest memories.
America and Catalina, along with all the other youths, gain powers via science experiment.
Their foster moms die trying to save them and America and Catalina get separated.
America washes up on Jones beach, New York, and adopted by the Santanas.
A therapy session not only reveals that America insists she came from the Utopian Parallel but that she also has powers.
She uses said powers as she grows, defending against injustice.
Eventually she is convinced she is a danger to her adoptive family and..... leaves(?) to pursue a life of heroics to honor her "super moms"

Basically

Aaaaaand then we....assume that between THAT departure and the events of Joe Casey's Vengeance, she's been dimension/world hopping making a difference when and where she can (as is implied during Gillen's run)

Still to be explained, we could suppose.

MEANWHILE -- the insanity that is her previous solo is a further(??) escalation of her trauma induced, mental illness???
Maybe the events of Civil War II, being unable to save War Machine from being murdered, and the near-death-experience with Thanos triggered and exacerbated that buried trauma, and to COPE (again) she pursues another delusion (Super University) which -- if THAT whole mini was another grandiose delusion, then at least that explains how terribly written it was with so many errors, missteps, poor characterization, etc etc (I guess???)

The idea of the whole Rivera run being an hallucination I think would be applauded for many people. Also remember, Rivera also made a retcon on America origin.

But yeah.
SAD No Prize: Loki magically manipulated America's trauma induced delusion, crafting Billy Kaplan's Demiurge into the narrative she built, to ensure her involvement (similarly to how he also planted the idea of "being the best boyfriend ever" into Billy's mind as he slept, which put all of the events of Gillen's multiversal chaos in motion)

Loki is Loki, in any iteration.

WOOF.

Who is the best? Who is the best? You are!!

[Bunch of Coconuts]

MAC is gonna wind up bring the “Donna Troy” of the MU.

[lordozone]

Yeah this run is the polar opposite of the Gabby Rivera run: The writing of Rivera was abysmal, the characters insufferable, the plot non-sensical, but there was a ton of crazy ideas. Here it's well-written, the character are fully formed and sympathetic, the plot is clear, but there is no ideas, everything is by-the-numbers, the characters are bland and you have seen this kind of story a hundred times in comics. I prefer a competent writer, but this mini will not help America Chavez in the long term and the character will continue her descent into irrelevance, and it's a pity because I love America Chavez and i think she has a lot of potential. Give me a Joe Casey or Kieron Gillen every day.

[Micabe]

She hallucinated the Demiurge stuff but the Demiurge stuff was actually true or were Loki and Mother in on the scam?

So this means that America Chavez no longer has two "biological" mommies, right?

[king of hybrids]

So this means that America Chavez no longer has two "biological" mommies, right?

Mad SCIENCE! Is sufficiently along that I wouldn’t rule out the biological part

[nightw1ng]

I just got around to this mini, and all I can say is WTF? America's origin was already established. Why would they completely rewrite it and make it less special and magical?

It'd be hilarious/sad if they did it based on what they heard the MCU is doing with her. Look at what happened with Carol Danvers. The trailers made it seem like Carol was Kree, so they made her part Kree in the comics and said that's where her powers came from, but it turns out it was all a ruse and now we're stuck with the half-alien origin.

[Thor-Ul]

I just got around to this mini, and all I can say is WTF? America's origin was already established. Why would they completely rewrite it and make it less special and magical?

It'd be hilarious/sad if they did it based on what they heard the MCU is doing with her. Look at what happened with Carol Danvers. The trailers made it seem like Carol was Kree, so they made her part Kree in the comics and said that's where her powers came from, but it turns out it was all a ruse and now we're stuck with the half-alien origin.

You have a point there, in fact, there is no evidence than this series is asked to match the origin of America in the MCU and is mostly speculation.
Your example of Captain Marvel is very good, but you are forgetting a pivotal difference with the case of Captain Marvel: Kevin Feige.

Captain Marvel was released in february of 2019 and Feige became the überboss of Marvel (Not only movies, but animation, tv, series, and comics) in October 2019. If you remember before that there was a powerplay between Marvel Entertaiment (Comics, TV, series, animation) and Marvel Studios, under the control of Feige and the first win for Feige was to gain independence for Marvel Studios from Marvel Entertaiment in 2015 becoming its own entity. A lot of proyects where changed (cancelling the Inhumans movie for example) and the next movie of Marvel Studios, Dr. Strange (2016), started to use images from the movies for its opening scene and minimizing the comic's images. Feige is a man who looks in the details.

Now Feige controls everything and even if comics can be a small section of his designs of global domination, I think he maybe had improved the comunication between the different departaments. So if he had that degree of control and observation to the details, he can be asked for such change or than there is coherence n the different versions of the characters.

But until Dr. Strange: MoM debuts, we will know nothing for sure, even if there is a "script leaking".

Meanwhile, enjoy the retcon.

[The Cool Thatguy]

You have a point there, in fact, there is no evidence than this series is asked to match the origin of America in the MCU and is mostly speculation.
Your example of Captain Marvel is very good, but you are forgetting a pivotal difference with the case of Captain Marvel: Kevin Feige.

Captain Marvel was released in february of 2019 and Feige became the überboss of Marvel (Not only movies, but animation, tv, series, and comics) in October 2019. If you remember before that there was a powerplay between Marvel Entertaiment (Comics, TV, series, animation) and Marvel Studios, under the control of Feige and the first win for Feige was to gain independence for Marvel Studios from Marvel Entertaiment in 2015 becoming its own entity. A lot of proyects where changed (cancelling the Inhumans movie for example) and the next movie of Marvel Studios, Dr. Strange (2016), started to use images from the movies for its opening scene and minimizing the comic's images. Feige is a man who looks in the details.

Now Feige controls everything and even if comics can be a small section of his designs of global domination, I think he maybe had improved the comunication between the different departaments. So if he had that degree of control and observation to the details, he can be asked for such change or than there is coherence n the different versions of the characters.

But until Dr. Strange: MoM debuts, we will know nothing for sure, even if there is a "script leaking".

Meanwhile, enjoy the retcon.

Yeah, this.

Though, look at the difference between Carol's retcon and her movie. They revealed that her powers were because of hybrid heritage, and the movie simply changed it so that Carol was the one who shot the plot devise that gave her her powers