Gorilla City thoughts and questions

[Tzigone]

I'm not up on all the latest retcons--are the gorillas in Gorilla City not real gorillas?

I haven't read the story, but was referencing the Origin from DC Super Stars #14 where they were aliens from the planet Calor.

[DrNewGod]

That it’s the most advanced civilization in Africa

That's a fair point.

[Riv86672]

I must be obtuse. What's problematic?

That it’s the most advanced civilization in Africa

I don’t see the problem there.
It’s not like anyone’s saying the rest of Africa is in the Stone Age.

[DrNewGod]

I don’t see the problem there.
It’s not like anyone’s saying the rest of Africa is in the Stone Age.

Riv? Racists have been comparing black people to apes for centuries. That makes posing Gorilla City as the most advanced culture in Africa problematic.

As much as I love Grodd, and his millieu, they require a very deft pen.

[Tzigone]

Riv? Racists have been comparing black people to apes for centuries. That makes posing Gorilla City as the most advanced culture in Africa problematic.

As much as I love Grodd, and his millieu, they require a very deft pen.

You seem not to be acknowledging though, that Gorilla City isn't just the most technologically advanced culture in Africa, it's the most advanced culture in the world*. It's so far beyond the US, it isn't even funny. Well, actually, it can be a bit funny.


*Well, advanced beyond the real world. There are some other fictional societies in DC that give it a run for its money.

[Riv86672]

Yeah it’s only a problem if you make it one.
Personally I don’t try and make everything about race. I’m not giving up my ability to enjoy things because of what other ppl read into those things. I’m a black guy and think Gorilla City’s cool. I’m also a huge fan of ERB’s Tarzan and Marvel’s Ka-Zar. I like B’Wana Beast better than Freedom Beast, etc.
But I’m also not looking to start a debate on the matter as these things never go anywhere.

Out.

[Ascended]

I haven't read the story, but was referencing the Origin from DC Super Stars #14 where they were aliens from the planet Calor.

I think they're back to the "hyper evolved by meteorite radiation" origin....or maybe it's "hyper evolved by the speed force or sage force" now, I'm not sure. But either way I'm *fairly* certain they're earthling gorillas again.

Anyway, I gotta agree with the others, Gorilla City is a fun idea but hot damn it looks racist without even trying. No real consistency to their culture beyond Solovar being a king and Grodd being a douchebanana.

If we must have a "DC multiverse unified theory" where the speed force is only one of several interconnected fields, then I like Gorilla City having a connection to that, and I like the idea that they're technologically advanced but are still apes with a wildly different social and cultural setup than anything we're familiar with. But beyond those basic concepts there isn't really much to pull from on the page; each time a creator takes us to Gorilla City it's practically a different place.

Manapul toyed with the idea of them having a shamanic kind of religion where they worshiped the speed force, which was pretty interesting, and I think Williamson had them gain their intelligence from the sage force (???). I feel like there might be potential in the idea of them gaining their technology/cerebral development from a deep understanding of these higher-level forces, but I'm not fond of Williamson's forces and would just as soon forget about the sage and strength forces.

I guess the Jimmy Olsen series from last year spent some time in Gorilla City, but I decided to trade wait it and don't think it's been released yet so I can't comment on what Fraction did.

[Jim Kelly]

What is racist about advanced gorillas? Is PLANET OF THE APES racist? I feel like there are many steps here that someone has to make in their mind to get from advanced gorillas to racism.

Gorillas come from Africa. Human beings come from Africa. Our evolution is inter-related. That's just the scientific reality. If another hominid developed alongside humans and survived extinction and was existing now--would that be racist? It's pure chance--maybe we murdered all our cousins--that there isn't another hominid on the Earth right now at the same level of development as us or even one beyond our own development. Where is the racism in primotology, anthropology and evolutionary science?

[Agent Z]

What is racist about advanced gorillas?

Nothing. Them being more advanced than the rest of Africa is the issue.

[Franny6422]

Thoughts & Questions. Hmmmm Can we still travel there or are Covid restrictions in place?

[John Venus]

It's the fact that it's the most advanced city in Africa that's the problem. Set it somewhere else and there wouldn't be an issue.

[OopsIdiditagain]

There was an entire scientific field dedicated to proofing how inferior Africans/Black people were by comparing them to primates. I can see why Gorilla City gets called problematic.

[Agent Z]

I'd just have them be aliens from another planet or dimension.

[Ascended]

What is racist about advanced gorillas?

In and of itself, nothing. But calling black people "apes" or "gorillas" is an old timey term and super racist, like using the n-word levels of racist. So the most advanced place in Africa being populated by apes? It's a little screwy. I'm not saying that was done with racist intentions or anything, but the optics aren't great.

The fact that the City is among the most advanced societies on earth makes it a little better, and the more you dig into the place and actually read the stories the more you realize that there isn't really anything innately racist in the concept, but at a glance it *looks* questionable.

[The Cool Thatguy]

In and of itself, nothing. But calling black people "apes" or "gorillas" is an old timey term and super racist, like using the n-word levels of racist. So the most advanced place in Africa being populated by apes? It's a little screwy. I'm not saying that was done with racist intentions or anything, but the optics aren't great.

The fact that the City is among the most advanced societies on earth makes it a little better, and the more you dig into the place and actually read the stories the more you realize that there isn't really anything innately racist in the concept, but at a glance it *looks* questionable.

Agreed, it looks objectionable, but its little more than your average 'hidden society' that doesn't really invoke or even use any real world symbolism. It's little more than an origin for Gorilla Grodd