X-Men reboot currently being called "The Mutants"

[Silvermoth]

I think the problem with the foxverse xmen is it wasn’t exactly the most diverse company and I think they thought the minority metaphor was like “what if I came out as conservative and people were mean to me?” Like, irl they were more likely to stand with Stryker or the friends of humanity than the xmen and it showed

[CosmiComic]

I think the problem with the foxverse xmen is it wasn’t exactly the most diverse company and I think they thought the minority metaphor was like “what if I came out as conservative and people were mean to me?” Like, irl they were more likely to stand with Stryker or the friends of humanity than the xmen and it showed

Haha, I never thought of it like that

[gonnagiveittoya]

Yeah, plus all that inappropriate behavior by Singer

True but I'm referring to the stuff that specifically makes him hard to work with as a director

[CosmiComic]

True but I'm referring to the stuff that specifically makes him hard to work with as a director

I know. I was just adding extra.

The main problem with Singer was, aside from being absent, was disrespecting the source material

[Wolverine12]

I know. I was just adding extra.

The main problem with Singer was, aside from being absent, was disrespecting the source material

This is something I will never understand. Movies=/=Comics. They can be completely separate entities and both be good in their own right. There are definitely valid criticisms to be made about the fox movies (and the mcu) but the one critique I can't get behind is "it's not the same as the comics."

X2 is a good film, DOFP is a great film, Logan should've won some Oscar's, none of these movies were really close to the source material at all but they all were critically and financially successful. Not picking on you specifically because there are a lot of people who agree with you but I just wanted to add my two cents.

[CosmiComic]

This is something I will never understand. Movies=/=Comics. They can be completely separate entities and both be good in their own right. There are definitely valid criticisms to be made about the fox movies (and the mcu) but the one critique I can't get behind is "it's not the same as the comics."

X2 is a good film, DOFP is a great film, Logan should've won some Oscar's, none of these movies were really close to the source material at all but they all were critically and financially successful. Not picking on you specifically because there are a lot of people who agree with you but I just wanted to add my two cents.

Well, changes aren't necessarily wrong, but he didn't involve most of the characters into the plot, banned the actors from reading the source material, and didn't even give them there costumes. By 2016 he was still making movies like it was 2003

[Lucyinthesky]

Agreed. I think Singer main problem was that he was not interested in developing the characters besides a couple of them and the movies suffered for it because people went to the cinema expecting to see a X-men movie or a good story and appart from some exceptions like DOFP and Logan, most of the time, they saw a sort of sci fi movie who happened to have some X-men on it with semi-realist costumes and characters whose names we barely knew. In a big way the actors carried the movies and the story but there was so much they could do on their own.

[ChronoRogue]

This is something I will never understand. Movies=/=Comics. They can be completely separate entities and both be good in their own right. There are definitely valid criticisms to be made about the fox movies (and the mcu) but the one critique I can't get behind is "it's not the same as the comics."

X2 is a good film, DOFP is a great film, Logan should've won some Oscar's, none of these movies were really close to the source material at all but they all were critically and financially successful. Not picking on you specifically because there are a lot of people who agree with you but I just wanted to add my two cents.

My problem with that is at a certain point when you separate so much from the source material, it becomes... something else entirely.

I'm not at all kidding when I say if the X-Men Fox movies were all that I was exposed to with the X-Men, I would have never have become a fan. They don't embody at all what made me a big fan of the franchise.

the fox movies are missing; found family themes, female empowerment, and a wide focus and variety of characters. thank god for CC

MCU is different from the comics, but they do a better job at keeping the same general characteristics of the characters. It's not perfect but it's there. Same can said for several cartoon adaptations like TAS or even Evolution.

This is not true of the Fox movies, the characters are almost unrecognizable to me.

[CosmiComic]

The thing is many artists put years of work into comic book storylines, so why write new, more generic storylines for movies?

And why not actually have color in costumes!?

[Wolverine12]

Well, changes aren't necessarily wrong, but he didn't involve most of the characters into the plot, banned the actors from reading the source material, and didn't even give them there costumes. By 2016 he was still making movies like it was 2003

That doesn't really refute the point that the movies I listed were all good to exceptional level films. X-Men and X2 built the foundation for the MCU, they had to be innovative because nothing had really come like that before it. I would never say that DOFP was made like his earlier films, that film is a stand out imo, Apocalypse was disappointing I will admit that though, the level Apocalypse was portrayed at did not due the villain justice in any sense. As far as costumes are concerned, I've always thought this was really a personal preference more than a criticism. For instance I think the Ultimate X-Men uniforms look much better than 616 with a few possible exceptions, but overall I prefer that look than the bright colors and spandex look.

Again, this isn't aimed at you specifically or really anyone it's just I've always looked at the comics as one thing and movies as another.

My problem with that is at a certain point when you separate so much from the source material, it becomes... something else entirely.

I'm not at all kidding when I say if the X-Men Fox movies were all that I was exposed to with the X-Men, I would have never have become a fan. They don't embody at all what made me a big fan of the franchise.

the fox movies are missing; found family themes, female empowerment, and a wide focus and variety of characters. thank god for CC

MCU is different from the comics, but they do a better job at keeping the same general characteristics of the characters. It's not perfect but it's there. Same can said for several cartoon adaptations like TAS or even Evolution.

This is not true of the Fox movies, the characters are almost unrecognizable to me.

See this is the exact opposite for me. I grew up with the TAS and I really enjoyed it, but I read the comics in the 80's and 90's sparsely at best. I didn't get into comics at all until after I saw X2. I loved (still do) that film so much that I needed more. I went to Barnes and Noble and grabbed a bunch of TPB not really knowing anything about the current era, I grabbed Ultimate X-Men vols 1-4 and I think it was Uncanny vol 1-3. Ultimate X-Men was like the movie, Uncanny was written by Austen and it was pretty awful tbh. I stuck with the ultimate line and eventually branched off into everything the ultimate universe had to offer.

I will admit that there was a big lack of development for most characters in the X-Men universe by Fox outside of Logan, Magneto, Professor X and Mystique. Everyone else was basically background characters, so someone expecting more I would agree that is a valid criticism. The story beats for the movies I listed were well plotted and choreographed, other movies not so much but almost all of them have some redeeming quality imo.

I do think the ensemble movies for Avengers gave better balance to the team as a whole, but they also had a huge advantage of most characters having a solo movie before the big team up or at the very least appearances prior to the first Avengers movie. Fox-Men were not afforded that luxury so I think that it's fair to take that into consideration when critiquing the films for character development.

Anyways, my long winded post is over as I've dragged this thread OT. Thanks for indulging me in some frank and fair discussion.

[Killerbee911]

This is something I will never understand. Movies=/=Comics. They can be completely separate entities and both be good in their own right. There are definitely valid criticisms to be made about the fox movies (and the mcu) but the one critique I can't get behind is "it's not the same as the comics."

X2 is a good film, DOFP is a great film, Logan should've won some Oscar's, none of these movies were really close to the source material at all but they all were critically and financially successful. Not picking on you specifically because there are a lot of people who agree with you but I just wanted to add my two cents.

It is funny that you mention X2 and DoFP because those are good "adaptions" of the stories they are telling, The reason those movie are good the maintain the spirit of the story even though things have to be different . Infinity wars and Endgame do that with Infinity Gauntlet story as well. Things don't have to be exactly the same but maintain the spirit of stories they are telling. Both X-3 and Dark Phoenix does not do that and they both got crushed by fans. Fans are understanding of changes when they help story or they make sense Stryker being a government scientist/leader and not religious Zealot worked, Wolverine being able to survive time travel worked, Making it Kitty whose powers explainable give time travel was nice nod to original story.

Making Mystique the leader of X-men and ordering Cyclops and company in the manner that Cyclops would order around the X-men was so fundamentally off base that as X-men fan you can but be upset over that, And that screws up Cyclops for most of the movie. We can live with Phoenix not being entity but repressed memories or emotions, We can live with random purple head woman being called Selene (when there was purple head psychic named Psylocke that could have been used.),etc Diverging source material isn't bad if the changes are better or have happen because time period or the world is different because of other movies. The changes to Dark Phoenix from the source didn't help put in the time period or make the story better. When Red Skull is used instead of Death it felt like made sense to do that.

[Zelena]

Agreed. I think Singer main problem was that he was not interested in developing the characters besides a couple of them and the movies suffered for it because people went to the cinema expecting to see a X-men movie or a good story and appart from some exceptions like DOFP and Logan, most of the time, they saw a sort of sci fi movie who happened to have some X-men on it with semi-realist costumes and characters whose names we barely knew. In a big way the actors carried the movies and the story but there was so much they could do on their own.

The good X-men movie isn’t a movie, it would be a TV show like the Gifted, the only way to do justice to all X-men characters.

[CosmiComic]

I think a show might do the comic storylines more justice. D+ seems to be adapting several comic storylines for the Avengers

[Lucyinthesky]

The good X-men movie isn’t a movie, it would be a TV show like the Gifted, the only way to do justice to all X-men characters.

Singer got two trilogies with enough time to develop more than a couple characters at a time and that´s my main problem with him as a director. Matthew Vaughn did a better job with an original story in just one movie and I wish Fox would have let him or some other director try their idea for the franchise instead of Singer.


Yes mabye a show like Heroes could be better for the franchise now that they are part of the MCU I think some solo and group movies and mini series would be the way to go to develop the characters. I heard they had plans to make the characters show in other movies, Rogue in Ms Marvel, Strom in Black Panther, Hank in SWORD or Shield, Charles with Dr Strange and Reed Richards with the Iluminati,etc until their apparition on a new movie as a team.

Some years ago I heard plans to develop a magneto mini series on Disney + and I think that would be a good idea, given his early story doesn´t have much to do with the X-men and they need to explain his presence in the modern world so a mini to explain his early story instead of taking space on an X-men movie to explain it would be the way to go. I am excited for their future given Kevin Feige already worked with them on Fox and knows exactly where they went wrong with the characters so hopefully he will avoid making the same mistakes.

[Uncanny X-Man]

This is something I will never understand. Movies=/=Comics. They can be completely separate entities and both be good in their own right. There are definitely valid criticisms to be made about the fox movies (and the mcu) but the one critique I can't get behind is "it's not the same as the comics."

X2 is a good film, DOFP is a great film, Logan should've won some Oscar's, none of these movies were really close to the source material at all but they all were critically and financially successful. Not picking on you specifically because there are a lot of people who agree with you but I just wanted to add my two cents.

I think there's an argument to be made on how sticking close to the source material helped cement the MCU's success though. And by "sticking close" I don't really mean adapting and being the same as the comics, because most Marvel movies take sometimes great liberties with the source material, but in most cases you can still draw a parallel and recognize the same character from the comics or a similar storyline.

There's a reason why the later seasons of Game of Thrones were received much differently from the earliest, when they stopped being based on the source material. And why the Fox X-Men Cinematic Universe and the DCEU are nowhere near as successful as the MCU. And there's certainly many, many things that factor into that but I really believe keeping closer to the comics helped Marvel achieve the success they did.