MCU X-Men to be called The Mutants? Gender neutral name

[CosmiComic]

Castle, why do you act like the MCU will ruin the X-Men?

And I don't understand your point about QS

[Brian B]

Castle, the MCU X-Men — or “Mutants” — are going to be so much better than the Fox X-Men. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise. Marvel under the MCU umbrella has never made anything as bad Fox’s X-Men, X2, Last Stand, Origins: Wolverine, etc. (The list only gets worse from there, really.)

[CosmiComic]

Castle, the MCU X-Men — or “Mutants” — are going to be so much better than the Fox X-Men. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise. Marvel under the MCU umbrella has never made anything as bad Fox’s X-Men, X2, Last Stand, Origins: Wolverine, etc. (The list only gets worse from there, really.)

Some MCU movies haven't been great, some have been ok, and some have been stellar. But none have reached Dark Phoenix

However, why do you X1 and 2 aren't good?

[Triniking1234]

I'd like to know exactly what I said was false.
Are you telling Hank McCoy isn't called Beast, that he doesn't occasionally run around on all fours, that he did not transform into a furry creature?
Are you telling me that I just imagined all these things?

I misread the other comment. They could just keep his name as Hank.

[Brian B]

Some MCU movies haven't been great, some have been ok, and some have been stellar. But none have reached Dark Phoenix

However, why do you X1 and 2 aren't good?

X1 and X2 are saved by their breakneck speed. They are so action filled, you never have time to digest how big the plot holes are, or how stupid and bad the movies are. I also give X1 props for having that dark, mysterioso vibe the best X-Men comics have.

[CosmiComic]

X1 and X2 are saved by their breakneck speed. They are so action filled, you never have time to digest how big the plot holes are, or how stupid and bad the movies are. I also give X1 props for having that dark, mysterioso vibe the best X-Men comics have.

Ok. I think the plots work just find, but you can remind me of any plot holes and I might think differently. I actually didn't think X1 had that much action, to be honest.

[Brian B]

Ok. I think the plots work just find, but you can remind me of any plot holes and I might think differently. I actually didn't think X1 had that much action, to be honest.

How does Senator Kelly become a mutant? I thought mutants were born. Also, what happens to him? Is he just water? Why didn’t Magneto just kill him instead? That’s just one example.

[Castle]

Castle, the MCU X-Men — or “Mutants” — are going to be so much better than the Fox X-Men. It’s ridiculous to think otherwise. Marvel under the MCU umbrella has never made anything as bad Fox’s X-Men, X2, Last Stand, Origins: Wolverine, etc. (The list only gets worse from there, really.)

I am guessing this is just another this vs that with paint by numbers stuff not the film making, quality or story telling reality of movies.

I will list some logical reality of what and where we are and what is to come while been respectful

Has there been any mcu movie that started like xmen 1 that changed how people see comic films than just some toy advertisement and for fun? considering 90% of mcu movies are light hearted action disney-comedy, it is unfair they are compared to the first xmen films that had taken comic films beyond the basic stuff. The question now is who sees that as awful?

MCU did try some xmen 1/xmen 2 with black panther by trying to say they are the next xavier and magneto and will address some of their themes but that was hype. black panther did not give any of the compelling story telling to achieve that and black panther is seen as the best MCU film.

Also are you aware X2, Nightcrawler's storming n the whitehouse was a land mark comic book vfx film making moment that MCU has never achieved because they are greatly hindered by a one way use of basic standard production technicality, which in recent years has gotten very cartoony, that even some MCU fans have raised this as an issue. see Tony's floating head in endgame.

I think it will be sad to watch an XMEN movie in the 2020s and the VFX in X2 still looks more stylistic than the later and I say this honestly.

Are you also aware X2 final act has no big cgi set pieces that in 2021 no one brings up anyone because big cgi fights is now seen as the most generic and worst aspect of superhero films to the point many have said it has ruined the genre completely?

Are you aware the story telling of xmen 1 was so beyond the norm to the point of the basic comic book movie xavier and magneto never came to physical blows? the first comic film ever and maybe even till now, that had the two main characters fight their battles more with philosophy, politics, and the metaphors of chess?


This was already before the queen's gambit. one of the best shows in recent years and very sophisticated,



Has MCU ever achieved that kind of sophisticated story telling among the main hero or villain or have they always traded blows? because you know that is what we all expect out of comic books. Xmen 1 destroyed that narrative forever and that is still very acclaimed in 2021.

What you can take away from X2 is short. MCU cant make any film objectivity artistically as acclaimed as X2, if we rank comic book film making from 2000-2010. X2 may rank only lower than the dark knight. the content of X2 and visual style of X2 is too far beyond the mass manufactured formula of marvel.

Finally but most importantly Are you also aware X2 is some of the god loves, man kills comics and marvel has said they had no intention of making the heavier darker comic books? meaning X2 is off limits to them. so how can that even be bad when disney has yet to try it? however a modern version of X2 will even be rated R and be more like Logan and may even take some of the best part of the comics to life.

I dont mind having discussion about movies but I do like some depth in the conversation and pure film making arguments when this debates are discussed with someone mentioning my name. I am not into some superficial arguments of movies, where no one is saying anything we can use in film school, say to directors to learn from and bring to the screen writing room.

[Castle]

Ok. I think the plots work just find, but you can remind me of any plot holes and I might think differently. I actually didn't think X1 had that much action, to be honest.

And that was the promise of those films that worked, also why X3 was not that great. X-Men 1 and 2 were not about the action, they were more drama , driven by the already metaphors discuss of racism and prejudice and politics. the story was already extremely heavy for a comic book movie so there was no need for much action. which is a good film making decision by any director.

If MCU even manages to achieve this by one quarter of that, it will be an accomplishment and a possibly good xmen film but after 30 movies or something, that looks quite impossible.

You have to remember the problem with mcu spidernan is that it doesn't have the important ingredients of what makes a good spiderman story, the same here will apply for a good xmen story,

Also fox movies was proof, their only good films were the ones with little action.

The problem here is you may be looking at X-Men too much from an MCU pov. that does not work much, Look at it more from an X-Universe POV. the mythology does not lie.

[CosmiComic]

How does Senator Kelly become a mutant? I thought mutants were born. Also, what happens to him? Is he just water? Why didn’t Magneto just kill him instead? That’s just one example.

You're right, I didn't think of that! He had no X-Gene

[Brian B]

Castle, I hate the cartoony, overreliance on CGI on which a lot of these superhero flicks seem to depend. But there’s NOTHING about the X-Men movies that aren’t just big, dumb, superhero movies.

Black Panther was so much better, and truer to the source material, than any of the X-Men movies. It also resonated hugely with not just the comic audience, but a black American audience. That movie was black Star Wars. Fox hasn’t come close to making anything that good or culturally impactful with its former X-Men franchise.

Also, about X2 being an adaptation of “God Loves, Man Kills,” it sucked as an adaptation. On its own, ignoring the bits Fox took from that graphic novel, it works as a big, stupid, effects driven movie where they move so fast you don’t think about how bad it really is.

You’re a Fox X fan, I get it. But those movies are over. MCU’s “Mutants” are the future, and based on the MCU, that future looks very bright.

[CosmiComic]

Castle, the MCU has made movies better than the best X-Men movies. Yes, not all of them had philosophy, but some did. Black Panther, for instance, had more real talk about racism than any X-Men movie. We've argued that point elsewhere and it seems we do so again here. Even IW and EG had philosophical moments, and Thanos was as entertaining and grand a villain as Magneto.

Furthermore, not having philosophy doesn't make the movie bad. Ragnarok was an action-comedy but was very good.

Also, the MCU actually uses its cast for the most part, Not always, not perfectly, but better than the X-Men films did. Every actor was cast for the right part. Just the emotions in WandaVision or Endgame alone outpace those in any X-Men movie outside of Logan. And while the track record on ethnic and gender diversity isn't too great, it's better than the X-Men movies, and getting better all the time. Seriously, Carol Danvers did more in one movie than Storm and Jean did in all of them.

Finally, the MCU actually uses colorful distinct costumes.

The MCU is far from perfect and needs plenty of work, but it's still better in many ways than the XCU. Why do you have a problem with that?

[Triniking1234]

How does Senator Kelly become a mutant? I thought mutants were born. Also, what happens to him? Is he just water? Why didn’t Magneto just kill him instead? That’s just one example.

Magneto exposed him to the prototype of the mutant machine and he just fell apart and died because he couldn't control his new water power.
After Magneto used the machine of him, he whispered "You're one of us now" and left him in the chair but when he got his water powers and escaped he was like "Damn, I wasn't expecting that." and just didn't bother looking for him.
The point of the battle at the Statue of Liberty was to stop him from using the machine (which was fueled by his magnetic powers but would kill him since he's old so he needed to transfer them to Rogue) because Xavier and Jean figured out that the fake mutants created from the machine would die.

[Castle]

Castle, I hate the cartoony, overreliance on CGI on which a lot of these superhero flicks seem to depend. But there’s NOTHING about the X-Men movies that aren’t just big, dumb, superhero movies.
.

xmen 1 and 2 were never considered dumb CGI comic book movies, everything I said before has proven it, you can ignore it, but film history wont when they discuss comic book movies. read the reviews of X1 after 20 years and ask how dumb did critics think they are or even fans? 20 years is a long time for things to change.
critics even like it more, you can also thank the political climate we have now , the themes of xmen 1 touched upon in a major way, not a derivate way

also if they were dumb why would MCU try to copy it when they were selling their most intellectual comic book movie to date?

There is so much contradiction to what you are saying

Black Panther was so much better, and truer to the source material, than any of the X-Men movies. It also resonated hugely with not just the comic audience, but a black American audience. That movie was black Star Wars. Fox hasn’t come close to making anything that good or culturally impactful with its former X-Men franchise.

Black panther was not page by page true to the source material neither was xmen, however black panther had the same issues as many marvel films. it felt derivate, which is in line with mcu story telling because mcu has said they make light movies. xmen most of the time is heavier for good reasons, X2 was a fair example of this. it is heaveier in content than black panther. X2 nearly ended with a holacust of all humans and mutants all because two sides had racist views of the other side. black panther ended with a big cgi fight of what should not be there. how is that better?

also no offence, marvel gave black panther the weakest cgi even for their standard. I don't see how a movie which cgi was maybe even worse than xmen origins can topple X2, A movie that used a VFX, marvel has yet to use. makes no sense.

Also, about X2 being an adaptation of “God Loves, Man Kills,” it sucked as an adaptation. On its own, ignoring the bits Fox took from that graphic novel, it works as a big, stupid, effects driven movie where they move so fast you don’t think about how bad it really is.

I never said fox covered the book page by page. also this is a deflect that marvel can even try to do god loves, man kills, The final act of X2 was a slow burn to drama because no cgi big battle distract. X2 hard had no big ongoing cgi dumb fight.

You’re a Fox X fan, I get it. But those movies are over. MCU’s “Mutants” are the future, and based on the MCU, that future looks very bright.

I am a fan of comic movies that are beyond what we expect from the most shallow definitions of superhero movies, I favour more thought provoking movies that shows the two main characters dont even need a fight scene and you can make a comic film about real social issues as your primary plot and treat most of them with realistic outcomes. MCU has yet to make one in-universe. maybe they can try with xmen but I dont have much hope.

[Castle]

Magneto exposed him to the prototype of the mutant machine and he just fell apart and died because he couldn't control his new water power.
After Magneto used the machine of him, he whispered "You're one of us now" and left him in the chair but when he got his water powers and escaped he was like "Damn, I wasn't expecting that." and just didn't bother looking for him.
The point of the battle at the Statue of Liberty was to stop him from using the machine (which was fueled by his magnetic powers but would kill him since he's old so he needed to transfer them to Rogue) because Xavier and Jean figured out that the fake mutants created from the machine would die.

I think the bigger theme of kelly that never gets mentioned.when he became a fake mutant

Kelly confessed his sins before he died and sort of asked for forgiveness of his mutant racist hate, hardly do we see this from comic book villains? kelly reminds me of George Wallace, the senator from alabama that stood in the front school doors to make sure black kids don't enter in the 60s. i think this is where mystique got that from, he also tells jean that mutants kids had no right to go to public schools at the senate hearing and this is the first arc of the film alone.

again another fantastic social commentary we see tackled deeply, we dont see that in black panther. sorry but this is just the case because black panther was too busy telling us the plot from Thor 1.

his death is still one of the most shocking deaths in comic films. even now I don't see disney filming it like that. it was gross to look at and freakish but ....that was the tone back then when you make your film that grounded