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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    X-Force
    X-Factor
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    you have a good point

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Black Panther addressed the themes of European colonialism, the African Diaspora, US involvement in overthrowing foreign governments, female empowerment, the role of extremism in social change, and human trafficking. These are all real world issues that are handled in a complex manner that does not give easy answers.

    BUT the main character did not turn to camera and say "I was discriminated against by racists, AND THAT'S BAD!"

    So none of that counts according to Castle.
    Apparently we need PSAs from the 80s and 90s, because those were such good times for superhero movies!

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I keep seeing talk in this thread and others about the Xmen metaphor.

    Why do we need a metaphor any more? Maybe ion the 60s when you could not just do a comic about racism or gay rights and had to use metaphors. But now and the last few years not only can you do a story about racism, gay/trans rights with actual POC, gay and Trans heroes and characters but many people would love to see such a story. So why do we in 2021 need mostly white straight Xmen to create that metaphor?
    That's what I'm trying to say. Do we need Cyclops to speak for Falcon?

  3. #78
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Is this even really a thing? All I saw was someone said they had a scoop that there will be a film called The Mutants. That could be a non Xmen film about Mutants. Or that could be a working title. I highly doubt they get rid of Xmen name. It has too much name recognition.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 03-05-2021 at 02:29 PM.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Is this even really a thing? All I saw was someone said they had a scoop that there will be a film called The Mutanta. That could be a non Xmen film about Mutants. Or that could be a working title. I highly doubt they get rid of Xmen name. It has too much name recognition.
    But the title might not be "X-Men" if they're using a different group like "X-Force"

    Of course, that doesn't mean this specific announcement is correct

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member babyblob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    That's what I'm trying to say. Do we need Cyclops to speak for Falcon?
    I very much agree. That is why I asked the question. You got me thinking on it. I mean I was not overly fond of Iceman being made gay, but he is, it happened not going to bitch about the change. As a gay man it would be interesting to see a story where Bobby is attacked for being gay rather then having Ice powers and using the Ice Powers as a metaphor for him being gay.

    Or have a group treat Storm like shit because she is black not because she can make it rain and use the weather powers as a stand in for being black.
    Favorite teams. Alpha Flight, Avengers, Fantastic Four, West Coast Avengers, Justice Society of America, Legion of Superheroes.

  6. #81
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Rincewind;5413643]Black Panther addressed the themes of European colonialism, the African Diaspora, US involvement in overthrowing foreign governments, female empowerment, the role of extremism in social change, and human trafficking. These are all real world issues that are handled in a complex manner that does not give easy answers.

    /QUOTE]

    some vague drawbacks, none of this have any major story plot that devlops into anything.also many of this stuff are add ons.
    BUT the main character did not turn to camera and say "I was discriminated against by racists, AND THAT'S BAD!"
    that is not fair, you cannot mark down a character that goes beyond vague, my stand is that xmen has already tackled so many real world themes in a deeper way that any other marvel series ever could, a forced change to modern times is not necessary.


    So none of that counts according to Castle.
    it counts better , if it is not generic story telling.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Blue people aren't real, and that oppression isn't comparable to what black people face everyday.

    I said if she real. also I was the person trying to keep it fictional, you added 100% realism .

    You're missing the point about Black Panther. They're wealthy because of vibranium they didn't share with the rest of the world but that also caused problems for them and for everyone else.
    This is not a big prejudice topic.I can also add Genosha, astriod m, the savage land and the recent krakoa were all rich.... awesome places for mutants. to flee problems from the headaches the world gives them and not to share some island or country with the rest of the world.

    Oh and even in this places, the prejudice things still comes up. In Genosha, 16 million mutants were targeted and killed by another self hating mutant called cassandra nova, it was a mutant holocaust performed by the sentinels , once built by a person called Bolivar Trask, a mutant racist hater.
    This is why the metaphor doesn't work for some. Because comments like this latch onto pretend racism, while complaining about real racism being confronted in movies.
    even if I go just for POC. Storm from xmen has had it worse than black panther and you know who will take the cake? Bishop and he is black.
    Last edited by Castle; 03-05-2021 at 02:49 PM.

  7. #82
    Mighty Member Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I very much agree. That is why I asked the question. You got me thinking on it. I mean I was not overly fond of Iceman being made gay, but he is, it happened not going to bitch about the change. As a gay man it would be interesting to see a story where Bobby is attacked for being gay rather then having Ice powers and using the Ice Powers as a metaphor for him being gay.

    Or have a group treat Storm like shit because she is black not because she can make it rain and use the weather powers as a stand in for being black.
    Except Cyclops never spoke for Falcon. Also Has Falcon ever experienced any form of racism or prejudice in movies? In xmen origins, considered the worst xmen films. there is a cyclops cameo. he is in an experimentation camp, waiting to be experimented on and then excuted because he was a mutant.

    Also there are many black mutants. that is the way to do it. you dont need cylops to speak for falcon. You need Bishop becoming a leading character in an already well created universe were these themes have already been deeply addressed much better than another universe like black panther.

    Bobby been gay was just not necessary.

  8. #83
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    Castle, do you understand the fake racism in X-Men isn't real racism?

    I'm saying a character like Falcon doesn't need one like Cyclops to speak for him. Why are you being so defensive?

  9. #84
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by babyblob View Post
    I keep seeing talk in this thread and others about the Xmen metaphor.

    Why do we need a metaphor any more? Maybe ion the 60s when you could not just do a comic about racism or gay rights and had to use metaphors. But now and the last few years not only can you do a story about racism, gay/trans rights with actual POC, gay and Trans heroes and characters but many people would love to see such a story. So why do we in 2021 need mostly white straight Xmen to create that metaphor?
    If they go with the OG team, Bobby is gay and Xavier does not have the use of his legs.

    That immediately is a significant improvement over most super stuff.

    Just find people like KiKi Layne as Storm (who reportedly wants to be the next Storm), Ellen Wong as Jubilee, bring back Amber Midthunder from Legion to play Mirage (they recast Blade from the Luke Cage show, so big deal IMHO), or add in one of the many other creations that fit those needs, and blamo, the X-gene people are ready for 2021.

    I always thought RJ Cyler would be an excellent Beast.
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 03-05-2021 at 03:06 PM.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke View Post
    House of X

    For all your X needs
    Yeah, Rise of X, Powers of X, House of X, Days of X, Twilight of X, Fall of X, Crisis on Infinite X (okay, probably not that one...), there's plenty of potential without necessarily using 'Men' in the title.

  11. #86
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Yeah, Rise of X, Powers of X, House of X, Days of X, Twilight of X, Fall of X, Crisis on Infinite X (okay, probably not that one...), there's plenty of potential without necessarily using 'Men' in the title.
    X-Actly

    Marvel has a ton of IP already for X-Men related stuff.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castle View Post
    some vague drawbacks, none of this have any major story plot that devlops into anything.also many of this stuff are add ons.


    that is not fair, you cannot mark down a character that goes beyond vague, my stand is that xmen has already tackled so many real world themes in a deeper way that any other marvel series ever could, a forced change to modern times is not necessary.


    it counts better , if it is not generic story telling.
    It is completely and totally fair. What is unfair is to dismiss these themes because you find them "vague" or "generic". Your entire argument is based on personal biases and reactions, not on actual content of the movie.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeastieRunner View Post
    If they go with the OG team, Bobby is gay and Xavier does not have the use of his legs.

    That immediately is a significant improvement over most super stuff.

    Just find people like KiKi Layne as Storm (who reportedly wants to be the next Storm), Ellen Wong as Jubilee, bring back Amber Midthunder from Legion to play Mirage (they recast Blade from the Luke Cage show, so big deal IMHO), or add in one of the many other creations that fit those needs, and blamo, the X-gene people are ready for 2021.
    I don't think the OG team is better than most for superhero diversity. It's one of the whitest groups of X-Men ever.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Is this even really a thing? All I saw was someone said they had a scoop that there will be a film called The Mutants. That could be a non Xmen film about Mutants. Or that could be a working title. I highly doubt they get rid of Xmen name. It has too much name recognition.
    Is it even confirmed anywhere yet?

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    Is it even confirmed anywhere yet?
    Im not sure

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