MCU X-Men to be called The Mutants? Gender neutral name

[Arsenal]

I don’t think “the mutants” works well as a movie title but I think it would be a fine one for a D+ series that introduces the idea of mutants (and the worlds reaction to it) in the MCU.

[Castle]

Pretty simple.

This scene going into the details of how whites wound up in possession of the items in the museum and if it was a fair deal when they did?


Easily a better summation of oppression than everything in all of the Fox "X..." films added up and multiplied by ten.

Are you sure? this is one scene, where is the plot point that increases the scene of oppression?

Here is much better scene from the end of first class, that has built from the first scene of the movie.



Why does this scene in first class work better? because magneto starts the movie as kid been oppressed in nazi camps, he spends most of the movie questioning the prejudice that is still there, he has already tried to find the nazis and gotten involved helping out the cold war and even till now, people still want him dead. that is why he said I have been at the mercy of men following others, never again,

So the story here of oppression is built from the scene magneto sees his mum die in nazi camps to the end, where he is nearly killed again by people who are targeting others based on their differences,


In Black panther, that one scene is one and done and plays no major part to the plot because black panther like most mcu movies has to still keep it comic bookie. When Killmonger goes to Wakanda the plot becomes Thor 1.

LOL. It's ironic you bring this, you do know that killmonger was trying to channel Magneto right?
https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/21/1...n-magneto-xmen

[numberthirty]

Are you sure? this is one scene, where is the plot point that increases the scene of oppression?

...

Absolutely certain.

There is no need to "Increase..." hundreds of years of theft and oppression.

[PCN24454]

I don’t think “the mutants” works well as a movie title but I think it would be a fine one for a D+ series that introduces the idea of mutants (and the worlds reaction to it) in the MCU.

That's actually a good point. "The Mutants" doesn't necessarily refer to the X-Men. It could mean a different look at a lot of the characters.

[Castle]

let me just even throw another thickness in the writing here. Here is a scene where we see Magneto and Xavier talking about oppression in a very compelling manner. I would love to see a scene with killmonger and black panther having this kind of talk to each other and no the end does not count because that is another one done reference that has nothing to do with the overall part of the film. Don't talk about been buried with slaves alone, when that is hardly even in the film or ever brought up in the film minus other vague refernces, show me a big scene with the slaves, the way we have already seen a big scene with jews in nazi camps that starts a personal story for magneto to hunt down nazis..


In first class this is still the second act of the movie. and maybe the best part where Magneto delivers now what is scene as an iconic line....Peace is not an option.




what makes they scene good? the themes of oppression, racism and what was to come is argued by both sides in a very compelling way, you see both their point of views. Both Magneto and Xavier are right to some good extent. This is not killmonger constantly acting one dimensional about something and who is not even involved for most of the story.

In a good xmen movie or story, the politics drives every narrative of everything they say and do. it is not derivate, neither does it fall back to comic bookie stuff, this is why X2, DOFP and even first class dont need big cgi fight scenes like black panther even did,

In DOFP, this step is taking further, Magneto by the end of the film tries to assassinate Richard Nixon at a political rally with the entire world watching because USA Government has started a political program to kill mutants based on their differences from humans You wont find that type of stuff in black panther.

those two scenes I have given, all builds all to one major plot line that deals deeply with the themes of prejudice and racism. Black panther story telling is not like this. it feels very generic If black panther was an xmen movie, no one who has gotten into xmen even in a light way, will take it that seriously as a top tie xmen live action and fans will say the movie could have done more to address the themes in a more compelling way.

It's funny how people are saying black panther deals with oppression deeply but they cannot point me one scene where people are actually been oppressed that even becomes a big plot point. Not even a throw away scene like Mystique from X1 confronting kelly about not been able to go to school as a kid because of his prejudice against mutants.

Honestly, if some just think all what MCU XMEN has to be is black panther, I may just retire now.

[numberthirty]

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It's funny how people are saying black panther deals with oppression deeply but they cannot show me one scene where people are actually been oppressed that even becomes a big plot point. Not even a throw away scene like Mystique from X1 confronting kelly about not been able to go to school as a kid because of his prejudice against mutants.

Put simply...

Those scenes are there.

If someone wants to ignore that fact?

Their call. Won't change the reality of things, but their call.

Past that?

You don't really need a scene in a film when most of us grasp that we are living in a world where the police murder black Americans without consequence on an all too regular basis.

Past that?

Raven not getting to to school somehow being harsher than a man looking at relics that were stolen from his people while discussing it with a woman who wound up with the relics because of those thieves?

That is laughable.

[numberthirty]

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In DOFP, this step is taking further, Magneto by the end of the film tries to assassinate Richard Nixon at a political rally with the entire world watching because USA Government has started a political program to kill mutants based on their differences from humans[/B] You wont find that type of stuff in black panther.

...

To point out just one scene that was clearly ignored, and then leave it at that...

The man was going to arm black communities all over the Earth with the technology to fight the people who still oppress and murder them.

Not just kill an elected leader who has multiple replacements waiting in a line of succession.

[Castle]

Put simply...

Those scenes are there.

If someone wants to ignore that fact?

Their call. Won't change the reality of things, but their call.

Past that?

So please show me the scenes if they are there? Post a link video. Here is a scene in xmen 1, Jean goes to congress to ask for more civil basic rights for mutants, she is short down by congress, who tell her mutants should not have rights.

Again this is just the 3rd scene of xmen 1. Still in a first act scene of the movie and the movie has already even nailed oppression after the ground-breaking first scene of magneto in nazi camps.


There are about 6 scenes from the first act of xmen 1 that covers oppression and prejudice as a direct topic. This movie does circles over black panther handling political and social commentary and this is not even a top 3 xmen story on the issues.

You don't really need a scene in a film when most of us grasp that we are living in a world where the police murder black Americans without consequence on an all too regular basis.

At this point, I think the captain america movies even had better social commentary than black panther even if that too was hindered by some comic bookie standard stuff.
I think we need to see those scenes, that is what separates average stories from great stories Those scenes are what brings the depth and expose a bigger social commentary. D. Any screenwriter will tell us so


Watch Blakklansman, the best scene of the film was the scene where Ron (Isiah Washington's character) a black man, pretends he is white to get more information from david duke about his KKK rally and david duke is saying racist things on the phone against black people not knowing he is talking to a black man, was not only hilarious because Ron was trying not to laugh over the phone but it worked so well in the story because you see how deep the prejudice is in a different lenses.

that scene was the exact same scene in xmen 1, where mystique pretends or disguises as a Kelly's assistant and he is talking down on mutants saying he plans to lock them up all and get rid of all of them, not knowing he was actually talking a mutant, while Mystique just smiles at him.

when you have a comic story that even rivals some of the best screenwriters films like Spike Lee who always does a great job tackling racism and oppression in movies You know how deep a superhero movie can go when you see similar styles in what is known as an average xmen movie. I don't see black panther as an xmen story at all. MCU will need to do 100x better for that to be an xmen story.

[numberthirty]

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Here is a scene in xmen 1, Jean goes to congress to ask for more civil basic rights for mutants, she is short down by congress, who tell her mutants should not have rights.

...

Unless she is staring at walls adorned with stolen pieces of hundreds of years of mutant history?

I'm just going to have to roll my eyes at the "Basic..." civil rights that Jean does not believe that she has.

For starters.

Not much of a point in going into it, but for starters.

[Username taken]

Pretty simple.

This scene going into the details of how whites wound up in possession of the items in the museum and if it was a fair deal when they did?



Easily a better summation of oppression than everything in all of the Fox "X..." films added up and multiplied by ten.

Quoted for truth.

This was just an explicit example of some of the stuff I mentioned earlier. And it's a very real problem that several countries are struggling with because a lot of their historical pieces are in European museums.

People really need to pay attention to what they are watching. Or better still, go out and actually watch what they are critiquing.

[Castle]

Unless she is staring at walls adorned with stolen pieces of hundreds of years of mutant history?

I'm just going to have to roll my eyes at the "Basic..." civil rights that Jean does not believe that she has.

For starters.
.

The goal post is shifting.

Mutants have been around for a long time in the marvel universe that black panther is also in. not just history but the next stage of evolution as the opening scene said, also this is when she asked mutants don't need to expose themselves and others that have done so have been meet with fear and hate, which was also an allegory from gay people choosing not to reveal their sexuality.


Jean is a mutant. Kelly wants to lock her up and get rid of her. yeah that is your right been taking away. Jean as a mutant won't have rights under kelly's mutant ban act

Not much of a point in going into it, but for starters.

there is so much point, when magneto confronts kelly and tells him , first as a jew, he know men like kelly and what kelly is really afraid off were people who were different from him. which is actually the basic problem of racism and prejudice , because it is always about fear. Magneto nails it perfectly in this scene




The start here is that I am only talking about one average xmen story found in a film.

[Castle]

it's just kind of strange people are using black panther, a movie that was supposed to be already influenced by xmen but unlike xmen, it lack the needed depth or heavier heavier political drama that xmen so depends on. you are not supposed to even know you are watching a comic book movie. If black panther was an xmen plot. it will be weaker than xmen 1 as I am proving here.

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a8...dwick-boseman/
Black Panther's Michael B Jordan teases 'X-Men plot' with Chadwick Boseman


Sorry Michael B Jordan, I loved you on Friday Night Lights and in Creed but black panther was more like Lion King and Thor 1 because that is the standard mcu forumla. its not an xmen plot.

But How can people want xmen to try and be like black panther and black panther was already trying to be like xmen and did not do the best job. MCU should just stick to xmen stories like the mutant massacre or God Loves, Man Kills and all will be fine.

[Midvillian1322]

Quoted for truth.

This was just an explicit example of some of the stuff I mentioned earlier. And it's a very real problem that several countries are struggling with because a lot of their historical pieces are in European museums.

People really need to pay attention to what they are watching. Or better still, go out and actually watch what they are critiquing.

Yup on top of stuff like this. It's much harder to work symbolism into the characters as a whole then to write a scene where Bobby's parents ask him if he's ever tried not being gay... I mean a mutant. Instead of just having characters talk about it Coogler had the character stand for something. He was able able bake into the make up of the characters a a powerful message about African American lack of Idenity and Cultural heritage. (Also I know Coogler had a writing partner but names escaping me. So shout out to that guy lol)

[Castle]

Yup on top of stuff like this. It's much harder to work symbolism into the characters as a whole then to write a scene where Bobby's parents ask him if he's ever tried not being gay... I mean a mutant. Instead of just having characters talk about it Coogler had the character stand for something. He was able able bake into the make up of the characters a a powerful message about African American lack of Idenity and Cultural heritage. (Also I know Coogler had a writing partner but names escaping me. So shout out to that guy lol)

I disagree with symbolism .you know the truth is symbolism alone don't win you awards for great writing. Spike Lee or Quentin Tarantino are not known for symbols in their fscreen-wriritings. they go for the main punch like the bobby scene By the end of Blackklannsman that was not even a film anymore it was real documentary on racism/anti-Semitism. Symbolisms shines much better in art drawings not in film writing.




the problems with symbolism is that symbolism can be easily looked over or ignored in film. I will say this are some of the strengths Nolan's batman had over Burton's Batman. Burton used more symbolisms to tackle some of the casual themes found in batman, Nolan went for the flat out story telling of the issues. he did not use symbolism, he made the problem clear for the audiences to be self aware.


a character like Magneto actually not just talked been a mutant but been a jew first, who lived through the horrors of war, what makes that more powerful in xmen is that, magneto as a jew has seen the brutality's of oppression and now he is using that experiences as a mutant to avoid of all that again. you dont even seen that much parallels with BP fiction side and real side.

I guess a symbolism for magneto by black panther POV would be for him to keep wearing a special star of david sign from the late BC or AD era. but why do that when you can just show real anti-Semitism to the core better than a symbol? that is better, it gives it depth. laslty remember that heritage scene, ends with that scene, it does not develop into a plot point and this is the problem with black panther from an X-MEN POV. it waters down all the social commentary for the more comic bookie stuff.

Bobby like some gay kids was actually a plot line that developed into something for the rest of the film, the parents kick him out , like many gays kids, Bobby finds a new and possibly better home. the bobby scene actually says a lot because by the last part of X2. Bobby is among the mutants that was nearly killed by a mutant racist for just been gay/mutant. which is what is happening to many gay people who come out, especially in many countries were been gay is illegal. they are killed or jailed. there is nothing said again about heritage or identity in black panther after that scene. there is more to say with the bobby scene.

I think black panther is a good example of an abstract essay, X-men and maybe the Nolan Batman movies are a good example of the actual dissertation
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[Killerbee911]

I don't know why people arguing with a brick wall, I mean I did it in the past but it is one person who is free to their opinion. We know the quality of Black Panther and couple of people whose opinion who might different does not change that. It is quite a stupid argument X-men is design to be about social commentary it was redesign by claremont from the ground up to be that way, Black Panther was a movie about conflict over a throne that had social commentary in things where it made sense. It is derp derp argument to X-men is deeper and better at Black panther a movie that wasn't designed to be about topic. It is like me going 2012 is a better disaster movie than X-men apocalypse. X-men apoccy wasn't design be a disaster movie it just a had a disaster in it.

Black Panther despite not being out about social commentary and spirituality perform like a champ in those areas. And it would be interesting to see Ryan Coolger on a X-men movie. Anyways colonizers be trippin