MCU X-Men to be called The Mutants? Gender neutral name

[CosmiComic]

it's funny since I already explained the quicksilver issue or let me say problem, which is the word I used on this thread and how Kevin Fiege is more of an oppositionist not an artistic great producer.

How so?

This is the second letdown they have had to deal with in 2 weeks from any X-MEN/MCU related story. the first one was the unlikely no more r rated xmen films, now this about the QS issue. this people see all the signs that most of this stuff won't go through, but they still get all hyped up.

Are you sure the first one was a letdown?

MCU can announce tomorrow that mutants are some failed tony stark or bruce banner lab experiment and many mcu fans will quickly say, this is great and it will be a fitting plan to finally bring xmen in the mcu, while the xmen fans will have a different viewpoint about that for very obvious reasons.

I doubt that very much.

[Castle]

Wow, I'm surprised at all the overreaction to a rumor. "Oh my God! Wokeness is killing us". But X-Men is still the most progressive Marvel comic, right? I guess the metaphor doesn't work.

Seriously, though, I hope they don't retread old ground with the O5 or whatever. They should bring us to new corners of the X-Men universe.

We're also going to herd cis-gendered people into re-education camps where they will be "cancelled".

Well, we are about to launch into Super-Woke territory now. Why not go for "All New, All Different: X-People!"

How Delightful.

Personally I hate all this terms I hear in the media, wokeness, cancel culture. it all riddled with hypocrisy , lies and falsehoods and inconsistencies. I always found it strange how the people that are screaming cancel culture are the same people that tried to cancel 81 million votes on january 6 because they did not like the outcome of an election.

the woke people usually sometimes only end up throwing bones to people of color characters they claim to be championing in the first place, look at how the star wars folks treated Rose Tico and Finn.But the thing is X-Men is already perfect as it is. there is nothing to really change. not the mutants or x-people or cyclops needs to be black when you can just add Bishop or Forge.


X-Men also already had a fantastic social commentary because they had great stories about it , even if most of the characters were white the allegory for racism and prejudice was just so well written in books like Days of future past or god loves, man kills. anyone could feel or get the message.I will be presuming that marvel studios have no big plan of tackling a lot of their metaphors so they will compensate with things like x-people or the mutants or race changing many important xmen characters like Cyclops.

This is how to write a metaphor for telling your parents about your sexuality.



Now actually making Bobby gay in the comics is WOKE and a bad one. really bad one, because Bobby chased after Polaris for years

[CosmiComic]

Personally I hate all this terms I hear in the media, wokeness, cancel culture. it all riddled with hypocrisy , lies and falsehoods and inconsistencies. I always found it strange how the people that are screaming cancel culture are the same people that tried to cancel 81 million votes on january 6 because they did not like the outcome of an election.

the woke people usually sometimes only end up throwing bones to people of color characters they claim to be championing in the first place, look at how the star wars folks treated Rose Tico and Finn.

The people who bashed Rose Tico and Finn are the same anti-woke people who hated them being introduced in the first place. And what exactly is your point about the election?

But the thing is X-Men is already perfect as it is. there is nothing to really change. not the mutants or x-people or cyclops needs to be black when you can just add Bishop or Forge.


X-Men also already had a fantastic social commentary because they had great stories about it , even if most of the characters were white the allegory for racism and prejudice was just so well written in books like Days of future past or god loves, man kills. anyone could feel or get the message.

I will be presuming that marvel studios have no big plan of tackling a lot of their metaphors so they will compensate with things like x-people or the new mutants or race changing many important xmen characters like Cyclops.


This is how to write a metaphor for telling your parents about your sexuality.




Now actually making Bobby gay in the comics is WOKE and a bad one. really bad one, because Bobby chased after Polaris for years

I disagree. X-Men isn't perfect as is. The metaphor doesn't really work anymore. You seem to want metaphorical representation, instead of actual representation. Marginalized people can speak for themselves. That's what Black Panther did, and that seems to be the direction the MCU is heading. That's real social commentary.

[Rincewind]

Sure, however you have to understand that we, us, I , you, they, mos-times are coming from different places. I come from the place of the source material the most, usually the biggest use of We for fans because we are fans of the books and the books does officially lean to the X-Universe.different or new suggestions are welcomed but you also have to take into account, those new ones are more from the MCU fans who just says.....Yes or great to anything Marvel studio announces. We have already been through this with r rated marvel movies. it is xmen fans and blade fans that supported more r rated films.


MCU can announce tomorrow that mutants are some failed tony stark or bruce banner lab experiment and many mcu fans will quickly say, this is great and it will be a fitting plan to finally bring xmen in the mcu, while the xmen fans will have a different viewpoint about that for very obvious reasons.

Your entire point seems to boil down to gatekeeping. One set of fan views is not more valid than another. X-Men fans can be fans of the Fox movies, fans of the animated series, fans of the Morrison run, fans of the Whedon run, fans that came in during the Age of Apocalypse, fans of the 17 year Claremont run. There are even fans of the original team of 5 who think of Storm and Logan as the new kids. There is not a single unified view for any of these factions, let alone for the fandom as a whole., Speaking as someone who was reading X-Men and Tomb of Dracula long before they were movies, your opinions are yours alone. You can get upset about the lack of R rated movies or whatever the latest rumors on the MCU are, but you do not speak for all fans or even a majority of fans no matter how you define it.

[CosmiComic]

Your entire point seems to boil down to gatekeeping. One set of fan views is not more valid than another. X-Men fans can be fans of the Fox movies, fans of the animated series, fans of the Morrison run, fans of the Whedon run, fans that came in during the Age of Apocalypse, fans of the 17 year Claremont run. There are even fans of the original team of 5 who think of Storm and Logan as the new kids. There is not a single unified view for any of these factions, let alone for the fandom as a whole., Speaking as someone who was reading X-Men and Tomb of Dracula long before they were movies, your opinions are yours alone. You can get upset about the lack of R rated movies or whatever the latest rumors on the MCU are, but you do not speak for all fans or even a majority of fans no matter how you define it.

I think everyone needs to understand this. There are many viewpoints from different demographics and individuals, and while not all are correct, no one should speak for someone else.

[Alan2099]

Wow, I'm surprised at all the overreaction to a rumor. "Oh my God! Wokeness is killing us". But X-Men is still the most progressive Marvel comic, right? I guess the metaphor doesn't work.

Maybe once upon a time it did. In more recent years, the X-men have leaned heavily into racism and not in a good way. Not "racism is bad we're all people," but more "Our people are more important than anyone else and even if they commit crimes it's okay, because they're the same race as we are."

Well, we are about to launch into Super-Woke territory now. Why not go for "All New, All Different: X-People!"

In the MC2 Universe, the team name had changed to the Uncanny X-People.
Of course the team is being led by Jubilee there, so take that as you will.

It was settled in the last 1-2 episode before that Evan Peters QS was an imposter and not her real quicksilver,

DAMMIT MAN! SPOILERS!

Sure, however you have to understand that we, us, I , you, they, mos-times are coming from different places. I come from the place of the source material the most, usually the biggest use of We for fans because we are fans of the books and the books does officially lean to the X-Universe.different or new suggestions are welcomed but you also have to take into account, those new ones are more from the MCU fans who just says.....Yes or great to anything Marvel studio announces.

You keep speaking for other people. Stop it.

MCU can announce tomorrow that mutants are some failed tony stark or bruce banner lab experiment and many mcu fans will quickly say, this is great and it will be a fitting plan to finally bring xmen in the mcu, while the xmen fans will have a different viewpoint about that for very obvious reasons.

In the Ultimate Universe mutants were created by the Weapon X project in an attempt to recreate Captain America and not too many people had a problem with that.

[Rincewind]

Now actually making Bobby gay in the comics is WOKE and a bad one. really bad one, because Bobby chased after Polaris for years

Sometimes if a gay person is not out, they will pretend to be attracted to the opposite sex. They will date, sometimes marry and have kids in the closet. Bobby, while shown dating, has never had a serious long term relationship. Speculation about Bobby has gone on for decades. I remember reading debates on the old AOL marvel boards about Bobby. When he came out in the comics, it was one of the least shocking revelations ever made.

Having an actual diverse line of characters is better than having a line of metaphorically diverse characters. The comic book industry has not had the best record of telling stories about diverse characters. I personally enjoy adaptations that update to a modern setting and diversity over trying to be a carbon copy of stories written decades ago for a entirely different audience demographic.

[Castle]

The people who bashed Rose Tico and Finn are the same anti-woke people who hated them being introduced in the first place. And what exactly is your point about the election?

Disney made a big error by not writing rose and finn well in the first place, some of the the racist folks ran with that and Disney just made matters worse by now choosing to sideline them.

I disagree. X-Men isn't perfect as is. The metaphor doesn't really work anymore. You seem to want metaphorical representation, instead of actual representation. Marginalized people can speak for themselves. That's what Black Panther did, and that seems to be the direction the MCU is heading.

I agree with this but this only applies more to real people not fictional characters. black panther, rose, fin are all fictional characters. Their metaphor representation can only be as good , great, genius based on how these fictional characters are written in the films. External- good reception just for having these characters even exist is limited and shallow.

That's real social commentary.

No it isnt. social commentary is not about just having a character look that away alone. it is about actually addressing how deep or complex your themes are and how the characters dwell on them.


You do know that black panther was kind of a very toned down mostly half hazzrd attempted retelling of Xavier and magneto from the comics and even movies? MCU even said so. the only difference is, the social commentary surrounding xavier and magneto has been handled a lot deeper , complex and more sell aware.

So this is the difference between fiction characters and real life characters like Ron Stallworth from Blackkkllansman.

If Black Panther was an xmen movie that was suppose to be a commentary on prejudice, it wont have faired that well, it will come off as very generic with only paint and dry story telling, which is what the movie is like most mcu films because Disney is quite limited tackling social themes in a complex manner unlike many xmen stuff.


X-Men 3 gets a lot of crap but the cure storyline tackled prejudice and hatred better than anything black panther did, you do know that black panther story is mostly about a king trying to keep his throne from his rogue cousin?

it is not about people been hated and feared for been black. infact it is opposite since the black people of Wakanda in black panther are the richest and most comfortable people maybe even in the whole mcu universe. Wolverine cant even go to a bar in xmen 1 without getting kicked out after he revealed himself as a mutant, only before he was called a freak. that is social commentary done well. Just having POC...just because ....leans more to tokenism than social commentary, which is what Rey and Fin became and even some parts of black panther because the film could have been a lot better.

[CosmiComic]

Maybe once upon a time it did. In more recent years, the X-men have leaned heavily into racism and not in a good way. Not "racism is bad we're all people," but more "Our people are more important than anyone else and even if they commit crimes it's okay, because they're the same race as we are."

Seems like the opposite of what it's supposed to stand for. Although an oppressed group wanting their own space isn't bigotry in of itself.

In the MC2 Universe, the team name had changed to the Uncanny X-People.
Of course the team is being led by Jubilee there, so take that as you will.

Seems ok.

You keep speaking for other people. Stop it.

Exactly

In the Ultimate Universe mutants were created by the Weapon X project in an attempt to recreate Captain America and not too many people had a problem with that.

Some might.

Having an actual diverse line of characters is better than having a line of metaphorically diverse characters. The comic book industry has not had the best record of telling stories about diverse characters. I personally enjoy adaptations that update to a modern setting and diversity over trying to be a carbon copy of stories written decades ago for a entirely different audience demographic.

I agree. Many comics have tried, though, but actual representation is the next step

[CosmiComic]

Disney made a big error by not writing rose and finn well in the first place, some of the the racist folks ran with that and Disney just made matters worse by now choosing to sideline them.



I agree with this but this only applies more to real people not fictional characters. black panther, rose, fin are all fictional characters. Their metaphor representation can only be as good , great, genius based on how they are written in the films. Extenral- good reception just for having these characters even exist is limited.


No it isnt. social commentrary is not about just having a character look that away alone. it is about actually addressing how deep or complex your themes are and how the characters dwell on them.


You do know that black panther was kind of a very toned down mostly half hazzrd attempted retelling of Xavier and magneto from the comics and even movies? the only difference is, the social commentary surrounding xavier and magneto has been handled a lot deeper , complex and more sell aware.

So this is the difference between fiction characters and real life characters like Ron Stallworth from Blackkkllansman.

If Black Panther was an xmen movie that was suppose to be a commentary on prejudice, it wont have faired that well, it will come off as very generic with only paint and dry story telling. X-Men 3 gets a lot of crap but the cure storyline tackled prejudice and hatred better than anything black panther did, you do know that black panther story is mostly about a king trying to keep his throne from his rogue cousin?

it is not about people been hated and feared for been black. infact it is opposite since the blacks in black panther are the richest and most comfortable people maybe even in the mcu universe. Wolverine cant even go to a bar in xmen 1 without getting kicked out after he revealed himself as a mutant, only before he was called a freak.

Black Panther the movie criticized Wakanda itself. That was part of the story.

Plus, Xavier and Magneto appropriated the actual civil rights struggle. I agree Killmonger is somewhat more built up in the movies than in the comics, but you can't ignore how the X-Men copied black culture in the first place, and Black Panther in the comics was dealing with real racism long before the X-Men started it.

A metaphor isn't a real substitute for directly addressing the issues. I didn't like everything about BP, but I liked it and how it tried to directly address the issue without using reasonably affluent white male stand-ins.

[Triniking1234]

Plus, Xavier and Magneto appropriated the actual civil rights struggle. I agree Killmonger is somewhat more built up in the movies than in the comics, but you can't ignore how the X-Men copied black culture in the first place, and Black Panther in the comics was dealing with real racism long before the X-Men started it.

A metaphor isn't a real substitute for directly addressing the issues. I didn't like everything about BP, but I liked it and how it tried to directly address the issue without using reasonably affluent white male stand-ins.

Thank God that's not what happens in the books. Xavier tries to tell people that Homo superior is the natural evolution of humans so they should allow mutants to prosper. Magneto wants mutants to take over mankind since they're superior.

[Castle]

Black Panther the movie criticized Wakanda itself. That was part of the story.

.

It hardly.... did not. it was a third tier part of the story not really centric to the plot. also criticising wakanda was not really about prejudice but about how the country may or may not be selfish for not wanting to share their wealth.

Truly really black panther did really have any big prejudice story arc, it just had some vague small references to black slaves Killmonger said something about that in the end. The main plot of a film like DOFP is that mutants have either been enslaved or have been sent to gas chambers simply because they are mutants, 80% of the mutant population have been taken out in some form and the x-men have to reverse it.

Plus, Xavier and Magneto appropriated the actual civil rights struggle. I agree Killmonger is somewhat more built up in the movies than in the comics, but you can't ignore how the X-Men copied black culture in the first place, and Black Panther in the comics was dealing with real racism long before the X-Men started it.

No they did not appropriate it, not even close. magneto is already jeiwsh.


Xavier had already seen the horrors of American slavery and the war to know what was coming for anyone who was different.

but you can't ignore how the X-Men copied black culture in the first place, and Black Panther in the comics was dealing with real racism long before the X-Men started it.

More like influenced than copy, or copy but make it your own or copy and take it to another level.

A metaphor isn't a real substitute for directly addressing the issues. I didn't like everything about BP, but I liked it and how it tried to directly address the issue without using reasonably affluent white male stand-ins.

Black Panther is light compared to how far xmen has taken things. it's not even comparable. I will give you an example. in a scene from DOFP. Mystique is shot , she tries to escape, however she is trapped in public. she first morphs into a black woman only to be dragged by magneto in the street, she then morphs into her blue slef and people are so panicked, they all flee from her because she has revealed herself as a mutant.

but I liked it and how it tried to directly address the issue without using reasonably affluent white male stand-ins.

This is true but this is not deep social commentary. Django Unchained is by light years a far deeper social commentary and not only because it has a black leading cowboy in a western film that is mostly a white genre and I mean John Wanye white. django is a fantastic social commentary because it takes the world of the westerns genre and merges it well with the real historical topic of slavery. this is how most best xmen stories are sort of written. Lastly it is marvel's fault that they never even tried to write so many land mark books on black panther tackling prejudice as they did with xmen. that is marvel's fault in comics as well as movies.

[CosmiComic]

I don't get how you can think X-Men's metaphor is somehow deeper than the real thing? Yes, Black Panther didn't go too deep into racism, but the entire world of Wakanda is a reaction to colonialism. The movie criticized isolationism and promoted global unity. It's more real than Mystique shape-shifting into other races.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Magneto only was shown to be Jewish later (X-Fans correct me on that if I'm wrong). But the mutants were created initially because Stan Lee was supposedly tired of thinking of origin stories, and added the mutant racism oppression thing later. Guys like Black Panther, Falcon and Miss Marvel (Carol) were dealing with prejudice long before that, even if it was awkward and hamfisted in the Silver Age/Bronze age way

[80sbaby]

Castle's problem is he's only looking at racism in the simplistic context of hating someone due to their race/ethnicity. In that respect, yeah the X-films spoke on it "better" than Black Panther.

However, there's more to racism than just that. Colonialism is a big factor into issues black people face today. Black Panther speaks to this and it's not a topic we've seen explored much, especially in superhero fiction.

[j9ac9k]

With the Marvel branding, that would make the movie's full title, "Marvel's the Mutants" and that's just silly. I expect it will be changed.