Zach Snyder planned for Bruce and Lois to have a son in his planned JL sequel

[rpmaluki]

Exactly.

Pages and pages here and barely anyone even cared about how horrible it was to Lois outside of how it made Clark look.

Instead the convo becomes about who he can hook up with to “get back at them.”

The misogyny is so depressing sometimes. With rare exceptions, No one ever cares about how she’s treated unless it’s really about some backwards masculinity pissing contest. God forbid someone is asked to just empathize with Lois and how unfair it is to her.

It’s what I dread most about Superman and Lois too. The minute Lois says or does one thing out of step people will be joking her own husband should cheat on her. That’s how this fandom rolls.

I can say that this is not true. Several posters have highlighted the despicable way Lois would have been used in these sequels. It is nasty and gross. It's not always about Clark. Passing off women between Superman and Batman has been the most misogynistic thing I have come across in DC. They treat women (including Diana) like objects for the boys to play with when it suits them (the suits/higher-ups), anything that will make them a quick buck.

[Nelliebly]

I still don't see why this gets thrown at Clark. It's a complete violation of his being. His genetic material was stolen from him and life was created using it without his consent. It's fucking disgusting. Would it be magnanimous of him to just accept Conner right away? Sure, but you can't fault him for having a very human reaction to finding out that he was essentially violated. And yet, here we are.

I admit, I'm partly mad that, yes, Batman gets Clark's girl but it's also that Batman robs Lois of her character and any reasons she would naturally resist that development fall by the wayside (and don't fucking tell me "but we didn't see how they execute it," Lois and this Batman are twelve bridges too far).

Both she and Clark are mangled so as to serve Bruce: Lois gets turned into the soil for Bruce's seed from which we get a proper Superman and a new Batman. Fucking awful for everyone involved including Bruce.

Omg thank you for saying this about Conner. I have always felt it was extremely disgusting to frame him as some kind of deadbeat when he was the one who was violated. Thank God someone else said it.

[Nelliebly]

I can say that this is not true. Several posters have highlighted the despicable way Lois would have been used in these sequels. It is nasty and gross. It's not always about Clark. Passing off women between Superman and Batman has been the most misogynistic thing I have come across in DC. They treat women (including Diana) like objects for the boys to play with when it suits them (the suits/higher-ups), anything that will make them a quick buck.

A few of you have, yes. And it’s noted. But I think it’s fair to call out that it’s a common problem for this fandom to consistently view these things through a hyper masculine lens and not always give the weight deserved to the ways she is specifically violated. I think that’s a fair call out.

[Prime]

Frankly, the “cuck” piece of this is like the least offensive thing about this but it’s not shocking it’s what so many people are latching on to here since asking people to care about Lois’s dignity not in relation to how it makes Clark look is apparently too much to ask of most people.

Forget Clark for a second. What about HER?

It’s not just that she wouldn’t move on with the person who tried to kill the love of her life to the degree that, as was pointed out earlier in the thread, she put her body between them just as he was about to deliver the killing blow....it’s that this turns her into an object to acquire. A conquest for men. It takes her heroic actions in BvS to clear Clark’s name and makes it about a pissing contest between two men.

I’ve defended Snyder in the past for various reasons but this entire plot concept is indefensible. It’s deeply misogynistic and humiliating to her. It treats her like a prize to be passed around and like a uterus for hire. This is obviously extremely unfair to Superman, but more than anything, it’s deeply degrading and unfair to Lois. She is the real victim here.

The whole cuck thing is insulting to me as a fan of Superman.

However, that doesn't mean that what's done to Lois isn't any better. It's isn't. It's awful. Snyder literally has her hook up with the man who tri d to kill her boyfriend and whose stupid actions actually got him killed.

[Arsenal]

Bruce doing everything he can to bring Clark back out of guilt would make more sense than doing it out of some love for Lois.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

To be honest the only way this stuff would make is that Bruce loves Superman but he's too repressed so he sleeps with the person who slept with Superman, and the child we get is metaphorically Bruce and Clark's baby, and not his and Lois'.

If Snyder just made Batman have a crush on Superman and express love for him. That would be far more healthy and interesting than this roundabout random thing he cooked up.

[Prime]

Making Batman actually be in love with Superman would not be such a bad angle. It's pretty interesting.

[The World]

Yeah, I've said before that Superman fans can be his absolute worst defenders and a big reason why is how often their expectations of him are couched in some deeply regressive ideas about masculinity. I think I first realized this when I saw how unempathetic people were towards YJ Superman for his discomfort towards the circumstances of Superboy's creation and I recall people making fun of post crisis Superman for that time he underwent therapy. Then there is often how complaints about post crisis, Smallville or DCEU Superman boil down to him being more emotionally vulnerable than what people would expect.

This idea of Snyder's is bad but for a huge chunk of Superman fans, it's more due to "Batman stole his woman".

Though I like Post-Crisis Superman well enough I do criticize him more than most, and I really don't care if "Batman stole his woman" or not. In fact it's usually Post-Crisis fans that seem to twist themselves in knots over the status of Superman and Lois's relationship.

As for masculinity wasn't it Byrne who was desperate to get Clark Kent out of the geek/poindexter category and into the Super Athlete/Home coming King/Big Man on Campus category so that Clark Kent could be real?

[lotchj]

To be honest the only way this stuff would make is that Bruce loves Superman but he's too repressed so he sleeps with the person who slept with Superman, and the child we get is metaphorically Bruce and Clark's baby, and not his and Lois'.

If Snyder just made Batman have a crush on Superman and express love for him. That would be far more healthy and interesting than this roundabout random thing he cooked up.

You got to be kidding!!!

[lotchj]

Making Batman actually be in love with Superman would not be such a bad angle. It's pretty interesting.

That's not something i'd be interested in seeing!!!

[SiegePerilous02]

That's not something i'd be interested in seeing!!!

Why not? They both have more sexual tension with each other than either has with Wonder Woman, and for some reason they keep looking to her when they want to shake things up away from the normal love interests.

Let these two morons find love/misery with each other, and let Lois learn the ways of Sappho with Wonder Woman. Both these ladies deserve better than these iterations of Clark and Bruce, it might as well be with each other.

[Prime]

Why not? They both have more sexual tension with each other than either has with Wonder Woman, and for some reason they keep looking to her when they want to shake things up away from the normal love interests.

Let these two morons find love/misery with each other, and let Lois learn the ways of Sappho with Wonder Woman. Both these ladies deserve better than these iterations of Clark and Bruce, it might as well be with each other.

Bruce? Definitely is a repressed homosexual. Or at least that's how it looks like. Clark on the other hand probably wants nothing to do with Bruce outside of saving the world. And can you blame him? This guy wanted to kill him because of hi paranoia. There is no reason for them to be friends.

[SiegePerilous02]

Bruce? Definitely is a repressed homosexual. Or at least that's how it looks like. Clark on the other hand probably wants nothing to do with Bruce outside of saving the world. And can you blame him? This guy wanted to kill him because of hi paranoia. There is no reason for them to be friends.

If we were looking at this logically, yes.

But logic clearly flew out the window, so we might as well go as big and dumb as possible lol

[Prime]

If we were looking at this logically, yes.

But logic clearly flew out the window, so we might as well go as big and dumb as possible lol

I still wonder who was the idiot suit that gave the keys to Snyder? Like, would it have been difficult to have Grant Morrison map out the movies?

[SiegePerilous02]

I still wonder who was the idiot suit that gave the keys to Snyder? Like, would it have been difficult to have Grant Morrison map out the movies?

Morrison would have been far better to bring on board as a consultation than Johns, at least for Superman and maybe Batman. If we're going with Hal in the DCEU, I'd also prefer Morrison be consulted than Johns at this point. Though for Wonder Woman, it would have been better to bring in Rucka, Simone and/or Jimenez to offer some input instead of either of them. We got good results for Aquaman and Shazam using Johns' runs as basis, so he could still be involved in some capacity.