Zach Snyder planned for Bruce and Lois to have a son in his planned JL sequel

[Prime]

Morrison would have been far better to bring on board as a consultation than Johns, at least for Superman and maybe Batman. If we're going with Hal in the DCEU, I'd also prefer Morrison be consulted than Johns at this point. Though for Wonder Woman, it would have been better to bring in Rucka, Simone and/or Jimenez to offer some input instead of either of them. We got good results for Aquaman and Shazam using Johns' runs as basis, so he could still be involved in some capacity.

So Johns, Morrison and Rucka should have mapped out the universe?

[SiegePerilous02]

So Johns, Morrison and Rucka should have mapped out the universe?

Maybe. They all have different characters they are well suited to. Rucka for example is great with Wonder Woman and the female members of the Bat-cast and the cops, but his Batman is more often than not a boring jerk and his Superman is kind of "meh". Morrison is the best modern Superman writer by a country mile, but struggles with Wonder Woman herself and the Amazons. But had the best version of Dr. Psycho and their Etta is great. Johns is pretty weak with the Trinity beyond some basic ideas, but he is stronger with Aquaman, the Flashes, JSA, etc.

Maybe a Kevin Feige like figure could oversee it everything because we would need a big boss with the final word and to make sure everything stays consistent. But Johns, Morrison, Rucka and maybe Waid being brought in to throw ideas around to map out the universe could lead to interesting results. Snyder, Johns and Terrio seem like a match made in Hell, but the other four would at least have better grasps on all the major characters between them.

[HsssH]

I'm not sure about WW. I liked first two WW volumes by Morrison way more than Rucka's recent WW work.

[Vordan]

I still wonder who was the idiot suit that gave the keys to Snyder? Like, would it have been difficult to have Grant Morrison map out the movies?

Christopher Nolan lol. WB wanted Nolan to reboot Superman like he did Batman but Nolan wasn’t interested. But Nolan was willing to basically pick the guy who would. Snyder wasn’t his first choice but everyone else wanted more time to revise the script and WB needed a movie out by a certain date because of the Siegel lawsuit.

[SiegePerilous02]

I'm not sure about WW. I liked first two WW volumes by Morrison way more than Rucka's recent WW work.

I like them both too and am looking forward to getting the third this week, but they are kind of a mess and far from Morrison's best work. It's like they have a lot of stuff to say but not enough time to flesh any of it out.

I think as far input for a mainstream version, we could do without Hippolyta stealing Hercules's sperm to make Diana and the Amazons coming off as Straw Feminists. This was worse in the first volume though, I liked Hippolyta and the Amazons more in the second.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Christopher Nolan lol. WB wanted Nolan to reboot Superman like he did Batman but Nolan wasn’t interested. But Nolan was willing to basically pick the guy who would. Snyder wasn’t his first choice but everyone else wanted more time to revise the script and WB needed a movie out by a certain date because of the Siegel lawsuit.

Nolan had the impression that Snyder was passionate and interested in making a Superman movie of the kind WB needed (something that would be commercial but would lead to a shared universe) and so he backed him. Nolan didn't entirely agree with many of Snyder's decisions (such as snapping Zod) and he certainly wasn't cool with Batman being shoehorned in so quickly into Snyder's movies after he just wrapped the Dark Knight Trilogy a few years back.
https://www.indiewire.com/2013/06/ch...-result-96895/

However, Nolan also believes in directorial freedom so while he expressed disagreements and misgivings to Snyder he would ultimately back his decisions.

Nolan, like Tim Burton before him, ultimately only saw his Batman movies, as commerical gigs whose cache allowed him to make the movies he really wanted to make (Inception, The Prestige, Interstellar, Dunkirk, Tenet) so at the end of the day he didn't have real skin in the game about superheroes and doing justice to the character. So he wasn't gonna fight Snyder one way or another. Snyder though would have been content devoting decades of his life to doing Superman stuff and that was the passion that WB needed (just like the MCU kinda expects people to see the superhero stuff as a committment and career) which Nolan didn't really have, not all the way.

[Shockdingo]

As others have already said on the movies thread, this sounds like the ultimate Batgod wankfest at the expense of Kal.

This is exactly the perfect way to say this. You can't hear it now, but I'm screaming with disgust. From early on, I wasn't a fan of how Superman was being handled in these. MoS was alright, I liked it when I first watched, but then had issues the more I thought about it, but BvS and everything else concerned and disappointed me. In addition to being evil, supes has to go through this awful arc and have Batman's death on him? I already hate Injustice for Evil Supes, but if this movie maked an entire generation hate Superman, I'd riot...ugh, I'm still made about Rocksteady going with Evil Supes in his modern game debut, instead of giving us a damn traditional Superman game.

[JAK]

Exactly.

Pages and pages here and barely anyone even cared about how horrible it was to Lois outside of how it made Clark look.

The misogyny is so depressing sometimes. With rare exceptions, No one ever cares about how she’s treated unless it’s really about some backwards masculinity pissing contest. God forbid someone is asked to just empathize with Lois and how unfair it is to her.

That's a very good point. I should say that, for my part, I'm using "disrespect/not understanding Superman" to be a shorthand for his entire universe, and that absolutely includes Lois - but you're right, she's treated worse than anyone in this.

Instead the convo becomes about who he can hook up with to “get back at them.”

That's also something I'd find disgusting - especially when this is supposed to be concerning a "mature" take on the Superverse. I always described it as mature through the eyes of a 12 year old.

It’s what I dread most about Superman and Lois too. The minute Lois says or does one thing out of step people will be joking her own husband should cheat on her. That’s how this fandom rolls.

I fear you might be right, but hopefully she can get better treatment over time with her name in the title - especially with people aware of what happened behind the scenes.

[ssupes]

Pages and pages here and barely anyone even cared about how horrible it was to Lois outside of how it made Clark look.

Instead the convo becomes about who he can hook up with to “get back at them.”

I didn't see anyone discussing who Clark can date to quote "get back at them" only a conversation about who he could possibly date after leaving a toxic relationship because any relationship that is justified by saying "they need me more" isn't a healthy one.

[Tzigone]

I didn't see anyone discussing who Clark can date to quote "get back at them" only a conversation about who he could possibly date after leaving a toxic relationship because any relationship that is justified by saying "they need me more" isn't a healthy one.

Well, someone did say he could send Barry back in time to screw Martha Wayne as revenge, so that was an icky joke.

[Prime]

Christopher Nolan lol. WB wanted Nolan to reboot Superman like he did Batman but Nolan wasn’t interested. But Nolan was willing to basically pick the guy who would. Snyder wasn’t his first choice but everyone else wanted more time to revise the script and WB needed a movie out by a certain date because of the Siegel lawsuit.

Wait really? He should have directed the first Superman movie.but i guess his ego told him he is to good for cape stuff

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Wait really? He should have directed the first Superman movie.but i guess his ego told him he is to good for cape stuff

It's not ego if you feel that you wouldn't be the best fit for the material, that you should get out of the way, and you would much rather make movies and ideas that you are interested in (i.e. Inception, Interstellar, Dunkirk).

Tim Burton after Batman Returns faced a ton of controversy so he decided that he's had his fill of Batman, got to do all he wished, and simply stepped away and let WB do as they wished. That's the opposite of ego.

Ego is Snyder continuing and digging himself deeper and deeper even against repeated public criticism and studio pressure. If Snyder were Burton or Nolan, he would have quit and stepped away with Man of Steel and BVS, rather than continue to stick around with a Justice League that was totally compromised.

[Prime]

It's not ego if you feel that you wouldn't be the best fit for the material, that you should get out of the way, and you would much rather make movies and ideas that you are interested in (i.e. Inception, Interstellar, Dunkirk).

Tim Burton after Batman Returns faced a ton of controversy so he decided that he's had his fill of Batman, got to do all he wished, and simply stepped away and let WB do as they wished. That's the opposite of ego.

Ego is Snyder continuing and digging himself deeper and deeper even against repeated public criticism and studio pressure. If Snyder were Burton or Nolan, he would have quit and stepped away with Man of Steel and BVS, rather than continue to stick around with a Justice League that was totally compromised.

His mannerism says otherwise. I mean he should have just done the first one. Snyder should have been replaced after Man Of Steel. Let someone else do MOS 2 before dragging Batman in.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

His mannerism says otherwise.

Even if it does, so what? Not everyone in the world likes Superman, and the ones who don't, we all agree I think, should not direct movies on Superman, right?

Snyder should have been replaced after Man Of Steel.

Agreed. He definitely should have been replaced after BVS.

[manwhohaseverything]

His mannerism says otherwise. I mean he should have just done the first one. Snyder should have been replaced after Man Of Steel. Let someone else do MOS 2 before dragging Batman in.

You do realise ,the higher ups would have dragged in batman regardless of what.They wanted DCU.Get that shared universe money.Batman sells merchandise.Batman has more avenues for it,than superman.Batman is basically a mecha.