Zach Snyder planned for Bruce and Lois to have a son in his planned JL sequel

[Gaius]

Since the silver age, Lois's interest in Batman is something very common, it is not something that I made up or an insult. In series like Smallville he dated half JL, in Lois and Clark he dated Lex, in the animated series he almost left metropolis to go with Batman, in the comics it is even worse. the reality is that Lois doesn't think much about it when it comes to choosing a partner. Clark is always madly in love while Lois is looking, it would be good if things change, I prefer clark with Maxima or Lashina, the stories would surely be more interesting than another comic about the puppy Clark and his owner Lois.

Most of these instances of Lois having a crush on Batman seem pretty far spread apart/inconsequential, largely footnotes for nerds to bring up like "Superman dated a mermaid". I'd say that's quite bit different than it being the emotional climax of a major blockbuster franchise.

Or should we turn the tables and look at the amount of times Superman writers have used variants of "dead Lois" for Superman's character progression in far more prominent stories and media.

[kingaliencracker]

The MoS sequel would've featured an old grizzled Batman since 2012 for those who followed the rumors. The sequel that was fast-tracked in June 2013 is what ended being titled BvS, it never was a solo SM movie as WB wanted to build their own cinematic universe like Marvel and Snyder's suggesting to have BM as main antagonist in the MoS sequel gave them the opportunity to start. While I agree that SM got further sidelined, they never introduced BM or did JL because of the MoS reception, this is an unfounded speculation.



C'mon, he is debunking the speculations that BM was introduced after MoS release. He said he was called to work at the Superman 75th short when he saw the BvS storyboard. The Superman 75th short was made in 2013 not in 2014 as you are saying.

Again, I'm just going off public information at the time. I know what Oliva is trying to say, which he was also saying in response to someone todebunk the notion that the only reason why Batman was included in the MoS sequel (which ultimately turned into Batman v Superman) was because of the lackluster response to MoS. But his timeline doesn't make sense because Goyer & Snyder weren't even signed on to do the MoS sequel until June 2013, so why would they bring in Oliva to storyboard the sequel in April?

There were also interviews with Snyder at the time MoS was released (which admittedly I can't find now) in which he was asked about the Wayne building appearance and whether it was leading to an extended DC filmverse, and he made it clear that while that may be someone else's intent at some point, he saw MoS more as a standalone story.

[stargazer01]

If this is true, Snyder truly is a hack director. I'm losing all the respect for him the more I hear about his weird ideas for Superman and DC.

I still like Man of Steel a lot, but that wasn't all him I think.

[kingaliencracker]

Also, just from a deduction standpoint, it's clear that Batman was shoehorned into a plot that was clearly supposed to be a straight sequel to Man of Steel in BvS. The whole story of BvS revolves around Lex Luthor manipulating the world in turning against Superman and using Zod's body to create Doomsday. This is especially clear in the Director's Cut which is even more Superman-centric than the theatrical release. You take Batman out of it completely and it's a story that works perfectly fine (maybe even better actually) as a straight sequel to Man of Steel than a Justice League prologue.

[Nelliebly]

Si

nce the silver age, Lois's interest in Batman is something very common, it is not something that I made up or an insult. In series like Smallville he dated half JL, in Lois and Clark he dated Lex, in the animated series he almost left metropolis to go with Batman, in the comics it is even worse. the reality is that Lois doesn't think much about it when it comes to choosing a partner. Clark is always madly in love while Lois is looking, it would be good if things change, I prefer clark with Maxima or Lashina, the stories would surely be more interesting than another comic about the puppy Clark and his owner Lois.

You are blatantly ignoring that Lois’s interest in Oliver Queen and in Aquaman on Smallville was explicitly because she believed they were trying to make the world a better place. Those were her exact words. The animated series explored the same idea—she was attracted to Bruce because she believed deep down he was a very good man.

Lois Lane is a woman of action. She wants the world to be better. It’s not the indictment you think it is that she is drawn to men who are getting up off their butts and actually doing something to try and create a better world. She’s looking for a partner who cares as much about justice being served as she does. She falls in love with Clark Kent specifically on Smallville and elsewhere because she believes he’s the best and kindest man.

The very idea that she doesn’t love Clark is almost too laughable to respond to as the entire story of structured on the idea that she loves Clark/Superman more than ANYONE because she sees into his heart. You can’t have it both ways here. You can’t say that you are a big fan of superheroes because they are men of action who get things done but then punish someone like Lois for being attracted to the very qualities of goodness and heroism that you uphold as a fan for these men. That’s called hypocrisy.

Finally, the hypocrisy of you suggesting Maxima as a more suitable and deserving partner for Clark when Maxima’s history is littered with eugenics BS and her interest in Superman specifically for biological and feats of strength reasons is RICH.

Again, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t embrace the idea that these heroes are good and wonderful and heroic and go getters but then turn around and demonize Lois for being attracted to men who are good, kind and trying to change the world. You can’t expect us to put Superman on a pedestal but then act like Lois is some kind of gold digging Tramp because she loves him for all the wonderful qualities that you uphold as a fan. That’s misogyny. And it’s ridiculous.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Again, I'm just going off public information at the time. I know what Oliva is trying to say, which he was also saying in response to someone todebunk the notion that the only reason why Batman was included in the MoS sequel (which ultimately turned into Batman v Superman) was because of the lackluster response to MoS. But his timeline doesn't make sense because Goyer & Snyder weren't even signed on to do the MoS sequel until June 2013, so why would they bring in Oliva to storyboard the sequel in April?

There were also interviews with Snyder at the time MoS was released (which admittedly I can't find now) in which he was asked about the Wayne satellite appearance and whether it was leading to an extended DC filmverse, and he made it clear that while that may be someone else's intent at some point, he saw MoS more as a standalone story.

Public announcement doesn't give you an idea of the timeline because they work for long on a project or sign it before an official announcement. The JL actors were cast in 2013 (Affleck and Gadot were officially announced that year), Momoa auditioned to play Batman in BvS and was choose for Aquaman, it was asked him if the Aquaman rumors were true and he denied. When was the official announcement? 1 or 2 years after the rumors?

Before MoS release, WB's priority became building a shared universe like Marvel. This article from The Wrap (few days before MoS release) reveals WB' plans of doing a Batman v Superman movie, JL and producing movies on less popular characters like Aquaman after Marvel shown them the way: https://www.thewrap.com/man-steel-wa...-cavill-97021/

If WB was reactionary, it was for The Avengers success. MoS' reception didn't lead to the inclusion of BM and building a shared universe.

[kingaliencracker]

Public announcement doesn't give you an idea of the timeline because they work for long on a project or sign it before an official announcement. The JL actors were cast in 2013 (Affleck and Gadot were officially announced that year), Momoa auditioned to play Batman in BvS and was choose for Aquaman, it was asked him if the Aquaman rumors were true and he denied. When was the official announcement? 1 or 2 years after the rumors?

Before MoS release, WB's priority became building a shared universe like Marvel. This article from The Wrap (few days before MoS release) reveals WB' plans of doing a Batman v Superman movie, JL and producing movies on less popular characters like Aquaman after Marvel shown them the way: https://www.thewrap.com/man-steel-wa...-cavill-97021/

If WB was reactionary, it was for The Avengers success. MoS' reception didn't lead to the inclusion of BM and building a shared universe.

I have no doubt that WB wanted to do an extended universe akin to Marvel but if Man of Steel had done $1 billion at the box office and had an 80 rating on Rotten Tomatoes or whatever, then I certainly believe we would have gotten a straight sequel to MOS versus the quasi prologue to JL we ultimately got. It's likely we would have gotten the MOS sequel, and BVS/DOJ would have been its own separate thing.

Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle, and again I can't find the Snyder interviews so I'm only going off of the timeline and what makes sense. I'm also going off the fact that BVS's director's cut was substantially more Superman-centric and was heavily cut to feature Batman more prominently. Whether that was Snyder, WB, or a combination of the two, I can't really say. Given that Snyder was going for Batman being the ultimate savior of the DCEU in JL and the Lois storyline, it's clear he either always has or through the process favored Batman over Superman.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I have no doubt that WB wanted to do an extended universe akin to Marvel but if Man of Steel had done $1 billion at the box office and had an 80 rating on Rotten Tomatoes or whatever, then I certainly believe we would have gotten a straight sequel to MOS versus the quasi prologue to JL we ultimately got. It's likely we would have gotten the MOS sequel, and BVS/DOJ would have been its own separate thing.


Maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle, and again I can't find the Snyder interviews so I'm only going off of the timeline and what makes sense. I'm also going off the fact that BVS's director's cut was substantially more Superman-centric and was heavily cut to feature Batman more prominently. Whether that was Snyder, WB, or a combination of the two, I can't really say. Given that Snyder was going for Batman being the ultimate savior of the DCEU in JL and the Lois storyline, it's clear he either always has or through the process favored Batman over Superman.

I agree we would've got a MoS solo sequel along with BvS/JL but still the priority was starting multiple franchises like Marvel instead of moving with just one franchise. And a MoS solo was in the works too according to Amy Adams: https://screenrant.com/man-of-steel-...script-update/ but it went nowhere as many of the DCEU projects.

[Blue22]

1. Brought the Kryptonians to Earth which they never would come otherwise, making him indirectly responsible for all the deaths and destruction
2. Said death and destruction drives Bruce and Lex insane causing the events of BvS
3. His death triggers worldwide fear and despair causing the Mother Boxes to activate and Steppenwolf to come back (which means he was a more powerful symbol of fear than he ever was of hope)
4. Gets corrupted by Darkseid, the only member of the JL so weak willed as to fall to Anti-Life, and helps Darkseid take over
He completely fails to have any meaningful positive impact, and in the end it’s Batman who saves the day, inspires a legacy via a son with Lois, and creates a new Age of Heroes. If Superman had died on his way to Earth none of the above would’ve happened and the world would be better off for it.

Don't forget the Suicide Squad. That was on him too lol

[JAK]

Lois is a SECONDARY character Superman is the main one, all the other characters in his universe are to make the universe grow and advance, the main concern is Superman. Lois is not treated in the best way, but besides the pregnancy there is nothing wrong about how they write her, she is the classic Lois, who is attracted to every man she meets, the same one who flirts with Bruce at the slightest opportunity , in comics, series and animation, for a long time superman deserves someone better than a SECONDARY character and love interest who seems to love him because there is no one better.

Since the silver age, Lois's interest in Batman is something very common, it is not something that I made up or an insult. In series like Smallville he dated half JL, in Lois and Clark he dated Lex, in the animated series he almost left metropolis to go with Batman, in the comics it is even worse. the reality is that Lois doesn't think much about it when it comes to choosing a partner. Clark is always madly in love while Lois is looking, it would be good if things change, I prefer clark with Maxima or Lashina, the stories would surely be more interesting than another comic about the puppy Clark and his owner Lois.

My first thought was to be a smarta** and say "Maxima, just let it go - Superman doesn't love you", but if you're going to talk about Lois running around in the silver age, why aren't you bringing up Lana, Lori, and a whole host of other women - some of whom Superman even pitted against each other (especially on the comic covers, but still)? Super-dickery is a thing for a reason, and everyone had their Silver-Age turn being written as a petty person that few people now would give the time of day.

But even in Post-Crisis continuity (where Lois has arguably been treated the best) Clark dated several people, including Cat Grant for a time. It's never really been one-sided. As for Smallville, I've raised concerns about Lois having dated other members of the JL, but that's not from a character level, it's from a "don't the writers know how this is going to look, why would they do this to her" level.

But... Maxima and Lashina?.... I'm sorry, I just can't take any of the rest of that seriously after reading that. It's such a surface-level read of relationships, I just...can't.

Also:

superman deserves someone better than a SECONDARY character

Maxima and Lashina are secondary characters on their *best* days. Usually, they're third/fourth tier. And unless the writer wants to promote another character at the expense of Superman, you'd be hard-pressed to make the claim that any other character in a Superman-centric media *isn't* a secondary character in relation to Superman. So dismissing Lois as a "secondary" character isn't the slam-dunk you're imagining. Besides, at least Lois has had her own book from time to time.


Anyway, I'm also going to watch the Snyder cut out of sheer morbid curiosity, and secure in the knowledge that I'll never have to worry about him messing with Lois, Clark, or the Super-verse again in any kind of "this is the mainstream version of Superman" capacity.

[Vordan]

I wouldn’t be too sure of that. The Snyder Cut happened after all, against all odds. I could easily see some idiot at WB deciding that what they need is Snyder’s JL2 and JL3.

[NaVi]

Si


You are blatantly ignoring that Lois’s interest in Oliver Queen and in Aquaman on Smallville was explicitly because she believed they were trying to make the world a better place. Those were her exact words. The animated series explored the same idea—she was attracted to Bruce because she believed deep down he was a very good man.

Lois Lane is a woman of action. She wants the world to be better. It’s not the indictment you think it is that she is drawn to men who are getting up off their butts and actually doing something to try and create a better world. She’s looking for a partner who cares as much about justice being served as she does. She falls in love with Clark Kent specifically on Smallville and elsewhere because she believes he’s the best and kindest man.

The very idea that she doesn’t love Clark is almost too laughable to respond to as the entire story of structured on the idea that she loves Clark/Superman more than ANYONE because she sees into his heart. You can’t have it both ways here. You can’t say that you are a big fan of superheroes because they are men of action who get things done but then punish someone like Lois for being attracted to the very qualities of goodness and heroism that you uphold as a fan for these men. That’s called hypocrisy.

Finally, the hypocrisy of you suggesting Maxima as a more suitable and deserving partner for Clark when Maxima’s history is littered with eugenics BS and her interest in Superman specifically for biological and feats of strength reasons is RICH.

Again, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t embrace the idea that these heroes are good and wonderful and heroic and go getters but then turn around and demonize Lois for being attracted to men who are good, kind and trying to change the world. You can’t expect us to put Superman on a pedestal but then act like Lois is some kind of gold digging Tramp because she loves him for all the wonderful qualities that you uphold as a fan. That’s misogyny. And it’s ridiculous.

Lois is a woman of action especially at night. on smallvile he dated half JL and a couple of criminals. Lois loves Clark for his heart, even being friends it took him years to discover that heart and while he discovered it he showed interest in Bruce, surely his interest in Bruce was for his heart and not for being rich and handsome. I value Maxima as a love interest, not as a wife. Lois is a supporting character and Superman's love interest, not Bruce, but it seems otherwise. finally in the new52 in a batman / superman comic that shows them when they were younger, they lose their memory and batman seeks help from lois, 5m later they are kissing, when batman regains his memory, he pushes Lois, as he no longer has Batman looks for Superman, as you can see, what Lois is most interested in is the heart.

[Nelliebly]

“Lois is a woman of action, especially at night.” LOL.

Dude, I know you are trying to slut shame here thats painfully obvious but I’m just going to laugh about it.

Joking that Lois is a slut in 2021 is such a boring joke.

Especially because given her intense and aggressive personality she’s probably amazing in bed. Their sex life is really good. It is not the own you think it is to joke like this about Lois. Clark is across canon and consistently super into all the stuff you think is an insult. But ok. Whatever.

[Prime]

I can't believe Hack Snyder thought this was a good idea.

[NaVi]

My first thought was to be a smarta** and say "Maxima, just let it go - Superman doesn't love you", but if you're going to talk about Lois running around in the silver age, why aren't you bringing up Lana, Lori, and a whole host of other women - some of whom Superman even pitted against each other (especially on the comic covers, but still)? Super-dickery is a thing for a reason, and everyone had their Silver-Age turn being written as a petty person that few people now would give the time of day.

But even in Post-Crisis continuity (where Lois has arguably been treated the best) Clark dated several people, including Cat Grant for a time. It's never really been one-sided. As for Smallville, I've raised concerns about Lois having dated other members of the JL, but that's not from a character level, it's from a "don't the writers know how this is going to look, why would they do this to her" level.

But... Maxima and Lashina?.... I'm sorry, I just can't take any of the rest of that seriously after reading that. It's such a surface-level read of relationships, I just...can't.

Also:

Maxima and Lashina are secondary characters on their *best* days. Usually, they're third/fourth tier. And unless the writer wants to promote another character at the expense of Superman, you'd be hard-pressed to make the claim that any other character in a Superman-centric media *isn't* a secondary character in relation to Superman. So dismissing Lois as a "secondary" character isn't the slam-dunk you're imagining. Besides, at least Lois has had her own book from time to time.


Anyway, I'm also going to watch the Snyder cut out of sheer morbid curiosity, and secure in the knowledge that I'll never have to worry about him messing with Lois, Clark, or the Super-verse again in any kind of "this is the mainstream version of Superman" capacity.

I repeat that the main character is Superman, he has rights that his secondary characters do not have, in the same way that Wonder Woman has rights that his secondary characters do not have, judging the main and secondary characters at the same level is a mistake, especially if the Secondary character is the principal's love interest. For 30 years Lois has become a chain, the marriage, something that in the comics has never worked, the son who is taking the Superman comics from Superman, being the heart of Superman and that if she dies Superman dies and is born a monster. Lois does more harm than good.