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  1. #91

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    Sweet Christmas, this is abysmal.

    Snyder's vision is pretty much a microcosm of DC at its worst. Edge-lord nonsense revolving around Super-Jesus and Bat-God fighting while all the other heroes are just useless pittance in between. Oh, and Wonder Woman chops a few heads off...because that's what empowerment is, right?

    I can't wait for his Justice League to come and go so we can all forget it. Or try to, because we all know his stans won't let it die.
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  2. #92
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I used to think that it was the panic button scenario. Made MOS, it didn't perform as they wanted, so they pivoted to Batman. But then I heard the complete opposite, that they went into MOS always with the plan to get to a Batman conflict quickly. I tend to believe now the evidence leans moreso to that. They just needed to do Superman first to create the catalyst that got their TDKR style older Batman to show up.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  3. #93
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Didn't they make MOS because of the Superman rights?

  4. #94
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    I think people are spending too much energy on something that is never happening and was an idea many years ago. It's like you don't think that with years later after growing and learning Zack couldn't understand that some of his previous ideas are bad. This one didn't even made it further from old storyboard. For those of you here who keeps writing that his 5 film arc wasn't going to be about Superman should watch this part from one of recent interviews:



    And if you are willing enough, give a shot to this interview too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKPL8zTaaQ

  5. #95
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Its not that the verbatim original idea was so abysmal, we understand it was an old draft rejected. But its that it gives meaningful insight on his view of these characters. He views Batman as the main protagonist that Superman just kinda sets up more than anything else. And there's evidence without the actual filmed materials themselves to back that up beyond this new info. Did his mind change on some things and was forced to change others? Surely. Do I think his mind changed that completely and he got more into Superman than it originally seemed based on the old ideas? I don't, honestly. I think its mostly blowing smoke now. That's my opinion, it can't be proven, but the window into the past ideas leads me to the opinion.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  6. #96
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    I’m in the minority who doesn’t mind the idea that much but it clearly wasn’t the best idea he could’ve gone with. The idea is kind of worse than even when the DCAU tried to hook Bruce and Lois together because here it’s literally after Bruce tried to kill her boyfriend which she bore witness to the attempt. Sure, time heals all wounds but come on. Anyway, no use in getting hanged up about this certain detail since it was never getting pursued after the poor response to BvS. But imagine an alternate universe in which this actually got made...it would’ve set the fandom world on fire.
    Last edited by Amadeus Arkham; 03-05-2021 at 01:38 PM.
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  7. #97
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    I think people are spending too much energy on something that is never happening and was an idea many years ago. It's like you don't think that with years later after growing and learning Zack couldn't understand that some of his previous ideas are bad. This one didn't even made it further from old storyboard. For those of you here who keeps writing that his 5 film arc wasn't going to be about Superman should watch this part from one of recent interviews:



    And if you are willing enough, give a shot to this interview too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKPL8zTaaQ
    Sure, but his arc for Superman becoming a more classic Superman also involved Bruce impregnating the love of his life and then raising Bruce's kid. Look, I think Clark is absolutely the kind of guy who would be a great father to his wife's child regardless of their birth father but that doesn't change that Snyder thought it necessary for Superman to be killed, revived and raise Bruce's son for him to grow into Superman.

    Keep in mind every level of a story is constructed. Look at Injustice. Yes, having Clark be the hand that kills Lois would traumatize him in ways we've never seen and may actually help push him heel (I don't think it would, but arguably this would definitely be a strong shove out of idealism and towards perhaps changing his approach) but that doesn't change that they did that so Bruce and Clark would be enemies and were fishing for a reason for that to occur.

    Snyder is deliberate. I don't like his decisions and think a lot of them are vapid, but he does have reasons for doing what he does. He wanted to create a new Batman after Bruce's sacrifice and he figured he could tie Clark's journey in there as an accessory to Batman's story. The same with Lois. They're all pawns to serve Bruce's narrative and that involves killing Clark and positioning Lois and Bruce to hook up in the interim. Everything is constructed to serve the Bat god.

    He may have had a five movie plan for Clark but that doesn't change that it was a subordinate one that ultimately takes his own story beats and supporting cast and uses them to advance his arc for Batman.


    Look at his reasoning for the black suit in the video you posted. His body language is one of someone trying to explain a high concept, but he settles on his reasoning for the black suit being a good time deliminator because it denotes a visual difference in era. Classic suit v black suit. The black suit isn't unique in that respect. It could be a spit curl. It could be the trunks. It could be vibrant, bold colors. It could be a lack of a cape. It could be the Fleischer suit, the Reeve suit, the Reborn suit, etc. All he's doing is looking for an in-story reason to justify the black suit because he wants it (and it ties to Death of Superman, sure, but he hardly touches on that and instead hones in on it being a visual reference to time's passage).

    These are stories. They're all crafted in very particular ways. It's not an accident that Bruce and Lois specifically hook up. It's the man who moved heaven and earth to attempt to murder Clark (yes, he went into that with the premeditated intent to kill Superman) and Lois hooking up with the guy who helped put the love of her life in the ground. It's goddamn awful. That's what makes it so damn funny and why it acts as a big silver bullet to anyone trying to argue that Snyder really was invested in Superman. Clark got the ball rolling for his universe and he definitely had plans for him, but most of them get swept up in his true protagonist's arc later on, at least from everything we've gleaned.
    Last edited by Robanker; 03-06-2021 at 11:50 PM.

  8. #98
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Its not that the verbatim original idea was so abysmal, we understand it was an old draft rejected. But its that it gives meaningful insight on his view of these characters. He views Batman as the main protagonist that Superman just kinda sets up more than anything else. And there's evidence without the actual filmed materials themselves to back that up beyond this new info. Did his mind change on some things and was forced to change others? Surely. Do I think his mind changed that completely and he got more into Superman than it originally seemed based on the old ideas? I don't, honestly. I think its mostly blowing smoke now. That's my opinion, it can't be proven, but the window into the past ideas leads me to the opinion.
    Just recently when he was on IGN FanFest there was a section of "This or That" questions where Zack could only pick one of two named things. First question was "Batman or Superman?". He answered Superman: https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxp...49608_46218147

  9. #99
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guy_McNichts View Post
    Super-Jesus and Bat-God fighting while all the other heroes are just useless pittance in between.
    That's the only shtick they got now.Batman at least ain't that in his solo books.Superman is forever stuck in the shadow of that.His greatest hits in modern times has him as the Saviour figure , Superman just represents western civilization.Yet,he is the immigrant.Me as a guy from the east find him to be preachy,nice enough to make it feel fake,unenergetic...etc.So,I don't actually get the character as he is.He is just jesus that punches, mildly.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    Just recently when he was on IGN FanFest there was a section of "This or That" questions where Zack could only pick one of two named things. First question was "Batman or Superman?". He answered Superman: https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxp...49608_46218147
    Yeah!I don't think he's batman fan writing superman.That's Bruce timm.He's just accidentally has no idea what he tore down,in his pursuits.Some of his ideas aren't well thought out.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-05-2021 at 01:52 PM.
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  10. #100
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus Arkham View Post
    Anyway, no use in getting hanged up about this certain detail since it was never getting pursued after the poor response to BvS. But imagine an alternate universe in which this actually got made...it would’ve set the fandom world on fire.
    If WB asked him to remove the Bruce/Lois thing only after the response of BvS, he had filmed it anyway. Back in 2016, he has shoot the JL movie both the way he wanted and the way WB wanted it, to have the material in case he could get his way with the studio during post-production.
    Last edited by Last Son of Krypton; 03-05-2021 at 01:46 PM.

  11. #101
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Default Nameless WB executives who shutdown Snyder's original plans Appreciation thread

    I don't know who they are or how many, maybe they are bad people. But I'm certain they did one good thing.
    Let's appreciate it.
    Last edited by Ra-El; 03-05-2021 at 01:58 PM.

  12. #102
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Come on. lol

  13. #103
    Last Son of Shaolin GreatKungLao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    If WB asked him to remove the Bruce/Lois thing only after the response of BvS, he had filmed it anyway. Back in 2016, he has shoot the JL movie both the way he wanted and the way WB wanted it, to have the material in case he could get his way with the studio during post-production.
    Yeah, but not that thing since in that Variety article he talks about it as something that is never going to happen now.

  14. #104
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    Hilarious!!!

  15. #105
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    I think people are spending too much energy on something that is never happening and was an idea many years ago. It's like you don't think that with years later after growing and learning Zack couldn't understand that some of his previous ideas are bad. This one didn't even made it further from old storyboard. For those of you here who keeps writing that his 5 film arc wasn't going to be about Superman should watch this part from one of recent interviews:



    And if you are willing enough, give a shot to this interview too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKPL8zTaaQ
    He says that "Superman is a character who doesn't grow or change" with an air of cringe and contraint.

    And in any case these were his ideas formed during the making of BVS and Justice League and as he mentioned in a Q&A, that his original idea for JUSTICE LEAGUE was rejected from the script.

    So I think these were his original true intentions and representative of his overall views of the character and the DC Universe and how it's really Batman's world and everyone just lives in it.

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