Zach Snyder planned for Bruce and Lois to have a son in his planned JL sequel

[Robanker]

I don’t think Lois moving on is the problem (at least it shouldn’t be). It’s that she moved on to the guy who tried to kill him than decided they were best buds afterward. The only worse choices would be Lex and Doomsday itself.

Absolutely. The whole "cuck" angle is just not entirely accurate and hurts the argument because people are couching their complaint in something that is flat-out not true.

[Vordan]

Absolutely. The whole "cuck" angle is just not entirely accurate and hurts the argument because people are couching their complaint in something that is flat-out not true.

Part of the reason why is that Snyder fans derogatorily referred to Hoechlin as “Cuck Kent” as opposed to their big manly Cavill. So it’s hilarious seeing them basically twist themselves into knots to try to explain this away when called on it.

And while the word isn’t 100% accurate it does cut to the big emotional reaction most fans have: that this script basically emasculates Clark at every turn. He’s a nothing entity who accomplished zero, and is outshined at every turn by Batgod who not only is the true hero in the end that beats Darkseid, but has a kid with Lois, Superman’s great love! It’s extremely humiliating for Supes, made all the worse by how he just rolls over and accepts it.

[SiegePerilous02]

You pinpoint the moment Batmans heart is broken and Alfred having "I told you" moment.

A drink (as always) in his hand.

Part of the reason why is that Snyder fans derogatorily referred to Hoechlin as “Cuck Kent” as opposed to their big manly Cavill. So it’s hilarious seeing them basically twist themselves into knots to try to explain this away when called on it.

And while the word isn’t 100% accurate it does cut to the big emotional reaction most fans have: that this script basically emasculates Clark at every turn. He’s a nothing entity who accomplished zero, and is outshined at every turn by Batgod who not only is the true hero in the end that beats Darkseid, but has a kid with Lois, Superman’s great love! It’s extremely humiliating for Supes, made all the worse by how he just rolls over and accepts it.

It would be slightly more bearable if Clark overhears the whole "he needs me more," and said screw her and just went to hook up with Lana or Maxima or Lori or even Diana.

Since Steve is dead and they aren't likely to hook her up with Barbara (cowards), Clark would be preferable to Bruce. Who would somehow probably nab both Lois and Diana otherwise.

[Vordan]

A drink (as always) in his hand.



It would be slightly more bearable if Clark overhears the whole "he needs me more," and said screw her and just went to hook up with Lana or Maxima or Lori or even Diana.

Since Steve is dead and they aren't likely to hook her up with Barbara (cowards), Clark would be preferable to Bruce. Who would somehow probably nab both Lois and Diana otherwise.

Diana deserves better than to be a conquest in the eternal dick measuring contest between Bats and Supes. So Supes should just have Barry send him back in time and f*** Martha Wayne . We know Cavill can rock a mustache after all, he can just grow another one to get with Batman’s mom.

[SiegePerilous02]

Diana deserves better than to be a conquest in the eternal dick measuring contest between Bats and Supes. So Supes should just have Barry send him back in time and f*** Martha Wayne . We know Cavill can rock a mustache after all, he can just grow another one to get with Batman’s mom.

That's a considerably better idea.

And this Clark sucks anyway, so what was I thinking? Barbara it is. Or Artemis. Or anybody else but Clark and Bruce.

[Quinlan58]

Clearly, this is one of those universes where Superbat shipping is actually the best choice for all parties involved. The son can be a clone. Or just make male Kryptonians capable of bearing children.

[Prime]

I always gotten that Batman is low-key in love with Superman. He just repressed those emotions. But have Clark move in too and be with Maxima.

[manwhohaseverything]

I don’t think Lois moving on is the problem (at least it shouldn’t be). It’s that she moved on to the guy who tried to kill him than decided they were best buds afterward. The only worse choices would be Lex and Doomsday itself.

We have no idea that happened in that version of the story

[Nelliebly]

Absolutely. The whole "cuck" angle is just not entirely accurate and hurts the argument because people are couching their complaint in something that is flat-out not true.

Frankly, the “cuck” piece of this is like the least offensive thing about this but it’s not shocking it’s what so many people are latching on to here since asking people to care about Lois’s dignity not in relation to how it makes Clark look is apparently too much to ask of most people.

Forget Clark for a second. What about HER?

It’s not just that she wouldn’t move on with the person who tried to kill the love of her life to the degree that, as was pointed out earlier in the thread, she put her body between them just as he was about to deliver the killing blow....it’s that this turns her into an object to acquire. A conquest for men. It takes her heroic actions in BvS to clear Clark’s name and makes it about a pissing contest between two men.

I’ve defended Snyder in the past for various reasons but this entire plot concept is indefensible. It’s deeply misogynistic and humiliating to her. It treats her like a prize to be passed around and like a uterus for hire. This is obviously extremely unfair to Superman, but more than anything, it’s deeply degrading and unfair to Lois. She is the real victim here.

[manwhohaseverything]

The batmobile lost a wheel.darkseid got away.Jingle bells!Snyder smells! superman is a Cuck!
YO! HO!HO!

[Robanker]

Diana deserves better than to be a conquest in the eternal dick measuring contest between Bats and Supes. So Supes should just have Barry send him back in time and f*** Martha Wayne . We know Cavill can rock a mustache after all, he can just grow another one to get with Batman’s mom.

Oh, absolutely. I'm just saying if people walk into the argument saying Snyder cucked him, well you've already lost the argument.

Frankly, the “cuck” piece of this is like the least offensive thing about this but it’s not shocking it’s what so many people are latching on to here since asking people to care about Lois’s dignity not in relation to how it makes Clark look is apparently too much to ask of most people.

Forget Clark for a second. What about HER?

It’s not just that she wouldn’t move on with the person who tried to kill the love of her life to the degree that, as was pointed out earlier in the thread, she put her body between them just as he was about to deliver the killing blow....it’s that this turns her into an object to acquire. A conquest for men. It takes her heroic actions in BvS to clear Clark’s name and makes it about a pissing contest between two men.

I’ve defended Snyder in the past for various reasons but this entire plot concept is indefensible. It’s deeply misogynistic and humiliating to her. It treats her like a prize to be passed around and like a uterus for hire. This is obviously extremely unfair to Superman, but more than anything, it’s deeply degrading and unfair to Lois. She is the real victim here.

Yup. This is primarily why I hate it. Absolutely asinine.

After Man of Steel, Lois Lane pretty much became two-dimensional. Kind of sucks. I totally understand her sitting out on Justice League, but if this was the way they get her into the plot, I'd rather she just got written out entirely.

[Agent Z]

Frankly, the “cuck” piece of this is like the least offensive thing about this but it’s not shocking it’s what so many people are latching on to here since asking people to care about Lois’s dignity not in relation to how it makes Clark look is apparently too much to ask of most people.

Forget Clark for a second. What about HER?

It’s not just that she wouldn’t move on with the person who tried to kill the love of her life to the degree that, as was pointed out earlier in the thread, she put her body between them just as he was about to deliver the killing blow....it’s that this turns her into an object to acquire. A conquest for men. It takes her heroic actions in BvS to clear Clark’s name and makes it about a pissing contest between two men.

I’ve defended Snyder in the past for various reasons but this entire plot concept is indefensible. It’s deeply misogynistic and humiliating to her. It treats her like a prize to be passed around and like a uterus for hire. This is obviously extremely unfair to Superman, but more than anything, it’s deeply degrading and unfair to Lois. She is the real victim here.

Yeah, I've said before that Superman fans can be his absolute worst defenders and a big reason why is how often their expectations of him are couched in some deeply regressive ideas about masculinity. I think I first realized this when I saw how unempathetic people were towards YJ Superman for his discomfort towards the circumstances of Superboy's creation and I recall people making fun of post crisis Superman for that time he underwent therapy. Then there is often how complaints about post crisis, Smallville or DCEU Superman boil down to him being more emotionally vulnerable than what people would expect.

This idea of Snyder's is bad but for a huge chunk of Superman fans, it's more due to "Batman stole his woman".

[Robanker]

Yeah, I've said before that Superman fans can be his absolute worst defenders and a big reason why is how often their expectations of him are couched in some deeply regressive ideas about masculinity. I think I first realized this when I saw how unempathetic people were towards YJ Superman for his discomfort towards the circumstances of Superboy's creation and I recall people making fun of post crisis Superman for that time he underwent therapy. Then there is often how complaints about post crisis, Smallville or DCEU Superman boil down to him being more emotionally vulnerable than what people would expect.

This idea of Snyder's is bad but for a huge chunk of Superman fans, it's more due to "Batman stole his woman".

I still don't see why this gets thrown at Clark. It's a complete violation of his being. His genetic material was stolen from him and life was created using it without his consent. It's fucking disgusting. Would it be magnanimous of him to just accept Conner right away? Sure, but you can't fault him for having a very human reaction to finding out that he was essentially violated. And yet, here we are.

I admit, I'm partly mad that, yes, Batman gets Clark's girl but it's also that Batman robs Lois of her character and any reasons she would naturally resist that development fall by the wayside (and don't fucking tell me "but we didn't see how they execute it," Lois and this Batman are twelve bridges too far).

Both she and Clark are mangled so as to serve Bruce: Lois gets turned into the soil for Bruce's seed from which we get a proper Superman and a new Batman. Fucking awful for everyone involved including Bruce.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah, I've said before that Superman fans can be his absolute worst defenders

whose defenders?snyders?. There is only me.@greatkunglao was here as well.This thread is basically toxic as **** without it needing a man.It was unbalanced and really just people going "snyder smells!" .I been accused of toxic masculity.I don't care.But,the reason i defended snyder is not because "I am a man's man"(i have no problem in being that).It's only cause,We don't know the details.Last time i jumped the gun(it happens time to time).I was pretty much wrong.I apologised.As if two people falling in love with same gal is not a troupe.As if that kinda drama isn't used in superman itself and has not what superman has turned into.Snyder atleast reversed the "Fantasy".It's usally two women fighting over the trophy that is superman.Lana and lois.
As for lois's character assasination.There is zilch on what we know about how bvs,jl..etc.Heck! this draft could have been made when snyder's bvs wasn't exactly that.You guys do know bvs became a thing much later.It was at first just man of steel 2 with bruce wayne's mansion and kryptonite.

[Nelliebly]

Yeah, I've said before that Superman fans can be his absolute worst defenders and a big reason why is how often their expectations of him are couched in some deeply regressive ideas about masculinity. I think I first realized this when I saw how unempathetic people were towards YJ Superman for his discomfort towards the circumstances of Superboy's creation and I recall people making fun of post crisis Superman for that time he underwent therapy. Then there is often how complaints about post crisis, Smallville or DCEU Superman boil down to him being more emotionally vulnerable than what people would expect.

This idea of Snyder's is bad but for a huge chunk of Superman fans, it's more due to "Batman stole his woman".

Exactly.

Pages and pages here and barely anyone even cared about how horrible it was to Lois outside of how it made Clark look.

Instead the convo becomes about who he can hook up with to “get back at them.”

The misogyny is so depressing sometimes. With rare exceptions, No one ever cares about how she’s treated unless it’s really about some backwards masculinity pissing contest. God forbid someone is asked to just empathize with Lois and how unfair it is to her.

It’s what I dread most about Superman and Lois too. The minute Lois says or does one thing out of step people will be joking her own husband should cheat on her. That’s how this fandom rolls.