Zach Snyder planned for Bruce and Lois to have a son in his planned JL sequel

[Agent Z]

How did Snyder's Superman make the world worst?

[DochaDocha]

You know, this does give new meaning to "Lois is the key"...

[Vordan]

Why does everyone always think this is about hating a character. Joe Quesada is a Spider-Man fan and he was the main driving force behind One More Day, arguably the worst Spider-Man story of the 21st Century. Bryan Singer is a Superman fan and he made Superman Returns.

Again, I don't like this idea either but it was not going to go through and using this to judge Snyder's feelings about Superman himself is completely off base.

The shilling of Batman is the big reason. As Superman fans we’ve been burnt pretty badly by people who handle him in outside media, yet who are on record as liking Batman more. “Hate” might be too strong a word, but I just don’t believe Snyder understands the character or has any real affection for him. Again: Superman is barely a character here. It’s one thing to put a character you love through hell in order to build them back up, but Snyder put Superman through hell... so Batman could be the protagonist? And get Lois pregnant? I can’t buy that any fan of Superman would do that.

How did Snyder's Superman make the world worst?

1. Brought the Kryptonians to Earth which they never would come otherwise, making him indirectly responsible for all the deaths and destruction
2. Said death and destruction drives Bruce and Lex insane causing the events of BvS
3. His death triggers worldwide fear and despair causing the Mother Boxes to activate and Steppenwolf to come back (which means he was a more powerful symbol of fear than he ever was of hope)
4. Gets corrupted by Darkseid, the only member of the JL so weak willed as to fall to Anti-Life, and helps Darkseid take over
He completely fails to have any meaningful positive impact, and in the end it’s Batman who saves the day, inspires a legacy via a son with Lois, and creates a new Age of Heroes. If Superman had died on his way to Earth none of the above would’ve happened and the world would be better off for it.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

How did Snyder's Superman make the world worst?

Clark accidentally lead Zod to earth. Zod lead to Luthor, Luthor lead to Steppenwolf, Steppenwolf leads to Darkseid. Not really his fault by any fair measure, but yeah if the baby ship flew into a red sun the earth would have been better off.

[SiegePerilous02]

I'd be perfectly willing to cut Clark some slack for the Kryptonian invasion because he had no way of knowing that would happen and it was completely by accident. It might also have happened sooner or later anyway, and we have to give Zod and his cronies a lot of agency there for choosing to be tyrants

But that PLUS catching the attention of Apokolips and becoming Darkseid's mind controlled slave? He's a passive, unwitting cosmic horror from beyond the stars who brings our doom lol.

"They will join you in the sun." **** off Jor-El.

[manwhohaseverything]

I would like to counter that,Bruce wouldn't even be thinking of anything good had Clark decided to not sacrifice himself with doomsday.Also,Bruce was already spiralling due to robins death. Lex was already a psychopath from the start.These guys just got an anchor for hatred is all.Zod would have found earth.Clark or no clark.he was looking for old colonial outposts.Earth was one.

[Sacred Knight]

"They will join you in the sun." **** off Jor-El.

Stands out as one of the few good things about this incarnation...a line taken from a much, much, much superior Superman writer and that ended up having absolutely nothing to do with the film(s), lol.

Speaking of other writers, had this come to pass I wouldn't have given Waid any **** for throwing a ruckus in a theater that time, that's for certain.

[Vordan]

I'd be perfectly willing to cut Clark some slack for the Kryptonian invasion because he had no way of knowing that would happen and it was completely by accident. It might also have happened sooner or later anyway, and we have to give Zod and his cronies a lot of agency there for choosing to be tyrants

But that PLUS catching the attention of Apokolips and becoming Darkseid's mind controlled slave? He's a passive, unwitting cosmic horror from beyond the stars who brings our doom lol.

"They will join you in the sun." **** off Jor-El.

It’s almost amusing how Snyder goes out of his way to prove Jor-El, the guy who basically wants Clark to be the classic Superman, wrong in every single way. Every single lesson Jor tried to teach Kal gets proven wrong. Everyone has the capacity for good? Nah some people are bastards and you gotta kill them before they kill you. Either you die or I do, that’s the way the Snyderverse works.

And that specific line is completely ruined both by what Snyder did and what we now know he wanted to do. Superman fails completely to not just lead others into the sun, but to even get into the sun himself. If I thought Snyder was smart I’d almost be impressed by the deconstruction of a man who wants to be a hero but is so bad at it. In the end all Kal can do is raise his wife’s son to live up to his biological father’s legacy and join Bruce in the shadows. It’s almost poetic. But Snyder is not self-aware or smart and I’m confident he wouldn’t understand why people would hate this.

[Sacred Knight]

If you seek his monument....

Its some new Batman, the son of the first and the the woman he loved. Derp.

I mean I can laugh about it a little bit because it didn't happen, but gawddamn.

[Vordan]

I would like to counter that,Bruce wouldn't even be thinking of anything good had Clark decided to not sacrifice himself with doomsday.Also,Bruce was already spiralling due to robins death. Lex was already a psychopath from the start.These guys just got an anchor for hatred is all.Zod would have found earth.Clark or no clark.he was looking for old colonial outposts.Earth was one.

And what change did Superman inspire in Batman exactly? Batman is still killing aliens with guns, it’s just that this time he’s killing the “right” aliens so we’re supposed to cheer him on. But nothing about Batman’s actual methods has changed at all. He’s still the same brutalizing monster who is a scumbag at heart given he moves in on Lois before Clark’s corpse is even cold.

This is the core failure of Snyder’s Superman: we’re told how “inspirational” he is, with plenty of Jesus imagery to make sure we get the message, but when it comes to actual concrete positive impact? Superman has done more bad than good.

[manwhohaseverything]

And what change did Superman inspire in Batman exactly? Batman is still killing aliens with guns, it’s just that this time he’s killing the “right” aliens so we’re supposed to cheer him on. But nothing about Batman’s actual methods has changed at all. He’s still the same brutalizing monster who is a scumbag at heart given he moves in on Lois before Clark’s corpse is even cold.

This is the core failure of Snyder’s Superman: we’re told how “inspirational” he is, with plenty of Jesus imagery to make sure we get the message, but when it comes to actual concrete positive impact? Superman has done more bad than good.

I have no interest in dogmatic discussions about no kill rules.What changed?he started using violence only as a defence.Not as preemptive offence.

On the flip side,these movies where trying to prove superman ain't Jesus and just a man,from the start in my view.Using the imagery to prove otherwise.I have provided instances before like real funeral itself being like an ordinary man's while people get jesus superman in the city.There is a straight up line in the movie to be blunt.I don't see anything inspirational in Christ himself.So,imagery doesn't evoke any feelings to be told "superman is inspirational".

all star superman is jesus.Father figure for humanity.He's the ideal .Christian theology unlike Jewish one takes Christ as the ideal.Jews don't do that.Moses ain't perfect nor is he god.He is prophet.

[kalai]

How did Snyder's Superman make the world worst?

Technically, most of DCEU's problem comes from Superman.

MoS, Superman staring the scout ship triggered Zod to come to Earth for colonization.

BvS, Doomsday was created from said scout ship and a dead Zod killed by Superman.

JL, in the Snyder Cut, Superman's dying cry at Doomsday is the bell, that triggered Darkseid to initiate the invasion once again.
The whole, the bell has been rung, god is dead, is literally Superman's dying cry reaching across the universe.
Snyder explained this a few months ago at a BvS watching event, and you can see the sound wave in the Snyder Cut trailer.

[kalai]

I have no interest in dogmatic discussions about no kill rules.What changed?he started using violence only as a defence.Not as preemptive offence.

On the flip side,these movies where trying to prove superman ain't Jesus and just a man,from the start in my view.Using the imagery to prove otherwise.I have provided instances before like real funeral itself being like an ordinary man's while people get jesus superman in the city.There is a straight up line in the movie to be blunt.I don't see anything inspirational in Christ himself.So,imagery doesn't evoke any feelings to be told "superman is inspirational".

all star superman is jesus.Father figure for humanity.He's the ideal .Christian theology unlike Jewish one takes Christ as the ideal.Jews don't do that.Moses ain't perfect nor is he god.He is prophet.

Well, in the case of the original plan,
clearly Superman is Joseph, Lois is Maria,
and Batgod is the one true God, the son of Batgod is Jesus.

[manwhohaseverything]

Well, in the case of the original plan,
clearly Superman is Joseph, Lois is Maria,
and Batgod is the one true God, the son of Batgod is Jesus.

welp!there goes nietzschean shtick.

[Vordan]

Edit: Actually I don’t care. No point rehashing old arguments at this point