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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Maybe that was the main reason why Snyder's pitch wasn't accepted, because Bruce Wayne dies.
    Bingo!

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  2. #77
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Snyder makes Timm looking an amateur.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    The real takeaway is we now, uh, know what the bottom of this meant.

    The child on the shirt was always looking suspicious to me, I even pointed it out over the DC board some weeks ago:

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Still the way he was represented in the T-Shirt, a child forming from Wayne's blood/sperm, make the child look Bruce's. lol
    There were 2 lines in BvS foreshadowing the Bruce/Lois thing but who the hell could've even considered it, it feel out of left field anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Maybe that was the main reason why Snyder's pitch wasn't accepted, because Bruce Wayne dies.
    AFAIK, the pitch was accepted or we wouldn't have got the Knightmare tease in BvS. Also, Affleck didn't sign to play BM for a decade, he was on board with Snyder's plan because it was finite (the aborted JL3 was meant to be released in 2020).

  3. #78
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    These are terrible ideas...but the fact of the matter is that this was never really realistically going to actually make it to screen. I mean, even before BvS was released the Studio already had rejected the idea of Bruce unrequitedly falling in love with Lois. There was no way that Bruce impregnating Lois and Clark raising the kid with Lois eventually would ever make it to film. This story outline was basically spitballing more or less.

    That being said....wow. I've defended MOS and Ultimate cut BvS,but ...this would have been terrible. Still curious about the Snyder cut...but I'm glad someone at WB was willing to tell Snyder "No".
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  4. #79
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I don't get this guy's appeal at all. I really don't. I read an article yesterday about "The Snyder Cut" and how toxic his fanbase is and one of the things they posted was an image by his fans comparing the Snyder cut to the Whedon cut side by side. And I couldn't even tell what was going on in the Snyder cut it was so dark. Like, physically dark. And I kept thinking "THIS is what you want when you go see a movie? For it to be so dark you can't even see what's going on?" Even taking the tone out of the equation, what about this am I supposed to find appealing? And this was their idea of making an argument. Whatever his "vision" is that they want to see completed, I don't get it. I didn't care for either MOS or BVS. And after reading this, I'm becoming more of a fan of studio control. Maybe they should just hand everything over to the TV people sine they seem to at least understand how Superman is supposed to work. They literally can't do any worse than this.
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  5. #80
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    A solid part of my job is writing and I'll often just start throwing whatever nonsense I need to on a page to get the ball rolling. But I don't then screenshot that and have a minion share it. That's the level of idea's I see in this treatment.

    But yeah, the Lois/Bruce stuff never got beyond this stage. That came out a week or so ago. WB said no to that right away. Once whatever the script was that was written, the Lois being killed part was killed in that stage after BvS tanked, so none of this setup should even exist in the SnyderCut. So this is several steps removed from anything that was ever going to see the light of day.

    It's still horrendous, and obviously Snyder thinks that it's genius because he leaked it to someone to share. Which is why I also have to laugh at all of this.
    Last edited by Yoda; 03-05-2021 at 10:41 AM.

  6. #81

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    No one ever tell me that Zack Snyder understands Superman. He doesn't.

    He was going to destroy the most iconic couple in comics for more bat angst.

  7. #82
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    You know that scene in Die Hard when McClane confronts Guber and incredulously notes, "So this was all about money the whole time" and that Gruber only posed as a terrorist supervillain with grand ideas to distract the cops.

    Seeing this treatment makes me feel this way. After all this blather about Snyder's grand vision of Superman, his objectivist-focused ideas and themes, the end result is, "I was a Batman fanboy the whole time".

    It's just typical.

    And I have to say that Snyder's actions feel especially dubious because Chris Nolan chose him to direct Superman and Nolan wasn't keen on Batman being rebooted so quickly after just recently concluding his own Dark Knight Trilogy:
    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...-nolans-859809

    So Snyder brought Batman into a Superman franchise and was planning to make Batman and not Superman the overall series protagonist, which not only undermined Superman but also went against Nolan's preferences and sentiments.

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    You know that scene in Die Hard when McClane confronts Guber and incredulously notes, "So this was all about money the whole time" and that Gruber only posed as a terrorist supervillain with grand ideas to distract the cops.

    Seeing this treatment makes me feel this way. After all this blather about Snyder's grand vision of Superman, his objectivist-focused ideas and themes, the end result is, "I was a Batman fanboy the whole time".

    It's just typical.

    And I have to say that Snyder's actions feel especially dubious because Chris Nolan chose him to direct Superman and Nolan wasn't keen on Batman being rebooted so quickly after just recently concluding his own Dark Knight Trilogy:
    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...-nolans-859809

    So Snyder brought Batman into a Superman franchise and was planning to make Batman and not Superman the overall series protagonist, which not only undermined Superman but also went against Nolan's preferences and sentiments.
    It sounds like the whole DCEU was a train wreck from the start. MOS came out only a year after the last Nolan movie. It even played the trailers for it in front of the movie. I remember, I saw them. Warners wanted so badly to compete with Marvel that they just slapdashed the whole thing together at the last minute.
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  9. #84
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    This gives me some retroactive appreciation for Timm. His Bat fanboyism where he had characters like Wonder Woman and Batgirl falling head over heals for him was annoying, no doubt, but even he had Lois drop her crush on Bruce pretty much the moment she found out he was Batman.
    Last edited by Gaius; 03-05-2021 at 11:08 AM.

  10. #85
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I want to believe Snyder tried to do a Superman-centric DCEU in relatively good faith, but once WB hit the "Keep calm, call Batman" button, Snyder pivoted hard and had no qualms ditching Supes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    This gives me some retroactive appreciation for Timm. His Bat fanboyism where he had characters like Wonder Woman and Zatanna falling head over heals for him was annoying, no doubt, but even he had Lois drop her crush on Bruce pretty much the moment she found out he was Batman.
    Heh, I think "crush" understates how deep they tried to make their relationship. She considered transferring to Gotham, and when Bruce looked back at his most meaningful relationships of his past, Lois was one of them. Also, Lois and Bruce's relationship on the show was quite possibly more intimate than her relationship with Superman was at any point in the DCAU. It's still better than Snyder's vision, but it's not a good look.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 03-05-2021 at 11:09 AM.

  11. #86
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    This gives me some retroactive appreciation for Timm. His Bat fanboyism where he had characters like Wonder Woman and Zatanna falling head over heals for him was annoying, no doubt, but even he had Lois drop her crush on Bruce pretty much the moment she found out he was Batman.
    Heh, I think "crush" understates how deep they tried to make their relationship. She considered transferring to Gotham, and when Bruce looked back at his most meaningful relationships of his past, Lois was one of them. Also, Lois and Bruce's relationship on the show was quite possibly more intimate than her relationship with Superman was at any point in the DCAU. It's still better than Snyder's vision, but it's not a good look.
    Yeah, it was bad. While I quit following JLU before the end, the DCAU was worse than this for me, actually, because of the Barbara thing. As much I hated the Bruce/Lois thing and was annoyed by the Zatanna and Diana dynamic, I still do think Bruce impregnating Barbara is worse than Bruce impregnating Lois. I mean, Dick was his child and still alive. And, of course, it was more heroines, too.

  12. #87
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    This does make the Snyder Cut so amusingly ironic. All this hype for Superman and ZOMG the black suit and this badass role...and he wasn't going to have a badass role. Again fully understand this full layout wouldn't have seen fruition even if the saga hadn't have been canceled. But it shows the mindset. I have zero doubt Batman being the one to defeat Darkseid and ultimately the main protagonist Iron Man style and all that still would have remained. Superman's death and return still would have been just a superficial hype grab off the original comic story (two and a half decades too late to stand on its own without proper build-up), with little positive impact in the films (indeed mostly negative in the scheme of things), and Batman's sacrifice being the one to save the world.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 03-05-2021 at 11:48 AM.
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  13. #88
    Astonishing Member Triple J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    A solid part of my job is writing and I'll often just start throwing whatever nonsense I need to on a page to get the ball rolling. But I don't then screenshot that and have a minion share it. That's the level of idea's I see in this treatment.

    But yeah, the Lois/Bruce stuff never got beyond this stage. That came out a week or so ago. WB said no to that right away. Once whatever the script was that was written, the Lois being killed part was killed in that stage after BvS tanked, so none of this setup should even exist in the SnyderCut. So this is several steps removed from anything that was ever going to see the light of day.

    It's still horrendous, and obviously Snyder thinks that it's genius because he leaked it to someone to share. Which is why I also have to laugh at all of this.
    That is what this is (initial storyboards). Why do you think that he made someone share this?

    From what I have heard, the exhibit in Dallas (where this is from) was closed off and the dude got in somehow (WB took down his screenshots on Twitter, for what it's worth). I am not sure why you are suggesting Snyder leaked all this purposefully lol.
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  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    It sounds like the whole DCEU was a train wreck from the start.
    "An ending fitting for the start
    You twist and tore our love apart
    Your light fingers threw the dark
    Shattered the lamp and into darkness it cast us"



    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    This gives me some retroactive appreciation for Timm. His Bat fanboyism where he had characters like Wonder Woman and Batgirl falling head over heals for him was annoying, no doubt, but even he had Lois drop her crush on Bruce pretty much the moment she found out he was Batman.
    In World's Finest, Superman/Clark and Lois weren't even dating at the time. And they made Lois a bit of a Silver Age "likes Superman but hates Clark" dynamic. And the episode makes it clear that Lois is dating Bruce partly to get over Superman who she feels is out of her league to have a real intimate relationship with (which she tells Bruce at the start). Silver Age Lois in the '50s did date Batman in one comic to make Superman jealous if I'm not mistaken.

    In Snyder's version, he would have had Lois get into a relationship with Batman after committing herself fully to Superman/Clark, being established as soulmates with him, and personally intervening to stop Batman from murdering her beloved. It would have been beyond asinine for Lois to fall for Batman after literally stopping him at the last moment from killing Superman. The problem with Snyder is that he thinks dramatic values is stuff in a blender and not a matter of building stuff up.

    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I want to believe Snyder tried to do a Superman-centric DCEU in relatively good faith, but once WB hit the "Keep calm, call Batman" button, Snyder pivoted hard and had no qualms ditching Supes.
    Remember even in Man of Steel at the end, there was a WayneTech satellite and Snyder planted the seed of Batman being in that world. So yeah, I think he wanted to use Superman to tell Batman stories the whole time.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Yeah, it was bad. While I quit following JLU before the end, the DCAU was worse than this for me, actually, because of the Barbara thing. As much I hated the Bruce/Lois thing and was annoyed by the Zatanna and Diana dynamic, I still do think Bruce impregnating Barbara is worse than Bruce impregnating Lois. I mean, Dick was his child and still alive. And, of course, it was more heroines, too.
    Well, Barb's pregnancy isn't on Bruce Timm. That's on whoever wrote the follow-up companion comic years after Batman Beyond was wrapped and was pulled from TV. But I dunno, maybe that was Timm's intent for Barbara. Generally, I tend to treat DCAU cartoons and the companion comics that came out a decade+ later as two completely separate entities, with the cartoon's being quite superior in quality.

    I will give the DCAU this much credit: Bruce/Barbara was likely portrayed on the show to be nothing less than dysfunctional. Like, Batman and Wonder Woman was shallowly forced together because every woman is drawn to Batman, so we as the audience were supposed to think it was cute, but Bruce/Barbara was something nobody was supposed to be comfortable with. Don't get me wrong, I didn't like it and wish it didn't happen, but at least it seemed the writers were aware that it feels wrong, and so the characters treated it as some sort of "What were we thinking?" moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Remember even in Man of Steel at the end, there was a WayneTech satellite and Snyder planted the seed of Batman being in that world. So yeah, I think he wanted to use Superman to tell Batman stories the whole time.
    I thought that was just supposed to be an Easter Egg, but now I'm less sure about that.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 03-05-2021 at 12:10 PM.

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