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  1. #106
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    Just recently when he was on IGN FanFest there was a section of "This or That" questions where Zack could only pick one of two named things. First question was "Batman or Superman?". He answered Superman: https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxp...49608_46218147
    Well its like I said though, I just can't believe it. I feel materials filmed and ideas formerly had formed another general picture. Like I've made clear though, I cannot prove this. I can't prove what's truly in his head. So I won't try and convince anyone who feels they can take his word for this, and that's not at all backhanded. I just can't anymore.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 03-05-2021 at 02:04 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  2. #107
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    If Superman doesn't grow or change, arguably neither do Batman or Wonder Woman. All three are kind of static icons.

    I don't necessarily think they have to stay that way or that they can't go through change, but it doesn't just apply to Superman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Snyder is deliberate. I don't like his decisions and think a lot of them are vapid, but he does have reasons for doing what he does. He wanted to create a new Batman after Bruce's sacrifice and he figured he could tie Clark's journey in there as an accessory to Batman's story. The same with Lois. They're all pawns to serve Bruce's narrative and that involves killing Clark and positioning Lois and Bruce to hook up in the interim. Everything is constructed to serve the Bat god..
    also convenient that Dick Grayson, the most logical heir to become a successor Batman, is dead. Lois's womb provides a replacement!

  3. #108
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatKungLao View Post
    I think people are spending too much energy on something that is never happening and was an idea many years ago. It's like you don't think that with years later after growing and learning Zack couldn't understand that some of his previous ideas are bad.
    Are you honest to god saying the movies he would have made can't be judged by his officially stated plans for those movies

    Plans that he just released! For people to see! And, presumably he intended, like! Because this is what they were before other people, not him, decided against them!

    Yes, of course it is technically possible he could have changed his mind about some things and attendantly all his Superman plans, but he had already made a Superman movie when he did this so it's not as if he was going in with a paucity of opinions positive or negative on the character. And with those in mind, when making his macro-scale design for this world, before other people had their say, this is what he wanted to do. Even if that design didn't hold - in LARGE part due to factors outside his control - the notion that that is some kind of trivial non-factor regarding reasonable interpretations of the story and his takes on the characters involved is preposterous.
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  4. #109
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    He says that "Superman is a character who doesn't grow or change" with an air of cringe and contraint.
    .
    The only time superman grew was in the 40s/50s and 70s/80s.he changed from a pulp action character to moral quandary having immigrant to jesus/farmboy.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-05-2021 at 02:10 PM.
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  5. #110
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Are you honest to god saying the movies he would have made can't be judged by his officially stated plans for those movies

    Plans that he just released! For people to see! And, presumably he intended, like! Because this is what they were before other people, not him, decided against them!

    Yes, of course it is technically possible he could have changed his mind about some things and attendantly all his Superman plans, but he had already made a Superman movie when he did this so it's not as if he was going in with a paucity of opinions positive or negative on the character. And with those in mind, when making his macro-scale design for this world, before other people had their say, this is what he wanted to do. Even if that design didn't hold - in LARGE part due to factors outside his control - the notion that that is some kind of trivial non-factor regarding reasonable interpretations of the story and his takes on the characters involved is preposterous.
    Yep. If Snyder had the complete creative freedom his fans believe WB stole from him, this is what he would make. Anything he does with Superman, after the heroic executives stoped him, it's a plan B, or scraps from the whole he have designed.
    Last edited by Ra-El; 03-05-2021 at 02:17 PM.

  6. #111
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    It may have been confirmed somewhere in these, but would the original plan for JL (what became the Snyder Cut) involve the Knightmare sequence?

    Because we're getting that in the Snyder Cut complete with Cult Leader Jared Leto being brought back as the Joker, so who knows what from this original nightmare was salvaged into what we're getting in a couple weeks.

  7. #112
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    The only time superman grew was in the 40s/50s and 70s/80s.he changed from a pulp action character to having moral quandary having immigrant to jesus/farmboy.
    Jesse Custer grew, Edward Elric grew, Yorick Brown grew, Jack Knight grew and Mark Grayson also grew, but any mainstream Marvel and DC superhero character don't.

    They only grow on Elseworld and What If's, but in the main universes they are trapped on a endless cycle that always come back to the status quo. Sometimes the cycle takes a little longer to reset itself, but eventually it happens.

  8. #113
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    It may have been confirmed somewhere in these, but would the original plan for JL (what became the Snyder Cut) involve the Knightmare sequence?

    Because we're getting that in the Snyder Cut complete with Cult Leader Jared Leto being brought back as the Joker, so who knows what from this original nightmare was salvaged into what we're getting in a couple weeks.
    There'll be visions of that future and the epilogue (with Cult Leader Jared Leto) is set in the Knightmare world, Bruce will also address Flash's warn from BvS (Lois is the Key!) realizing it wasn't referring to SM being out of himself after resurrecting till Lois pop up but it was "something darker coming".

    The epilogue is the only new addition to the cut. From the little we saw, it uses elements from the Knightmare stuff from the JL3 outline.
    Last edited by Last Son of Krypton; 03-05-2021 at 02:30 PM.

  9. #114
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    All I have to say is this, Lois and Bruce having a relationship, not my thing. I know they've dated in some comics and the animated series but I can ignore it and move on but ZS's version of Lois and Bruce hooking up is probably the grossest thing I have read in a long, considering the man was hell bent on murdering the love of her life and she literally put herself between them as he was about to deliver the final blow. That's nasty to the highest degree.

    Over the years, my thoughts on ZS and his vision barely registered an emotion from me, I only cared about his movies as far as trying to support Henry but learning of this aborted plan for this saga has really turned up my ire, we cannot see the back side of this vision soon enough. It always bugged me how Henry only had very few line in the theatrical BvS release, among other shortfalls in what was meant to be his sequel. He says he likes/prefers Superman, but I should not have to watch an extended cut to get a decent showing for Superman. There's a glaring disconnect between his words and what he chooses to put onscreen whether it makes the final cut or not. His plans show intent and it's taken third parties to basically pull him back from the ledge. What will the new SnyderCut be like, I shudder to think, I have lost all hope at this stage.

  10. #115
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Jesse Custer grew, Edward Elric grew, Yorick Brown grew, Jack Knight grew and Mark Grayson also grew, but any mainstream Marvel and DC superhero character don't.

    They only grow on Elseworld and What If's, but in the main universes they are trapped on a endless cycle that always come back to the status quo. Sometimes the cycle takes a little longer to reset itself, but eventually it happens.
    I disagree.That might be true for other characters.But,I have felt the changes when I have read these books of different eras.Some of them are things that directly contradict what was.Granted the times in which the books and authors of the books have to be taken accounted for while making judgement.So,I used the broad principals the characters upheld and characterizations.batman on the other hand has always changed back to noir character,at the end of the day.(when he isn't part of DCU and being batgod).I would say batman is the one that doesn't change.i believe,even Frank miller did revert batman to more his goldenage roots from the goofyness.Granted in a more Nietzschean way and with a grittier tone.
    Granted these changes in superman weren't sudden many a times.But,there were big markers to major changes.like Donner movie,arrival of comics code..etc
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-05-2021 at 02:35 PM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  11. #116
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I want to believe Snyder tried to do a Superman-centric DCEU in relatively good faith, but once WB hit the "Keep calm, call Batman" button, Snyder pivoted hard and had no qualms ditching Supes.



    Heh, I think "crush" understates how deep they tried to make their relationship. She considered transferring to Gotham, and when Bruce looked back at his most meaningful relationships of his past, Lois was one of them. Also, Lois and Bruce's relationship on the show was quite possibly more intimate than her relationship with Superman was at any point in the DCAU. It's still better than Snyder's vision, but it's not a good look.
    Fair enough, I avoided the Batman appearances of S:TAS in my re-watch a few years ago so maybe my memory's faulty.

  12. #117
    Astonishing Member Triple J's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Are you honest to god saying the movies he would have made can't be judged by his officially stated plans for those movies

    Plans that he just released! For people to see! And, presumably he intended, like! Because this is what they were before other people, not him, decided against them!

    Yes, of course it is technically possible he could have changed his mind about some things and attendantly all his Superman plans, but he had already made a Superman movie when he did this so it's not as if he was going in with a paucity of opinions positive or negative on the character. And with those in mind, when making his macro-scale design for this world, before other people had their say, this is what he wanted to do. Even if that design didn't hold - in LARGE part due to factors outside his control - the notion that that is some kind of trivial non-factor regarding reasonable interpretations of the story and his takes on the characters involved is preposterous.
    ????

    Not officially stated though. Initial storyboards. Not released by Snyder (unless you have evidence to prove otherwise, best not to assume intent no?).

    These were initial drafts; shot by someone who went into a exhibit in Dallas (From what I have heard, the exhibit was closed off for public; and WB did immediately take it down from Twitter). Only reason why we have all this now is because people, of course, took it and reposted on DCEU leaks).
    DC Extended Universe Thread (DCEU)

    That's how it starts. The fever. The rage. The feeling of powerlessness. That turns good men....Cruel - Alfred.

    This may be the only thing that I do that matters - Bruce.

    Stay down, if I wanted it, you would be dead already - Clark.

  13. #118
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Well its like I said though, I just can't believe it. I feel materials filmed and ideas formerly had formed another general picture. Like I've made clear though, I cannot prove this. I can't prove what's truly in his head. So I won't try and convince anyone who feels they can take his word for this, and that's not at all backhanded. I just can't anymore.
    It's akin to me saying "I prefer Marvel to DC, pay no mind to my 5,000 posts in the DC boards and like 7 in the Marvel ones." You can't prove what's in my head, but the body of work does paint a different picture.
    Last edited by Robanker; 03-06-2021 at 11:48 PM.

  14. #119
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    It's akin to me saying "I prefer DC to Marvel, pay no mind to my 5,000 posts in the DC boards and like 7 in the Marvel ones." You can't prove what's in my head, but the body of work does paint a different picture.
    How do you rationalise man of steel movie, the great deal of research and the lengths the guy went through,if he didn't like superman or at least is not interested in him?All the character beats from different eras speak for themselves.And you need to realise that even Bruce timm did his research on superman(albeit not in depth like Morrison or waid or moore).He just wasn't interested in modern and mainstream one.He preferred to put it blandly on screen and mock it.He did fine with other takes
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-05-2021 at 03:03 PM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  15. #120
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    How do you rationalise man of steel movie, the great deal of research and the lengths the guy went through,if he didn't like superman or at least is not interested in him?All the character beats from different eras speak for themselves.And you need to realise that even Bruce timm did his research on superman(albeit not in depth like Morrison or waid or moore).He just wasn't interested in modern and mainstream one.He preferred to put it blandly on screen and mock it.He did fine with other takes
    Means to an end? A high profile job adjacent to something he'd rather be doing?

    As others say, we can't prove what was in his head or heart, but the DCEU isn't exactly damning proof that he had a great vision for Superman independent of other DC heroes.
    Last edited by DochaDocha; 03-05-2021 at 03:16 PM.

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