Zach Snyder planned for Bruce and Lois to have a son in his planned JL sequel

[JAK]

the characters that sell the most are not married. For Clark to worry about Lois is fine, but for him to worry only about Lois is wrong. Lois dies and Superman becomes a monster is not something from 30 years ago, but it is from the little that Lois has contributed in recent years. As I said, the translator worked badly, Lois is a bad secondary character and Superman deserves someone better than her, someone as a woman, as a destined love, Maxima would be just a love interest without more.

Superman has done roughly the same numbers either way, so that "sells better if not married" thing doesn't fly (pun intended ). DC tried that. Repeatedly. And those sales patterns say more about the demographics and mentalities that the comics industry panders to than it does anything.

Clark doesn't only care about Lois. Even recent history under Bendis shows that. He cared about Kon (who he doesn't remember), he cared about Melody Moore, he cared about Robinson Goode, and just before Bendis he even showed compassion to Hank Henshaw.

As for "Lois dies and Superman goes insane" is the only thing you think Lois has contributed in recent years, that says two things: one, that DC writers are failing Lois as a character (which we all kinda know already), but also two: it's not even accurate. Jurgens had Lois going after Intergang and Rebirth in general showed that Lois is no pushover when it comes right down to it (and not just in a Bat-suit, either). Could they and should they be doing a lot more with her? Yeah, absolutely. But that they aren't is a failing on them, not a failing on her as a character or her value to both herself or Clark (as a character/partner) and the Super-verse as a whole.

And... you say Lois is "a bad secondary character," but also "the most important secondary character in history" - do you not see the conflict between those statements?

Apparently some people are getting access to the film already, its playing instead of Tom and Jerry, lol.

Didn't work for me, so they must have fixed it. All I see is the short crappy Justice League, not the long crappy Justice League, lol - and Tom And Jerry just plays Tom and Jerry (which was decent, btw).

[Vordan]

Apparently some people are getting access to the film already, its playing instead of Tom and Jerry, lol.

I just want the reviews to start coming out since I think those will be amusing at least.

[manwhohaseverything]

Clark doesn't only care about Lois. Even recent history under Bendis shows that. He cared about Kon (who he doesn't remember), he cared about Melody Moore, he cared about Robinson Goode, and just before Bendis he even showed compassion to Hank Henshaw.

Action comics issue where Lois returns from space disagrees with you.The guy decided his son is okay in space with a mad man and his wife is right.The mad man is what the company itself has termed jor el in the infinite frontier book.

The thing about Clark's compassion is that it comes across as either condescending or paternalistic when bad writers get a hold of.Regardless,superman is a dad.He treats people like children and his compassion comes across like that.

[manofsteel1979]

https://twitter.com/khan250101/statu...261282817?s=21


Lmao the Snyder Cult has pivoted to arguing that this plan is “kino” and essential to Clark becoming Superman. I’ve never seen such an utterly braindead fanbase. If Zaddy came up with it that means it’s the greatest thing ever, no exception.

The worst thing about it is Snyder is just this close to a genuinely good idea that ties back to MOS. The idea of Superman and Lois adopting a child of another world and basically Clark becoming Jor-El and Jonathan is actually pretty good. Where the suck comes from is it being the love child of the Man who almost killed him and Lois,who should at best be a distant distrustful ally against Lex Luthor. But no,he and Lois hook up and Clark raises the kid.

There is literally a bunch of other ways to get to that thematic point of Kal-El becoming his fathers without this weird and wrong headed twist. Hell I could get behind the idea Bruce and Selina having an orphaned kid adopted by Lois and Clark or something similar. Heck,instead of highfather raising Orion,have an infant Orion be raised by Lois and Clark. Or....even have it that Clark and Lois decide to name their actual kid Bruce in honor of the man who brought back Kal and saved Lois' life from Darkseid. Then have that kid grow up to be a mix of Bruce's legacy and Clark's as Nightwing. There are a bunch of ways to get there without creeping everyone in the audience out.

There is no defending the whole Bruce gets Lois pregnant whilst Clark is dead stuff. Its a terrible idea that makes Lois and Bruce look bad and Clark be co-opted for the legacy of another character. Full stop. I still think the reaction to MOS and BvS was needlessly vitriolic Back when they came out and I'm genuinely intrigued by the Snyder cut of jl,but I'm glad Snyder didn't get carte blanche and that someone in WB had the sense to say "no". Bruce Wayne,Clark Kent and Lois Lane all deserve better than to be put in this sort of story line. And frankly its unneeded.

[Kara Danvers]

Without the hate for MOS and BvS the WB executives may have let Snyder do his original plan.

[rpmaluki]

In the 90s LnC had Lois and Clark "adopt" a baby, or at least that was a forgone conclusion to their story when they were handed a baby in the last episode. Clark adopting someone else's child would be a nice bookend to his story but Snyder's plan is so abhorrent with how he brings Clark to that moment, using Lois so flippantly, her womb used to carry Batman's progeny, after he tried to kill Clark, the man she loved and then have her lie and basically "settle" for him because he "needs" her. The whole thing is just so insulting.

[kingaliencracker]

I wouldn’t be too sure of that. The Snyder Cut happened after all, against all odds. I could easily see some idiot at WB deciding that what they need is Snyder’s JL2 and JL3.

It's going to be extraordinarily difficult to gauge what the success level of this film actually is because it's truly unprecedented. WB is investing tens of millions of dollars into a big-budget film that bombed at the box office 4 years ago, just so it can increase subscribers for its streaming service. That just doesn't happen. The closest I've come up with ironically enough is The Donner Cut for Superman II but WB invested almost no money into that project, using test footage and unused scenes to finish that film. And Superman II wasn't a bomb at the box office.

But that's part of the reason why I think this is a one-off. Without a theatrical release there's really no way for WB to determine how much interest there really is in continuing Snyder's DCEU from a mainstream perspective. They're really looking at this as a low-risk/high-reward investment into HBOMax and nothing else. Also, Ben Affleck has moved on, Ray Fisher has dropped napalm on WB, and WB doesn't appear inclined to bring back Henry Cavill. That leaves Gal Gadot and Jason Mamoa, who are already doing their own films for their characters without Snyder, and Ezra Miller, whose Flash movie has been in developmental hell since JL. And as someone else pointed out, WB seems content for now with the "multiverse" approach for DC's properties so I don't foresee them altering those plans especially if films like Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Joker can do $1 billion without Snyder or a shared universe.

Now, if HBOMax doubles or triples its subscribers and Snyder's cut gets a 90 or above rating on Rotten Tomatoes? Yeah, it makes the conversation interesting. But I don't see either one of those happening, let alone happening simultaneously. BUT...never say never. As you said, this cut happened against logical odds so stranger things have happened.

[kingaliencracker]

Without the hate for MOS and BvS the WB executives may have let Snyder do his original plan.

Not to mention the rough cut of JL that Snyder presented to them that executives reportedly said was "incomprehensible".

[JAK]

Action comics issue where Lois returns from space disagrees with you.The guy decided his son is okay in space with a mad man and his wife is right.The mad man is what the company itself has termed jor el in the infinite frontier book.

The thing about Clark's compassion is that it comes across as either condescending or paternalistic when bad writers get a hold of.Regardless,superman is a dad.He treats people like children and his compassion comes across like that.

No, it doesn't. My point was that Clark didn't just care about Lois, and I'm not wrong on that. And, you may not remember, I'm one of the people who said that them letting Jor take him wasn't just out of character, it didn't make sense to recent history. I don't see that as a character flaw, I see that as bad/contrived writing - even if I did like Bendis's voice for Clark/Superman.

And Clark's compassion coming across as condescending is generally (imo) on you. I don't read that the same way at *all*, most of the time. As for paternalistic (not the same as "treating people like children," that read is also on you imo), I'm fine with that; he is a father after all, and he's always had some tendencies like that. He's a mature character at heart, and I think that helps to set him apart from the rest of the big names in comics.

The worst thing about it is Snyder is just this close to a genuinely good idea that ties back to MOS. The idea of Superman and Lois adopting a child of another world and basically Clark becoming Jor-El and Jonathan is actually pretty good. Where the suck comes from is it being the love child of the Man who almost killed him and Lois,who should at best be a distant distrustful ally against Lex Luthor. But no,he and Lois hook up and Clark raises the kid.

That's kind of Snyder's m.o., though. I've said on here before, I could take the bare-bones outline to BvS and (given probably half of his budget, lol) make a good movie. It's just the more specific he gets, the less appealing it becomes.

There is no defending the whole Bruce gets Lois pregnant whilst Clark is dead stuff. Its a terrible idea that makes Lois and Bruce look bad and Clark be co-opted for the legacy of another character. Full stop. I still think the reaction to MOS and BvS was needlessly vitriolic Back when they came out and I'm genuinely intrigued by the Snyder cut of jl,but I'm glad Snyder didn't get carte blanche and that someone in WB had the sense to say "no". Bruce Wayne,Clark Kent and Lois Lane all deserve better than to be put in this sort of story line. And frankly its unneeded.

Without the hate for MOS and BvS the WB executives may have let Snyder do his original plan.

I was pretty mad after the goons were killed in Superman Returns, but something about MoS really set me off - honestly, I think something about even the execution of MoS, as "best of the three/four" as it was, I could just tell how they looked at the character, and I was concerned it would have a long-standing effect on how Superman was portrayed after that. Thankfully, those fears were unfounded mostly, but I just *knew* something was very wrong.

[Pinsir]

Did not think it could get worse than that pic of Wonder Woman with decapitated heads but here we are.

Wonder Woman necking people is like an Italian chief making a fine pasta or boulder rolling down a hill; it's a core feature of her character.

[BlackClaw]

I'm glad this news came out before The Snyder Cut is released. It will hopefully quiet the masses demanding that he be given a chance to do MoS 2 and who claim he loves Superman.

If this came to fruition I would’ve cheered when Batman got killed off.

[superduperman]

If it's any consolation, it's not getting very good reviews.

[SiegePerilous02]

If it's any consolation, it's not getting very good reviews.

it actually seems mixed to positive, with a higher rating than so far than a lot were expecting.

It's still early though, so who knows. I think it will review better than BvS at least

[DochaDocha]

If it's any consolation, it's not getting very good reviews.

I just checked and saw Snyder's JL is sitting at 75% on RT.

[Blue22]

Yeah. I'm guessing it'll be better than BvS (not a particularly high bar) but it won't be something that I'd enjoy. Odds are, it'll be something that folks who already like Snyder will love and won't really do anything to change the minds of people who weren't already on bored. The most I'm hoping for at this point are some good action scenes.