Wonder Woman's Archnemesis

[hgzip]

I often think that Dr. Psycho should be WW's arch-nemesis. He is a fanatical misogynist, and she is (at least in the clay origin) a woman never touched by 'toxic' masculinity. She is also an UN Honorary Ambassador for the Empowerment of Women (in real life - which could nicely be merged into the comic universe), and she preaches her beliefs. All of this makes her a perfect target for a misogynist.

I always get the impression that Dr. Psycho does not simply want to kill WW, like other villains do. He wants to torture her, make her life miserable, and break her spirit. This should make him a good recurrent villain. In Marston's origin story of the character, he says something like 'death is too good for a woman', and he manages to rip Diana's soul out of her body - which is quite impressive. However, since New 52, Dr. Psycho seems to have (mostly) vanished, at least from the WW comics. Is Diana simply immune to his powers, because she carries the Lasso of Truth, and will always see through his illusions?

[I'm a Fish]

I often think that Dr. Psycho should be WW's arch-nemesis. He is a fanatical misogynist, and she is (at least in the clay origin) a woman never touched by 'toxic' masculinity. She is also an UN Honorary Ambassador for the Empowerment of Women (in real life - which could nicely be merged into the comic universe), and she preaches her beliefs. All of this makes her a perfect target for a misogynist.

I always get the impression that Dr. Psycho does not simply want to kill WW, like other villains do. He wants to torture her, make her life miserable, and break her spirit. This should make him a good recurrent villain. In Marston's origin story of the character, he says something like 'death is too good for a woman', and he manages to rip Diana's soul out of her body - which is quite impressive. However, since New 52, Dr. Psycho seems to have (mostly) vanished, at least from the WW comics. Is Diana simply immune to his powers, because she carries the Lasso of Truth, and will always see through his illusions?

Technically yes, she should always be immune to his power because of the lasso.

[Mel Dyer]

The WW comic hasn't adequately defined Wonder Woman and why she's doing what she's doing; so, plugging in an archenemy, this late in the game ..or at all, is a difficult fit.

Myrina Black believed so much in Amazon world domination, in the name of saving Man's World from itself, that she did it, with Darkseid. Now, that's a level of fanaticism, unmatched among Diana's rogues. Had she been in the comic, since the 1940s, her wild-eyed actions, in the Darkseid War, would conceivably be the culmination of a classic, enduring arch-enmity. She's potentially the Magneto of the rogues.

Does anybody know what the threat of Circe or Myrina or the Queen of Fables winning? How is Wonder Woman uniquely suited to stopping them? What about any of them poses a unique threat to her? These are the questions a writer should ask before entertaining the idea of an archenemy for Wonder Woman.

[Restingvoice]

The WW comic hasn't adequately defined Wonder Woman and why she's doing what she's doing; so, plugging in an archenemy, this late in the game ..or at all, is a difficult fit.

Myrina Black believed so much in Amazon world domination, in the name of saving Man's World from itself, that she did it, with Darkseid. Now, that's a level of fanaticism, unmatched among Diana's rogues. Had she been in the comic, since the 1940s, her wild-eyed actions, in the Darkseid War, would conceivably be the culmination of a classic, enduring arch-enmity. She's potentially the Magneto of the rogues.

I was thinking that she's more of a Hippolyta nemesis, or at least, dark mirror

[marhawkman]

I was thinking that she's more of a Hippolyta nemesis, or at least, dark mirror

Hmmm I like this take! Circe has Aeaea, Hippolyta has Paradise Island, now all we need is Circe's equivalent of the Amazons

The myths and legends talk about people(such as her daughter Cassiphone) living on Aeaea, so why not adapt that?

[Fuzzy Mittens]

To answer the original question of this thread, I feel its worth pointing out that while the Superfriends cartoon cemented Cheetah as Dianas villain in pop culture, that really wasn't reflected in the comics for a very very long time. Cheetah didn't appear for most of pre crisis, and wasn't the central villain for most of post crisis.
And while there have been some big efforts to push Cheetah as a big bad (that whole Wilson/Orlando arc) shes not really done alot to really earn that position in the comics.

Honestly I feel like part of the problem for Cheetah is they turned her into a legacy character and kept trying to reinvent her to be radically different things. One could argue that Cheetah wasn't originally Wonder Womans big bad (and she really wasn't, with Baroness and Ares really holding that role early on) Though considering Black Adam was a minor goon back in the day...

The issue is that Cheetah goes in a fair number of directions.
The first one was a split personality with weird astral plane/split personality stuff going on so she was immune to the magic lasso, and could turn others into her slaves who also had the whole split personality thing going on when Cheetah was done with em.

The second one was a skilled martial artist with augmentations and a terrorist organization she worked for
The third one was a minion to a plant god and was the physical power house of the lot. Established to be faster than Wonder Woman, and able to do alot of damage.
Then there was that short lived fourth one who had all the power of Minerva plus had money...
And then we got that Rebirth Minerva who had the good storyline and was probably the first real effort to try setting her up as Dianas central foe.

Honestly its kinda hard for me to think of Cheetah as Wonder Womans central foe when the main argument is pop culture, despite the fact that
1. Superfriends used Priscilla Rich who the comics hardly ever touch anymore
2. When she shows up in media shes usually the minion of someone else like Maxwell Lord, Veronica Cale, or Lex Luthor
3. Her theme is not really explored enough or used as a contrast to what Wonder Woman stands for.

And make no mistake, Cheetah DOES have themes that make her a good contrast to Diana. They just don't really get leaned on at all.
Priscilla Rich was defined as a woman who had such an incredible inferiority complex to Wonder Woman (who at the time boasted that her powers came from believing in herself because that was the source of everyones power) that Priscilla actually gained powers from a sense of dis-empowerment and inability to believe in herself. She loathes those who are successful and strives to destroy those better than her for thats the only way she can view herself as worth anything.

Deborah Domaine was a friend of Dianas who had a cause in enviormentalism that Diana championed. Only for her to be led astray by those who say her only for her legacy and corrupted her, turning her evil. Making her into a twisted reflection of the woman she once was. While not as solid a theme in connection with Wonder Woman, the familiarity between the two does make for an interesting story on paper.

Post crisis gave us a Barbara Minerva who was a woman who fought and clawed her way to success. Caring not one iota for what happened to others so long as she was able to find the wealth she desired and wisk those treasures off to her castle in England. A Cheetah who became a bloodthirsty beast and killed once a month.
With Rebirth taking that same character and making her instead a book nerd who Diana failed to come for, who Veronica Cale turned into the Cheetah twice, and for some reason now has a whole theme built around wanting to kill the Olympian gods?


When it comes to a central villain for a character it can help if their defined by their heroes and they have a theme that reflects the hero they menace, however thats not necessarily a requirement. Heck, how does 'godmod clown who likes killing people' really serve as a contrast to Batman? People basically have to invent this notion of 'Batman symbolizes order and Joker symbolizes chaos' to make any sort of theme out of that, and this is a really recent idea someone is trying to pull with these characters.


As for who would be the big central villain if Cheetah isn't....Hmm...Its a tough question to be sure.
Back in the golden age Wonder Woman represented a number of things. Peace, Education, Female Empowerment, Loving Submission, Believing in oneself.
And a number of her villains from Ares to Baroness to Doctor Psycho certainly served to either counter or twist those themes in one way or another.

Post Crisis had Perez lean on the idea of Diana as an ambassador of peace, established her as having 'faith' as a big theme, and since the magic lasso was now defined as 'the lasso of truth' it made the concept of 'Truth' a theme belonging to Wonder Woman.
This led to writers trying off and on to make Ares her big villain. Circe was tied to Wonder Woman thanks to a Mishkin inspired prophecy that Diana was destined to destroy her. But aside from those two, no single villain was really given the effort of becoming Wonder Womans big foe.

Rebirth has tried pushing Veronica Cale and Cheetah as Wonder Womans big foes, but Veronicas motivations and driving force are kinda iffy, and Cheetah is to prone to doing what shes told and serving other villains whims to fill that niche as shes typically portrayed. Rebirth between Rucka, Wilson, and Orlando was arguably the most thats ever been done with Cheetah as a character. And yet despite this you could sum up that period as 'Turned evil because Veronica Cale told her to', 'Did what Lex Luthor told her to', and 'Tried to kill Wonder Woman with the help of Veronica Cale who came up with a whole plan to double cross Wonder Woman that Cheetahs just going along with'

If I could go back in time to the post crisis period and had the allmighty power of editorial, id have been pushing the Duke of Deception as a big villain for Wonder Woman. As a god of lies and deceit sounds like a good thematic counterpart to a 'spirit of truth' Oh and keep the whole golden age origin for Doctor Psycho where the Duke of Deception gave that nutcase his powers.

But as it is, im honestly gonna have to go with either Ares, Circe, or Doctor Psycho.
Ares thematically is the best choice. Shes consistently been about peace since the beginning to the modern day, and hes literally the personification of war. However theme isn't necesarily everything, and several writers over the years have challenged the idea of war necessarily as a bad thing. (America really reveres militarism doesn't it?)

Doctor Psycho stands out simply for his misogenistic themes being so utterly counter to everything Wonder Woman believes in, and the fact that hes just about the only villain in Wonder Womans mythos whose never been redeemed or convinced to give up his evil ways. Hes genuinly just an evil piece of crap who enjoys torturing people and torments women because he can. While the question of whether his powers even work on Wonder Woman has been bounced back and forth over the years, hes easily the most interesting villain I know of in comics when it comes to 'evil mind control'
If they just kept those golden age powers of 'astral plane ectoplasm' and that power to nom the psychic powers of other psychics to make himself stronger, he would be a much bigger deal I think.

Circe has over the years been established to have a closer connection to Diana then just about any of her other villains. She has incredible power, has been given several motivations over the years, and poses a challenge to Wonder Woman that certainly makes her an arch nemesis that no other hero has. A question can be raised if she can count as a villain given her interactions with Diana are not necesarily antagonistic, but with as much power as she has and as complex as her relationship with Diana is, this is probably the better approach.

In the end its kinda a toss up to say who would be best served as Wonder Womans big bad. She has some tough contenders. And as Batmans Jokers shown, it doesn't necesarily have to make any level of sense so long as the villain is their own boss.

[SiegePerilous02]

Rebirth Cheetah did not go evil because "Veronica told her to." She was on that path because of her own hubris, Godwatch just sped up the inevitable and kept Diana out of the way.

The scene of Diana trying to convince her to abandon her expedition plans, and her refusing to listen before even meeting Veronica, exists for a reason.

[Gaius]

Rebirth Cheetah did not go evil because "Veronica told her to." She was on that path because of her own hubris, Godwatch just sped up the inevitable and kept Diana out of the way.

The scene of Diana trying to convince her to abandon her expedition plans, and her refusing to listen before even meeting Veronica, exists for a reason.

Yeah, sense I got from Rebirth Barbara was if she weren't friends with Diana or interacted with Cale than that would maybe delay what happened to her by a few years but something like the Perez origin would have eventually happened.

Though I think it would have helped if we saw Barbara make the choice to be Cheetah rather than cutting to the immediate aftermath.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yeah, sense I got from Rebirth Barbara was if she weren't friends with Diana or interacted with Cale than that would maybe delay what happened to her by a few years but something like the Perez origin would have eventually happened.

Though I think it would have helped if we saw Barbara make the choice to be Cheetah rather than cutting to the immediate aftermath.

Yeah, it's a story that should be told. Maybe Rucka was saving it for himself? Cloonan and Conrad might also hopefully tackle it.

I think Urzkartaga stating that she spoke to him and told him about Diana implies that she had attempted to strike a bargain, and only shifted the narrative to Diana "abandoning" her because she didn't like the consequences she was stuck with.

She may not have even used the signal device, or only attempted to use it well after it was too late.

[I'm a Fish]

I felt like the second Barbara found out Diana existed, she would have gone searching for other gods and found Urzkartaga and become Cheetah.

It was the knowledge that gods existed that drove her to search for them. Her close friendship with Diana and eventual partnership with Cale just got her there faster. Phobos and Demos made it clear Cale's involvement only sped up the inevitable.

[I'm a Fish]

Priscilla Rich was defined as a woman who had such an incredible inferiority complex to Wonder Woman (who at the time boasted that her powers came from believing in herself because that was the source of everyones power) that Priscilla actually gained powers from a sense of dis-empowerment and inability to believe in herself. She loathes those who are successful and strives to destroy those better than her for thats the only way she can view herself as worth anything.

That's actually a pretty cool way to think about Pricilla that I haven't though about before. The idea that she is so incapable of believing in herself as an equal to Wonder Woman she had to create a separate personality to compete against her, because deep down she doesn't feel like she's good enough to even take on Wonder Woman.

[marhawkman]

That's actually a pretty cool way to think about Pricilla that I haven't though about before. The idea that she is so incapable of believing in herself as an equal to Wonder Woman she had to create a separate personality to compete against her, because deep down she doesn't feel like she's good enough to even take on Wonder Woman.

Which... actually explains a lot. In Superfriends there was an ep where the Legion of Doom somehow used time travel to prevent 3 JL members from becoming superheroes. Oddly Lex steal's Hal Jordan's power Ring by replacing him at a critical moment. While Sinestro redirects Kal-El's rocket to keep it from landing on Earth at all. The only true archenemy fight was Priscilla vs Diana... not as Cheetah and Wonder Woman, but as Amazons! Technically Priscilla cheats, but she literally BECOMES Wonder Woman by defeating her in the tournament to decide who would be the Champion of Paradise Island. Yep, there is a timeline somewhere in the multiverse where Priscilla Rich is Champion of Paradise Island... and Wonder Woman! Which suddenly makes more sense. It's a bit odd for a Supervillain to STEAL a hero's identity.

[Fuzzy Mittens]

Hmm...I may have to give that Rebirth run a reread. I don't recall these exchanges between Phobos and Deimos at all. It really recontextualizes my interpretation of that origin.

When it comes to the Cheetahs, I confess that Priscilla Rich is my favorite of the lot. She may lack the sheer power of Barbara Minerva, but id argue she is the most cunning and strategic of the Cheetahs.
The sheer fact that the Cheetah personality is so considered a seperate person that she can switch out with Priscilla when caught by the magic lasso with the poor dancer even under the lassos power having no idea what her other half had been responsible for and being able to claim innocence makes her a very rare foil for the lassos power.

Combine that with the various depictions of her 'bringing out the inner animal within her prey' turning them into unknowing sleeper agents who can be activated to carry out orders with no way of knowing that they are Priscillas slaves, and it makes her a very devious foe. Someone who would not hesitate to attack through misdirection or underhanded means.

[I'm a Fish]

***i moved this comment to a threat because I felt like it shouldn't be explored in this thread***

[John Venus]

I will give this to Priscilla, she is the only one who can be beaten through the power of dance:

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