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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    I think Cheetah is the archnemesis and Silver Swan is the Two-Face villain

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I didn't care at all for the Circe episode in the DCAU JL show but one thing I liked was they made it Circe's real grudge was with Hippolyta but went after Diana as a form of revenge as external reasons prevented her from going after Hippolyta.

    I think that'd be an interesting basis to work off of.
    It also makes sense when you keep in mind that Circe is... around 3000 years old? It just makes more sense for Circe's true rivalry to be Hippolyta who is... also several thousand years old. Diana... is not. It's part of what makes her special.

    Oh wait, this is a reason for Circe to be Hippolyta's archnemesis, and for WW to be Hippolyta's minion...

    Speaking of minions I still think that they should introduce Cassiphone as one of Circe's underlings. She's a mythological character who was Circe's daughter.

    Yes, they did the Lyta Milton story... and well having both could be really interesting.

  3. #33
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Zod’s beef with Kal starts from his relationship with Jor-El, but it eventually evolves into something personal between the two. Don’t have a problem with Circe’s enmity with Diana starting off as her having hatred for Amazons in general, and then evolving into something personal over time.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Circe should be to Hippolyta what Barbara Ann is to Diana.

    I'm actually coming around to beefing up Heracles's role as a major foe foe Wonder Woman. He's key to the background already and makes more sense as an evil male villain than Ares when we take the actual myths into consideration. Ares maybe should be re-imagined as one of the Amazon patrons due to being Hippolyta's father, albeit one who they can't rely on to be benevolent a lot of the time, and leave Heracles as the foe who has agency to harm the Amazons on his own.

    I think Diana's top arch foes should be Cheetah, Heracles and Veronica (in that order). Circe is a major figure but also a capricious wild card who may not consistently be an antagonist like the other three. Same with Ares, who is pretty dull as a straight villain and doesn't have much use beyond the origin story.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Zod’s beef with Kal starts from his relationship with Jor-El, but it eventually evolves into something personal between the two. Don’t have a problem with Circe’s enmity with Diana starting off as her having hatred for Amazons in general, and then evolving into something personal over time.
    Yeah, the Zod and Joe-El + Superman dynamic was what I was thinking of.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Circe should be to Hippolyta what Barbara Ann is to Diana.

    I'm actually coming around to beefing up Heracles's role as a major foe foe Wonder Woman. He's key to the background already and makes more sense as an evil male villain than Ares when we take the actual myths into consideration. Ares maybe should be re-imagined as one of the Amazon patrons due to being Hippolyta's father, albeit one who they can't rely on to be benevolent a lot of the time, and leave Heracles as the foe who has agency to harm the Amazons on his own.

    I think Diana's top arch foes should be Cheetah, Heracles and Veronica (in that order). Circe is a major figure but also a capricious wild card who may not consistently be an antagonist like the other three. Same with Ares, who is pretty dull as a straight villain and doesn't have much use beyond the origin story.
    I thought Ares could be used as good example of Diana redeeming her enemies where after an origin ending like in Gods and Mortals he becomes a more neutral/uneasy ally figure. Sort of like what Wilson did in her first arc. Something I liked even more though it didn’t seem to lead anywhere on the rest of her run.

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Circe should be to Hippolyta what Barbara Ann is to Diana.

    I'm actually coming around to beefing up Heracles's role as a major foe foe Wonder Woman. He's key to the background already and makes more sense as an evil male villain than Ares when we take the actual myths into consideration. Ares maybe should be re-imagined as one of the Amazon patrons due to being Hippolyta's father, albeit one who they can't rely on to be benevolent a lot of the time, and leave Heracles as the foe who has agency to harm the Amazons on his own.

    I think Diana's top arch foes should be Cheetah, Heracles and Veronica (in that order). Circe is a major figure but also a capricious wild card who may not consistently be an antagonist like the other three. Same with Ares, who is pretty dull as a straight villain and doesn't have much use beyond the origin story.
    Heh, Ares had an interesting story moment in Xena where, despite the fact that in both series Ares was always one of the main villains, both before AND after this, Xena comes to the realization... that having a wargod makes war less hellish. Ares isn't the reason Humans start wars. He merely directs them into conflicts that aren't blind aggression.

    Also the version of Eris in Xena was played by Meighan Desmond.
    Aresdiscord.jpg
    Yeah having TWO gods associated with war(3 if you count Strife) adds another level of fun. It doesn't NEED to be Ares himself when you have Eris and Strife... oh hey, why not throw in Phobos and Deimos too? So many lesser gods you can use to annoy heroes... while the big ones sit around Mount Olympus. Seriously... writers need to use lesser gods more often if they're gonna use mythology. Well, that's full gods, not people like Circe, Hercules, Lyta Milton, and Cassiphone who are some form of demi-god. For some reason writers tend to jump to the most recognizable few....

  7. #37
    Incredible Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Even Lex and Joker have teamed up with Supes and Bats at points in time. I’d prefer not to lose any more female villains to anti-heroism, especially any Wonder Rogues.

    But yeah I’d also echo Agent Z and say there needs to be more exploration of the motives of Circe, Cheetah, and most of Diana’s Rogues. Someone needs to try to do a story told from one of her villain’s point of view.
    There have been a couple from her perspective. Vol.2 #222, Vol.4 #23.1, and Vol.5 #8 but I guess that last two are more of an origin story.

    Also it just occurred to me, Cheetah the only Wonder Woman original villain to appear in Vol.4 of Wonder Woman.

  8. #38
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    There have been a couple from her perspective. Vol.2 #222, Vol.4 #23.1, and Vol.5 #8 but I guess that last two are more of an origin story.

    Also it just occurred to me, Cheetah the only Wonder Woman original villain to appear in Vol.4 of Wonder Woman.
    Doctor Poison was in one issue of Finch's dreadful run (where she was whitewashed).

  9. #39
    Incredible Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Doctor Poison was in one issue of Finch's dreadful run (where she was whitewashed).
    Oh right... She never wore the costume... probably why I forgot about her 2 seconds after reading that issue.

    At least in the movie it made sense to change her ethnicity because Japan supported the Allies in WW1.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 03-06-2021 at 05:14 PM.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    There have been a couple from her perspective. Vol.2 #222, Vol.4 #23.1, and Vol.5 #8 but I guess that last two are more of an origin story.

    Also it just occurred to me, Cheetah the only Wonder Woman original villain to appear in Vol.4 of Wonder Woman.
    Right, but I’m talking about a prestige standalone story like:



    Do something like those two with one of Diana’s Rogues as a BL book.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  11. #41
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    I'm not crazy about Wonder Woman's archenemy being a witch and would prefer her having a more physical nemesis. So, while I haven't historically been a fan, I think the NEW Circe has surpassed Wonder Woman's other foes, including Cheetah, in clarity of motivation and in deserving her enmity with humankind and Wonder Woman, and I tried to showcase why in this blog post (below). James Tynion's Circe may be one of the few Wonder-villains we can actually cheer on, simply because her contempt for the human race, who betrayed her, is somewhat justified.

    We're forced to ask ourselves, "Is Circe right in her pursuit of our torment?"...

    "...Circe, is slowly developing into something interesting, outside of the WW comic - "The Witching War" arc in the hot-trending JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK.

    In James Tynion IV's origin tale, the mythical princess of ancient Greek Colchis, celebrated for her radiance and healing arts, ..finds herself the young (maybe, teenaged) hostage in an arranged marriage to the cruel king of a wealthier nation. Upon killing the abusive pig - a rich friend of her father Aeetes, perhaps - and hanging him in a meat locker, her once worshipful people chase her into the Underworld, where the Greek goddess of witchcraft, Hekate, grants her great sorcerous power! With it, she returns to Man's World and revenges herself on those treacherous Colchistines, transfiguring them into animals and, in a nod to classical lit, slaughtering many, ..like pigs.


    From the pages of DC Comics' Justice League Dark, ..Circe begins! With Álvaro Martínez Bueno pencils and a James Tynion IV story

    The rest is comic super-villain history.

    I like the bones of this story! Circe starting her life, as a benevolent and powerful woman, betrayed by ungrateful people, under her protection, and that betrayal inspiring a hatred of humanity, ..for-EVER. Great story! Unlike what went before it, it is a CLEAR story - one that puts her squarely in the path of Diana's life mission, fueling an enmity worthy of an inexhaustible mound of movies, lunchboxes and underwear! It even picks up the Golden Age elements that see Circe banished from the world of men, which creates a great opportunity for writers to tell the story of 'Young Circe' ..and the many struggles that justify her lust for revenge..."
    There's more from this post, on Wondabunga... https://wondabunga.blogspot.com/2021...g-bad-ask.html
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 03-06-2021 at 08:48 PM.
    The Queen Mother In-law of All Wonder Woman Blogs...WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    that's something heavily borrowed from the myths. Circe had her island kingdom... because she was exiled from Colchis. Although in Greek myths her actual origin was uncertain. Her father in the current comic version is apparently Helios. So, to be born as princess of Colchis... her mother would have to be a human in the royal family?

    this is one of the odd bits. Some of the myths have her as more of a minor goddess(god+nymph) than demi-goddess... but some have her as a demi-goddess and born heir to the throne of Colchis. Or did she simply marry the heir? Yeah myths are a bit conflicting. Also in the original myths Colchis was part of Circe's backstory, and not the focus of the story. So it was kinda like a throwaway line and not delved into really

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I often felt like Cheetah is her personal archenemy. We have Circe who is Diana's and Amazons

  14. #44
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    In his Justice League run, Dwayne McDuffie probably did the most with trying to elevate Cheetah, alongside Joker and Lex, as the leaders of the Injustice League - and that wasn’t really even a lot of on panel time. Gail Simone also worked Cheetah in as a leader in the Society and a instigator in the creation of Genocide, IIRC. Again, that wasn’t a ton of on panel time either.

    I’m pretty devoted to Barbara Minerva being the true threat and the Cheetah being an addictive tool to stand amongst the most powerful supervillains and challenge the most powerful superheroes.

    Barbara and Lex need to stand toe-to-toe in their respective fields; mythology, anthropology, and archeology in the DCU and technology and super science in the DCU.

    Until she’s shown as holding her own with (and sometimes besting) the other Big Bads in the DCU, she’s always going to be seen as just a limited, supporting player when the villains get together.

    Barbara should, in some ways, threaten Circe and Ares. She’s a mortal who doesn’t know her place and doesn’t let her mortality stand in the way of acquiring power and challenging the gods themselves. She can be an epic villain (and not a pawn), if creators can see her that way.
    Last edited by WonderScott; 03-08-2021 at 08:46 AM.

  15. #45
    Incredible Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    In his Justice League run, Dwayne McDuffie probably did the most with trying to elevate Cheetah, alongside Joker and Lex, as the leaders of the Injustice League - and wasnÂ’t really even a lot of on panel time. Gail Simone also worked Cheetah in as a leader in the Society and a instigator in the creation of Genocide, IIRC. Again, that wasnÂ’t a ton of on panel time either.

    I”m pretty devoted to Barbara Minerva being the true threat and the Cheetah being an addictive tool to stand amongst the most powerful supervillains and challenge the most powerful superheroes.

    Barbara and Lex need to stand toe-to-toe in their respective fields; mythology, anthropology, and archeology in the DCU and technology and super science in the DCU.

    Until sheÂ’s shown as holding her own with (and sometimes besting) the other Big Bads in the DCU, sheÂ’s always going to be seen as just a limited, supporting player when the villains get together.

    Barbara should, in some ways, threaten Circe and Ares. SheÂ’s a mortal who doesnÂ’t know her place and doesnÂ’t let her mortality stand in the way of acquiring power and challenging the gods themselves. She can be an epic villain (and not a pawn), if creators can see her that way.
    Yeah I agree Barbara should have the cockiness of Lex but backed up with tons of anger. When Rucka laid the fountains to have her go on a god killing spree at the end of his run, I was secretly hoping to just see just loose it and go full Kratos and just kill Gods left. Cheetah already killed Poseidon and Aphrodite, the latter of which should seriously upset Ares when he finds out.

    Part of me wishes she killed Aphrodite without the help of the God killer sword and just her own claws, like they could adopted the whole "only a god (or demigod) can kill a god" from the WW movies. The godkiller sword aspect was ok, but she should have at least found it herself.

    Also Orlando kind of stepped on Barbara's god-killing plot and I don't know what her motives are anymore...
    She even left of fairly good terms with Diana, and so did Circe for that matter in JL Dark, so I don't know were their plots are heading.

    I always thought a potential long term plot for her would be that she would eventually convince herself that Diana would someday become like the Greek gods, all terrible and selfish and stuff (even though we know Diana would never become like that) and want to kill her before that could happen. It's crazy, but Cheetah has never been known to be mentally stable. Even Diana thought she was the god of war in (the maybe cannon) Vol.4 run.

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