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  1. #16
    Safari Grandma Sophicles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    Would it? Feats for that attack? Because Carol's casual blasts blow up space ships.
    Well Agatha's blast got deflected and it blew up the nearby gazebo... which appeared to be made of wood.

    And I'd assume whatever metals a spaceship is made out of would be more durable than a gazebo, there's really no way of quantifying exactly how much more Wanda's shield could've blocked.

  2. #17
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    On the flip side, what are the durability feats for the spaceships?
    For Kree fighters? Atmospheric reentry (see Yon Rogg's ship). So more than a car.

  3. #18
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    For Kree fighters? Atmospheric reentry (see Yon Rogg's ship). So more than a car.
    So your argument here is that, because Wanda's shields haven't been shown to stop more than that level of power, they can't? Because that's a dumb argument, when your supporting evidence is as nebulous as "So more than a car". Especially considering Wanda's power-level.
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  4. #19
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    So your argument here is that, because Wanda's shields haven't been shown to stop more than that level of power, they can't? Because that's a dumb argument, when your supporting evidence is as nebulous as "So more than a car". Especially considering Wanda's power-level.
    So, your argument is that Wanda's quickdraw/non-buildup shields can stop things beyond anything they have been shown to stop? This is an... interesting argument.

    Also, my evidence is "resists atmospheric reentry". So you can stop with the strawman.

    Of note, and just before it gets turned into another strawman, the point is not that Wanda doesn't have the power to stop Carol's blasts. She obviously does. She was ripping apart Thanos, for Christ sakes, when given enough wind-up. The point is that the power she can apply in an instant, similar to her usual quick draw blasts, is not enough. She requires significant wind-up and charge time to apply greater power. She simply doesn't have the quick draw feats to resist casual blasts of that scale. And while she's preoccupied blocking things, Carol simply does her own large-scale chargeup, which typically one-shots city-sized space-ships and everything. This is your typical "mage vs. warrior" situation, a mage has more power, but its useless if the warrior can run up mid-chant and bop you in the head.
    Last edited by Twickster; 03-05-2021 at 07:59 PM.

  5. #20
    JUST DO IT?!?! Postmania's Avatar
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    I do think Carol's quick feats kind of beat Wanda's quicker protection/offense.
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  6. #21
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    So, your argument is that Wanda's quickdraw/non-buildup shields can stop things beyond anything they have been shown to stop? This is an... interesting argument.

    Also, my evidence is "resists atmospheric reentry". So you can stop with the strawman.

    Of note, and just before it gets turned into another strawman, the point is not that Wanda doesn't have the power to stop Carol's blasts. She obviously does. She was ripping apart Thanos, for Christ sakes, when given enough wind-up. The point is that the power she can apply in an instant, similar to her usual quick draw blasts, is not enough. She requires significant wind-up and charge time to apply greater power. She simply doesn't have the quick draw feats to resist casual blasts of that scale. And while she's preoccupied blocking things, Carol simply does her own large-scale chargeup, which typically one-shots city-sized space-ships and everything. This is your typical "mage vs. warrior" situation, a mage has more power, but its useless if the warrior can run up mid-chant and bop you in the head.
    What strawman, first of all?

    It's a nebulous statement you made, "more than a car" could be anything from a decently sized bomb, to the Tsar Bomba. You getting pissy because I called you on it, is not my problem. Nor is you attempting to say that Wanda's shields are demonstrably weaker than... well, she is, because we've only seen them do one thing... despite her using the SAME energy that constitutes the shield to do things like nearly tear Thanos to pieces, and fling about massive drills. Why and how is her using that same energy to make a shield, make the shield so phenomenally weaker?
    Yeah, but if you... man, we're getting into weird analogy territory, like if you disintegrated Superman's arms he wouldn't be able to go "fool! Little did you know that my arms and I are one and can be remade from me!" and will his arms back into being from pure nothingness. - Pendaran

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  7. #22
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh View Post
    What strawman, first of all?

    It's a nebulous statement you made, "more than a car" could be anything from a decently sized bomb, to the Tsar Bomba. You getting pissy because I called you on it, is not my problem.
    Can a car withstand atmospheric reentry? No? Because Kree fighters can. Then what I said was accurate. You're pissed your strawman argument is failing because Kree fighters actually *have* durability feats.

    Edit: And anticipating another strawman (i.e. heat from atmospheric reentry =/force) said Kree fighter also takes a punch from Carol (which is quite different from a head-on belly flop which explodes one), which disables but doesn't crumple it outright, then crashes into the ground and be mostly intact. A punch from Carol, who outmuscles Thanos. So Kree fighters have pretty decent durability feats. And Carol one-shots them with casual blasts.

    Nor is you attempting to say that Wanda's shields are demonstrably weaker than... well, she is, because we've only seen them do one thing... despite her using the SAME energy that constitutes the shield to do things like nearly tear Thanos to pieces, and fling about massive drills. Why and how is her using that same energy to make a shield, make the shield so phenomenally weaker?
    Because there is a distinction between going from zero to sixty as far as Wanda's feats are concerned. This is the same person who was ripping Thanos apart, could break a sword that cut through Captain America's shield, yet couldn't completely block shots from the Sanctuary II. Couldn't completely block shots from Proxma Midnight's staff. Couldn't block an explosion from destroying a building in Lagos. See the commonality in all the later cases? These were fast. Wanda is powerful, possibly the most powerful application of force in a non-cosmic in the MCU. But she needs time to get her stuff running. Her quick draw stuff isn't nearly as powerful.
    Last edited by Twickster; 03-05-2021 at 10:59 PM.

  8. #23
    The Revan.....lives! Oswin's Avatar
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    I don't see much build up needed when she was ripping thanos aside from her raising her hands. same when she picked up those giant drilling machines.
    The only real build up i can recall is when she created the initial Hex, the second blast was damn near instant (the one where she actually transmogrifies the entire town) but maybe the was already the build up from the hex?

    That being said , most of these feats were done by wanda when she was vastly, VASTLY weaker. I think we can all agree that if we take scarlet wich from the end of the show and plop her in the end game final fight she would have wrecked shop.

  9. #24
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswin View Post
    I don't see much build up needed when she was ripping thanos aside from her raising her hands. same when she picked up those giant drilling machines.
    The only real build up i can recall is when she created the initial Hex, the second blast was damn near instant (the one where she actually transmogrifies the entire town) but maybe the was already the build up from the hex?

    That being said , most of these feats were done by wanda when she was vastly, VASTLY weaker. I think we can all agree that if we take scarlet wich from the end of the show and plop her in the end game final fight she would have wrecked shop.
    There is a pretty clear distinction from where she is ripping Thanos up, to blocking shots (which she fails to do) from the Sancuary II, which happens in the same fight. The Sanctuary II pretty much hits in the same league as the Hulk or Giant Man (one-shots space whales territory), and we know Thanos withstands hits from the Hulk just fine. So, with build-up = about to rip Thanos in half. Without build-up = overwhelmed by a shot that Thanos could reasonably tank.

    The only real build up i can recall is when she created the initial Hex, the second blast was damn near instant (the one where she actually transmogrifies the entire town) but maybe the was already the build up from the hex?
    You have a strange idea of what "instant" means.



    That being said , most of these feats were done by wanda when she was vastly, VASTLY weaker. I think we can all agree that if we take scarlet wich from the end of the show and plop her in the end game final fight she would have wrecked shop.
    Sure, by Hex reality-warping shenanigans. Nothing in Wandavision explicitly makes her TK or shields explicitly more powerful (and indeed she has other, better feats in previous media). With wind-up, Wanda was ripping through Ultron Prime's chest (something that triple teaming Iron Man, Vision and Thor melted but didn't punch through, nor did Hulk even dent) since her first movie. She punched Vision through hundreds of feet of earth in Civil War. Her TK feats in Infinity War and Endgame eclipse anything in Wandavision. The power of her TK, given wind-up, throughout her appearance in the MCU has remained remarkably consistent. Wandavision "powered her up" in the sense that she now realizes she's a reality warper, not a powerup in her regular bolts and blasts, which were always that powerful.
    Last edited by Twickster; 03-06-2021 at 01:42 AM.

  10. #25
    The Revan.....lives! Oswin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twickster View Post
    There is a pretty clear distinction from where she is ripping Thanos up, to blocking shots (which she fails to do) from the Sancuary II, which happens in the same fight. The Sanctuary II pretty much hits in the same league as the Hulk or Giant Man (one-shots space whales territory), and we know Thanos withstands hits from the Hulk just fine. So, with build-up = about to rip Thanos in half. Without build-up = overwhelmed by a shot that Thanos could reasonably tank.
    To be clear, when we are talking about "build up" we are talking about her having to charge herself up right? or do you mean something else? the blast from the ship was an indirect blast, it hit the ground and the shockwave is what sent her flying. It did not hit her shield.

    You have a strange idea of what "instant" means.
    I'm referring to her casting the second wave hex, not the hex engulfing the town. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sor44Ds3ofM 25 seconds in.

  11. #26
    The Revan.....lives! Oswin's Avatar
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    my bad, i'm talking about the initial hex which she did 2 waves of, first building her own house, and the second one transmuting the town, i did not mean the expanding of the hex

  12. #27
    The Revan.....lives! Oswin's Avatar
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    uhm, is this picture even showing up?

    wanda.jpg
    Last edited by Oswin; 03-06-2021 at 08:15 AM.

  13. #28
    Cruel and Unusual Twickster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oswin View Post
    To be clear, when we are talking about "build up" we are talking about her having to charge herself up right? or do you mean something else? the blast from the ship was an indirect blast, it hit the ground and the shockwave is what sent her flying. It did not hit her shield.
    Seems really reaching, especially since we see the shield expanding quite a bit above her. Also, I have the video in front of me right now, and the blast hits her red aura head on. So, logical conclusion, the shot went through.

    Untitled-6.jpg

    I'm referring to her casting the second wave hex, not the hex engulfing the town. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sor44Ds3ofM 25 seconds in.
    And again, you have a strange idea of what "instant" is. Also, it seems strange that you would consider this as two separate things when its clearly shown to be a single and ongoing thing that Wanda was doing. The entire build-up starts when she starts making her house. It took a long time, with lots of build-up. Entirely in keeping with her feats, power-level and presentation.
    Last edited by Twickster; 03-06-2021 at 02:04 AM.

  14. #29
    Writer and editor KJS's Avatar
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    This is quicker than any attack Captain Marvel could execute across Khazan. And it's shielding Wanda using the exact same energy that blocked an attack from Thanos' blade and subsequently smashed it. The same blade that smashed through Captain America's shield. It's also the exact same energy that left Thanos absolutely helpless and was tearing his armour apart - the same armour that Hulk's attack didn't scratch. More to the point, the same armour that Thor, Iron Man, Mjolnir-Captain America and Captain Marvel herself didn't scratch.

    The energy Wanda uses is clearly exceptionally potent and durable. There are literally feats to prove it - the one where she explicitly used it to block Thanos' blade attack being the most relevant here, because nothing else in MCU history has damaged vibranium like that thing did.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by KJS View Post
    This is quicker than any attack Captain Marvel could execute across Khazan. And it's shielding Wanda using the exact same energy that blocked an attack from Thanos' blade and subsequently smashed it. The same blade that smashed through Captain America's shield. It's also the exact same energy that left Thanos absolutely helpless and was tearing his armour apart - the same armour that Hulk's attack didn't scratch. More to the point, the same armour that Thor, Iron Man, Mjolnir-Captain America and Captain Marvel herself didn't scratch.

    The energy Wanda uses is clearly exceptionally potent and durable. There are literally feats to prove it - the one where she explicitly used it to block Thanos' blade attack being the most relevant here, because nothing else in MCU history has damaged vibranium like that thing did.
    Without getting too involved in everything else...

    Wanda's attack on Ultron's heart, Glaive's spear and Thanos' fingers against Vision were all absolutely "damaged vibranium like that thing did" moments.
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