Is Superman worth it anymore?

[PCN24454]

Nah, he was never worth it.

[SiegePerilous02]

One of the things about Superman being out of touch with DC brass is that it paradoxically makes him cool and a bit of an underdog. Because Superman's so disrespected by DC and treated so shabbily, he's become vulnerable and people tend to root for him, he has that quality to him.

Batgod for instance used to be "the most relatable hero" at one point but now he's overexposed so often for so long that almost everything in that character has been played out and he eats way too much off the buffet while leaving the rest to wait hungry in line with plates. And on account of him being absurdly rich billionaire, he's a lot less acceptable with each passing day.

It bothers me that we never get enough "evil Batman" stories (Dark Knights Metal was a corrective on this admittedly) because at the end of the day a dude with superpowers granted by solar radiation taking over the world isn't gonna happen. Billionaires with a streak of self-righteousness and god complexes however are a major ongoing threat to human civilization in the current century.

Yes, with Bruce's status as a billionaire you really HAVE to write him like his DCAU or Bronze age counterparts to effectively sell him as a sympathetic hero who you want to root for. They keep spamming him everywhere but also keep doing it with a lot of bad takes.

I love the character, but the way he's presented a lot of the time now it makes more sense to make him the natural enemy of the likes of Superman and Wonder Woman than an ally. I'm in favor of DC not making their heroes into villains in general, but if we have to have more, we're overdue for some evil Batmen. Get it out of their system with him for a change

[Prime]

One of the things about Superman being out of touch with DC brass is that it paradoxically makes him cool and a bit of an underdog. Because Superman's so disrespected by DC and treated so shabbily, he's become vulnerable and people tend to root for him, he has that quality to him.

Batgod for instance used to be "the most relatable hero" at one point but now he's overexposed so often for so long that almost everything in that character has been played out and he eats way too much off the buffet while leaving the rest to wait hungry in line with plates. And on account of him being absurdly rich billionaire, he's a lot less acceptable with each passing day.

It bothers me that we never get enough "evil Batman" stories (Dark Knights Metal was a corrective on this admittedly) because at the end of the day a dude with superpowers granted by solar radiation taking over the world isn't gonna happen. Billionaires with a streak of self-righteousness and god complexes however are a major ongoing threat to human civilization in the current century.

To be fair Batlol got his ass handed to him by Prime. So they gave us that. A Batman got beaten by a Superman.

[Prime]

Nah, he was never worth it.

Then why do you keep posting here?

[Quinlan58]

To be fair Batlol got his ass handed to him by Prime. So they gave us that. A Batman got beaten by a Superman.

Aside from Last Stories, that was the only issue of Death Metal I read. And it glorious, so glorious.

[Prime]

Aside from Last Stories, that was the only issue of Death Metal I read. And it glorious, so glorious.

I f*cking love that moment. Best issue of 2020

[Vordan]

Nah, he was never worth it.

And yet you showed up here shilling Val-Zod, so clearly it’s worth something to you.

[SiegePerilous02]

Nah, he was never worth it.

Odd forum to hang out in then

[Powerboy]

After reading about the original plans zack snyder had for justice league aswell as how screwed over superman was and might still get in the upcoming snyder cut https://bleedingcool.com/movies/zack...equel-jim-lee/

Aswell as the news that jj abrahams and coates will helm solely a black superman movie with no plans for anything regarding the traditional superman, it makes me really wonder what the point is in being a fan of superman anymore. Apart from the superman and lois series, there is hardly any good portrayals for superman in the mainstream media. There is still superman is the villian schtick going on relentlessly and if zacks take on the original justice league is proof of anything, supermans sole reason for existance as far as dc and warner bros is concerned is to be used as a tool to help reinforce their love and appreciation for batman.

I will acknowledge that, just because something is not a traditional take does not make it bad. A black take on Superman could be quite good and recapture the whole "ultimate immigrant" concept. I'm far more interested in that than an evil Superman version.

When "Brightburn" came out, some people said they would prefer that it be literally an alternate reality Superman. That would be fine but I would prefer that something like that not be done until we first get a Superman movie. And, yes, I'm implying that MoS and B v S, for all of their good points, do not feature a character that a huge portion of the audience accepts as Superman. Or maybe it's not Superman himself but everything surrounding him that they don't accept. I did admire Superman's ability, in those movies, to be as true as possible to his ideals in a world that certainly does not make it easy.

I would agree that the CW Superman is the closest we have right now to a character that a large section of the audience accepts as being Superman.

In some ways, I have this image of a guy spinning in a circle, with a telescope, trying to see some way to make Superman relevant and acceptable again. Superman is standing behind him. But his spin always causes him to have his back to Superman so he never sees what he's looking for, never gets that the way to make Superman relevant and acceptable is to embrace what Superman is and stop thinking you have to "spruce him up" or modify him or justify him if he is the traditional Superman. You just need a creative team that gets that and doesn't think you need to change him or parody him for it to work.

[Powerboy]

Some good points made.

Some things that I may consider a low point is something someone else thinks was a high point and vice versa.

There have been high points recently. The CW Superman I consider a high point. Some aspects of the movies, I consider high points. "Superman Smashes the Klan" was a high point. Frank Miller's take on Superman's origin wasn't quite as great as I hoped. It certainly didn't do for Superman what DKR did for Batman. But it was very respectful. Then there's the upcoming Superman '78. Based on how well they did Batman '66 and Wonder Woman '77, I think it will be nicely done.

[Robotman]

It’s funny that this thread popped up because I’ve been feeling similarly as of late. I’ll always love Superman but it’s gotten to the point where I’ve pretty much given up on the character being used properly by WB and therefore regaining prominence/significance in pop culture. For years I held out hope that maybe we’d get a great Superman movie or video game that could rejuvenate the character and put him back in his rightful place next to Batman and Spider-Man. But can only take so many gut punches before you have to take a knee and eventually give up.

On the video game front, Injustice has done huge damage to the character. Then we heard that an open world game set in Metropolis with Brainiac as the villain was in the works. We were finally going to get the great Superman game that was rumored for years! Nope. It’s a Suicide Squad game with Kal as a villain.

Some of the recent comic stories have been enjoyable but I seriously can’t stand older Jon Kent as “new and improved Superman”. If he’s going to stick around, make him a kid again and give him his own area to play in. Don’t just make him a more angsty Superman stealing page time from Clark.

WB has never understood Superman as a character. So many failed movies and now a planned reboot that will probably be a think piece that will once again try to tell us what Superman means.

It blows my mind that people don’t think Superman is relevant anymore. The immigrant’s story is always relevant. His arch nemesis is an egomaniacal billionaire industrialist with occasional political aspirations. Clark is a journalist trying to fight for truth against misinformation. His planet was destroyed because its leaders wouldn’t listen to the scientists’ warnings. This is all practically ripped from the headlines.

[manwhohaseverything]

Then why do you keep posting here?

To pass time and look at all the brains melting.That was just poking fun. For people that lack sense of humour.And they say man of steel is bulletproof.

[bat39]

Depends on what you're looking for.

If you can only get 'into' the character if he's DC's No. 1...then you're gonna be disappointed. Batman is DC's No. 1 (actually THE most popular superhero character in the world). Superman is now a close second. A consistently close second I might add...other characters, from DC or Marvel, may temporarily supercede him in terms of pop-cultural relevance, especially if there's a movie or TV show out. But I think ultimately Superman ends up taking back his second spot.

I don't think being the second most popular superhero character and widely acknowledged as the template for the entire genre is too bad in the long haul, after 80+ years.

Then we get down to the question of what is 'good' Superman content. But how do you define that? Most people on this thread wouldn't be able to agree to how Superman should be defined, and this thread represents just a small cross-section of Superman fans, casual and hardcore.

There are people here who'd like to believe that MOS and BvS are universally reviled and widely accepted as being 'bad' Superman adaptations. That is simply not the case. There are others who feel that everything after Siegal/Shuster's work in the Golden Age doesn't count/isn't the 'real' Superman. Again, not true, but its a valid opinion to have. People like (or don't like) single Superman, Superman married to Lois, Jon as a pre-teen, Jon as a teen, trunks or no trunks...the list is endless!

On balance though, if you look at the plus side, we're getting to a point where DC is embracing the 'Multiverse' approach across all media, and we're getting multiple different iterations of Superman and other characters. So whatever is your flavor of Superman, chances are you'll be getting him (or something like him) very soon, if you don't already have it...

[Agent Z]

Nobody can decide when/if to walk away but you.

For myself, my fandom is not contingent on whether the company is currently putting out quality product. If it was, I'd have stopped being a Superman fan long ago. Of course, that doesn't mean I buy whatever crap DC throws my way; I adore Superman but refuse to buy products I don't enjoy, so there have been long stretches of time where DC hasn't gotten any of my Super money. But even if I'm not reading the books or watching the shows I'm still a fan and I keep an eye out for stuff I *do* want. And before long, I always find something worth buying, whether it's a new reprint of older material, a new creative team on the main books, or whatever.

Overall I think things are looking good right now; there's a lot of stuff on the comic side that seems appealing; Red/Blue, the new creative team, that digital anthology that just wrapped up a Superman story that looks downright excellent. Smashes the Klan wasn't that long ago either. Maybe none of that will appeal to you (and I might not end up liking any of it either) but it's more than we've often had in recent years.

I'm not interested in the CW, nor am I interested in any DC film since the vast majority of them are pretty bad. But not too long ago we were all wishing Clark had a tv show again, or was getting a movie from some big name with a solid track record. Maybe what we're actually getting isn't to my taste, but it's better than the great big *nothing* we were getting a year ago, and those projects will find fans, and if they're successful that'll increase the odds of WB/DC making something I'll enjoy. And in the meantime I still have larger media Super stuff to re-watch.

I will say, though, that I hate the "But Clark gets more than X,Y, Z characters!" Yeah. He does. And? He's Superman, the fact that he gets more exposure than other IP's is a given. Other characters need tons more attention than they get...but that applies to everyone not named Batman or Harley, and the fact that the most well known superhero on earth gets one or two more crumbs than lesser known IP's is scant consolation. Nor does this negate the fact that most of the exposure Clark gets is bad, poorly conceived, and not worth the time or money it takes to consume it. What good is a Superman film when it's not worth watching?

But overall, I'm feeling vaguely, cautiously optimistic at the moment. New people are in charge across the board; let's see if they handle things better than their predecessors.

I agree with much of what you say, but I find it questionable to say the least that the majority of Superman output is bad.

The point of acknowledging Superman gets treated better than most is to remind fans that things aren't so bleak. It wasn't that long ago that fans were convinced that WB was through with Superman on the big screen and now there is talk of another movie with Ta-Nehisi Coates involved.

[DragonPiece]

You can always read old comics and media if you don't like current interpretations, but I feel like Superman will always be important.