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  1. #31
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Superman will always be worth it, even if the interpretation that sings to you only exists in your mind. The character is too pure, too primal, to not be worth it. He may one day fade into obscurity, but if his adventures inspire you or bring you joy, then I think that speaks for itself.

    My appreciation for Clark grows each year I get older, so I don't know that I'll ever truly think Superman's not worth my time.

  2. #32
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Superman will always be worth it, even if the interpretation that sings to you only exists in your mind
    wow!You just described me.But,i get my superman from other places and sometime in pieces.
    "A Man's dreams will never die"
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  3. #33
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    wow!You just described me.But,i get my superman from other places and sometime in pieces.
    "A Man's dreams will never die"
    Superman's got such a long, turbulent publishing life that my prior statement will eventually ring true for everyone.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    How dramatic. You said it yourself, there's Superman and Lois series. Then there's the comic. In the future, there will be more. Why are those not enough?

  5. #35
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    How dramatic. You said it yourself, there's Superman and Lois series. Then there's the comic. In the future, there will be more. Why are those not enough?
    Right now, both are Superdad status quo. Some really hate that take so there's nothing for them right now. Those of us who like him may not have liked New 52. There's always a dork age for you favorite heroes. It's the way this industry works.

  6. #36
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    How dramatic. You said it yourself, there's Superman and Lois series. Then there's the comic. In the future, there will be more. Why are those not enough?
    Because we are human and it's never enough.Greed is our base instinct.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  7. #37
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Superman the character. Yes

    Superman the ideal. No

    When Superman just used as a character he is still pretty good. More than any other character Superman doesn't get be just as fun thing that has no meaning there is always some sort of agenda or trying to live up some impossible standard.

  8. #38
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Right now, both are Superdad status quo. Some really hate that take so there's nothing for them right now. Those of us who like him may not have liked New 52. There's always a dork age for you favorite heroes. It's the way this industry works.
    I get hating on forced progression made by company mandate, or if the character is butchered by lowest common denominator including cashing in on trend, but someone who married will eventually have kids unless they decided not to or they're biologically incapable, even then there's adoption. I don't understand not wanting or accepting a story or character progression that makes sense.

  9. #39
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    Superman the ideal.No
    Superman the ideal is overrated.It's basically sunday school church stuff."Be good,be nice" All that mushy stuff.It's boring.People have grown beyond that kind of thought process about good and evil.Also,where is the punching and kicking?dammit!
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  10. #40
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I will say that Superman should enter the public domain and that if Superman becomes PD and officially joins the ranks of Robin Hood, King Arthur, Allan Quatermain and other Public Domain folk-icons, then I think things would change and be different. It's very clear that WB and for that matter DC, have not been good custodians of a character (which they swindled from its creators...Never Forget) and that the time has come for him to become folk property.
    I'm not optimistic about that. We have dozens of Superman variation in other comic book companies and various indie works. Many of them are about evil (or asshole) Superman, some work only as a commentary on DC's Superman, but most of them are just mediocre if not terrible. Would something drastically change if these variations would look like actual Superman? I doubt, we'd probably just get loads of "Superman goes mad" stories.

    And its not like Robin Hood has much to show these days as far as good new stories goes.

  11. #41
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    I get hating on forced progression made by company mandate, or if the character is butchered by lowest common denominator including cashing in on trend, but someone who married will eventually have kids unless they decided not to or they're biologically incapable, even then there's adoption. I don't understand not wanting or accepting a story or character progression that makes sense.
    Some would argue Bruce growing old and dying is natural story progression but they never want to see it. We all have our lines in the sand.

  12. #42
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    DC fails to make Superman more popular in modern age. He was DC's most popular character throughout 20th century. Even the name Superman is synonymous with superhero.

    Supes is one of the most powerful heroes. He was created to do things that no other human can ever do. This also makes it harder to create conflicts for him. So they gave him a weakness.

    But i didnt like how Zack Snyder made Supes kill. Supes was created to do things that no other human can ever do. He was supposed to represent the best of humanity. Making someone who is seen as the best of humanity kill just sends a bleak message to us humans.

    Supes is morally superior to us all. But in terms of motive for doing good, Supes doesnt stand out among large pool of superheroes. This makes people see Supes as a typical good guy.

    The only way to fix Supes is to make him less of a typical good guy. Still a good guy but not typical good guy. Humanizing him more (giving him relationships, fleshing out his character like what types of people he hates and what types of people he would protect, etc...)

  13. #43
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dralokonda View Post
    After reading about the original plans zack snyder had for justice league aswell as how screwed over superman was and might still get in the upcoming snyder cut https://bleedingcool.com/movies/zack...equel-jim-lee/

    Aswell as the news that jj abrahams and coates will helm solely a black superman movie with no plans for anything regarding the traditional superman, it makes me really wonder what the point is in being a fan of superman anymore. Apart from the superman and lois series, there is hardly any good portrayals for superman in the mainstream media. There is still superman is the villian schtick going on relentlessly and if zacks take on the original justice league is proof of anything, supermans sole reason for existance as far as dc and warner bros is concerned is to be used as a tool to help reinforce their love and appreciation for batman.
    Great question OP

    I suppose the first issue is Superman even relevant anymore in this day and age?

    He was born from an age of great turmoil and pain, unlike now where the world is at our fingertips and the worst thing that has happened is Covid and War on Terror (in regards to the middle east and USA).

    Because we are so over informed about everything, there has been a extremely high level of cynicism and that cannot be compatible with the nature of Clark.

    We live in a disenchanted world and heroes like Superman no longer fit, unlike Batman who is cynicism incarnate.

    Batman is the strong man who will sieze power and fix the wrongs without any regard to others (especially in Snyder's vision) while Clark is the peacemaker who is seen as ineffectual until he takes on the mentality of a strong man - this is why elseworlds where he is a tyrant is so compelling.

    Moreover, a savior type no longer fits because the world has become more and more insular where we only care for our kin and ourselves. So a hero that saves others seems hokey and out of date (this is why Superman was so popular during the 40s-50s where people had to think of the common good, as opposed to now where people don't even want to wear a mask to keep the elderly safe).

    Further Superman is not allowed to grow for whatever reason the powers that be will not allow him to grow, he cannot be a caring father and loving husband because a hero is not that. A hero in today's world is a womanizer and forever bachelor, he cannot be a loving father is also seen as weak.

    This is why after Morrison Damian was jettisoned as quick as possible, and Batman is always dipicted as a cruel taskmaster (which gets its origin from DKR). And this is why Jon was aged up.

    Nevertheless, I wish for a time that Superman makes sense, maybe in the future.
    Last edited by charliehustle415; 03-07-2021 at 03:19 AM.

  14. #44
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    Great question OP

    I suppose the first issue is Superman even relevant anymore in this day and age?

    He was born from an age of great turmoil and pain, unlike now where the world is at our fingertips and the worst thing that has happened is Covid and War on Terror (in regards to the middle east and USA).

    Because we are so over informed about everything, there has been a extremely high level of cynicism and that cannot be compatible with the nature of Clark.
    Do you know the word cynisim?it was popularised by diogenes. Batman appeals to people because he is not religious christian morality in the form of strongman suit and a cape.He's not your dad,simply put.The character fundamentally has more things going for it,with the base itself intact.Batman is still just a noir detective character,He can do all the nietzshean shtick and other stuff.Because the character is intact at it's core.what type of character is superman?Can you say?many can't.Superman is a scifi-action heroHeck! it's not even that.The best superman has explored that(religious themes) in terms of philosophical depth is abysmal.The above clip i posted is from fullmetal alchemist.It deals with religion and science.Superman's quandary has never produced anything of that caliber,either.All they do is tear him a part with deconstruction and a philosophical outlook that's antichristian or more importantly church morality like that of batman's nietschean perspective.That's not exploration.That's just, "I don't like it" so i am tearing it apart.If superman had some essence in that regards i would have embraced him,even if i disagreed.

    If the kind of gritty,loner,sad characters are the only thing that sells, then that must be why mcu and it's escapist fantasy characters are doing gangbuster.Must be why,shonen heroes are being embraced world wide.Superman is flying paragon.Dc has tons of other characters with same powerset.They can tell stories easily with other characters.Yet,superman is hard.Why is that?It's not that superman deals with religious themes.It's that superman himself is christ in a strongman suit.That's hard to get across to people.Many find it,paternalistic and boring.There are tons of fun characters.Superman just isn't fun,with or without snyder.The character is meant to be too uptight and he is too tense to have fun.His son on the otherhand atleast can say "I am fun.I am going on an adventure"
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-07-2021 at 03:52 AM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  15. #45
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    what type of character is superman?Can you say?many can't.
    By definition he is the ‹bermensch.

    Yes there are christ like allegorical elements but it is in the eye of the beholder; moreover, if he was so christ like why isn't Superman embraced by church going middle Americans?
    I can't really argue with someone who thinks Superman isn't "fun" because there isn't anything I can point to that would change your opinion because "fun" is purely subjective.

    Nevertheless, I don't agree that the MCU is "escapist fantasy."

    The MCU is cynicism in a candy coating, something palatable for the kiddies.

    9/11 style attack - check
    Patriot Act - check
    Corporate Greed/War Profiteering - check
    Totalitarianism - check
    Genocide - check
    Eugenics - check


    The MCU isn't as escapist as you think it is.

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