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  1. #76
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    That will happen regardless of whether or not Superman is public domain.
    No ,the chances are less.studios and corporate companies are profit driven.a character in public domain can be used by someone with genuine love.it's a creative democracy where diverse spins, ideas can exist at the same time.Any rejection would be done by the audience that are interested in the character.There won't be any middle men like wb to filter pitches.Unlike group of people controlling every aspect of the character.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-08-2021 at 02:26 AM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  2. #77
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    We don't really have much in the way of Lovecraft adaptations so much as we do Lovecraft influences. Honestly, most of the Lovecraftian stuff in film you could do even if it wasn't public domain. Rarely is Cthulhu up on screen. Although that is somewhat changing in the past decade.
    Good point, and its not like Cthulhu could not be easily replaced by some new design and name because his "character" is not really important, important is what his presence signifies.

  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    We have evil Superman stories not because Public Domain leads to such stories, but because there are lots of people who find evil Superman more interesting than regular Superman.
    The reason why you have "evil Superman" is that he was institutionalized as a symbol of American Imperialism and Patriarchy in the '50s and '60s and so on, and as a major corporate logo. Once he goes PD, that baggage would disappear. Even with The Boys, Homelander is a representative figurehead of corporate dominance, more than a riff on Superman.

    Why do you think Superman going PD will change this perception?
    Because again Superman would be free to no longer simply be a figurehead of corporate dominance.

    Would he? He already did Supreme at Image and his Tom Strong can be considered a variation of Superman. Funny how Superman not being in public domain didn't stop him from writing around 50 issues of Superman stories.
    Moore still carries a torch for Superman. Read CINEMA PURGATORIO Issue #16, his last comic series.

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    The reason why you have "evil Superman" is that he was institutionalized as a symbol of American Imperialism and Patriarchy in the '50s and '60s and so on, and as a major corporate logo. Once he goes PD, that baggage would disappear.
    Thats probably one of the biggest reaches I ever saw.

  5. #80
    Frenzied Bedlam Future Odd Rödney's Avatar
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    Superman was the first superhero I ever experienced. In fact, I don't remember not knowing about Superman. I'll always be a fan and it doesn't matter what DC/Warner do now or in the future 'cause I still have some truly excellent Superman stories I can read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    I really hope we will actually get an entire book dealing with this new Mars mutant community. Please don't spoil the potential by ignoring it going forward...

  6. #81
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    I think I'll always be a fan of Superman, or at least the idea of Superman, but I don't feel compelled to support/purchase any Superman story that I don't like. For better or for worse, that means I've saved a lot of money/time lately. The biggest expression of being a Superman fan seems to be posting on this message board...

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    I don't understand this question.. Is Superman worth it? Of course he is. It's why he has lasted for nearly 9 decades and is still instantly recognizable a loved by millions around the world.

    What you mean to say is, Is DC or Warner Bros worth it the time? Not a lot lately, especially with DC. They screw up too often and that's just depressing. They probably miss more than they hit. But when they hit it, it's worth the time. They have really done Superman a lot damage in the last 20 or 30 years, but that's their problem not the character's. When he is done right, it really works.

    It's up to you really if you want to continue to support them. I'm more cautious now. For instance, I'm not supporting the Snyder cut, unless I hear really good things about it from people I trust. Of course the Snyder cult will say wonders about it, we all expect that. They pretty much defend his ideas against all reason.

    I only gave Superman and Lois the benefit of the doubt because I started to see and hear really good things about it. I like it so far, but it's too soon to say this will be a quality Superman series. I need to see how this season ends to give a real opinion.

    So I guess, yes Superman is still worth it, but with caution because the people in power are kind of crap at their jobs.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    I think I'll always be a fan of Superman, or at least the idea of Superman, but I don't feel compelled to support/purchase any Superman story that I don't like. For better or for worse, that means I've saved a lot of money/time lately. The biggest expression of being a Superman fan seems to be posting on this message board...
    I get you. I recently bought a really pretty Superman pendant, and I wear it with pride. I guess I just love the guy too much. And I'm also here talking about the character because I still care enough.

  9. #84
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm in a very dark place Superman wise right now so my feelings are very pessimistic, but I like the answer a few people had here already, that the character is always worth it but WB/DC aren't.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  10. #85

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    I asked myself this question when 5G was rumored to be replacing Clark Kent with Jon, and I said then that if DC went through with it, that after reading & owning every Superman comic book published since 1985 that I would be done.

    The problem isn't with Superman the character - he's endured for 83 years. The problem is with DC, WB, and their perception of the character's viability.

    So to answer the question...yes, I definitely think Superman is worth it. To me he's the greatest fictional character ever created. But as long as the people currently controlling him continue to do so, I can only enjoy the past - not the present. Maybe that says more about me where I am as a fan versus the character or those in charge, but it's what it is.

  11. #86
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    No ,the chances are less.studios and corporate companies are profit driven.a character in public domain can be used by someone with genuine love.it's a creative democracy where diverse spins, ideas can exist at the same time.Any rejection would be done by the audience that are interested in the character.There won't be any middle men like wb to filter pitches.Unlike group of people controlling every aspect of the character.
    Eh, there's something you're forgetting here - there's is and always will be one filter - money. So what if someone with genuine love wants to do a Superman movie? They largely can't afford to do it. How many small, independent productions of Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, Wizard of Oz, or Tarzan are there, really? How many great Peter Pan films since the character fell into public domain? Truthfully, not many. Largely these films are still made by big studios who choose which pitches to take, which directors to go with, and interfere as studios do, and genuine love is no more nor less than any other production. Sure, anyone can theoritically make a small independt film, but frankly they come off as no better than most fanfilms - and honestly, fan-films never take the fandom or world by storm.

  12. #87
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Eh, there's something you're forgetting here - there's is and always will be one filter - money. So what if someone with genuine love wants to do a Superman movie? They largely can't afford to do it. How many small, independent productions of Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, Wizard of Oz, or Tarzan are there, really? How many great Peter Pan films since the character fell into public domain? Truthfully, not many. Largely these films are still made by big studios who choose which pitches to take, which directors to go with, and interfere as studios do, and genuine love is no more nor less than any other production. Sure, anyone can theoritically make a small independt film, but frankly they come off as no better than most fanfilms - and honestly, fan-films never take the fandom or world by storm.
    If a story with the character via book or webcomic or whatever becomes huge via online consumption or similar avenues.Then the chances are it will be automatically picked up by studios with money.It would be like the standard book series movies.I am not saying,small independent creator can pour in money.That was never even possibility.Things do get blownup pretty easy these days.On top of that,you don't need publishing house strictly any more if you are going for something online.The advantage is instead of a studio deciding whether some pitch is worth it.Pitch would already be field tested and script or the plot will be solid.The only concern would be how it's presented on big screen or small screen or mobile screen.

    And as said,the best superman adaptations that had universal praise/ appeal came from outsourced productions picking the character up(Donner movie) and before the character was part of wb, other studios like paramount picked up the liscencing rights.Heck! something like iron giant had no backing by wb.It was the reason I believe Brad bird left.The guy went on to do Incredibles.Heck! There would be animations studios that are better equipped to handle superman,east or west.They could easily pick up the character.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 03-09-2021 at 01:41 AM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  13. #88
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    If a story with the character via book or webcomic or whatever becomes huge via online consumption or similar avenues.Then the chances are it will be automatically picked up by studios with money.It would be like the standard book series movies.I am not saying,small independent creator can pour in money.That was never even possibility.Things do get blownup pretty easy these days.On top of that,you don't need publishing house strictly any more if you are going for something online.The advantage is instead of a studio deciding whether some pitch is worth it.Pitch would already be field tested and script or the plot will be solid.The only concern would be how it's presented on big screen or small screen or mobile screen.

    And as said,the best superman adaptations that had universal praise/ appeal came from outsourced productions picking the character up(Donner movie) and before the character was part of wb, other studios like paramount picked up the liscencing rights.Heck! something like iron giant had no backing by wb.It was the reason I believe Brad bird left.The guy went on to do Incredibles.Heck! There would be animations studios that are better equipped to handle superman,east or west.They could easily pick up the character.
    You say that, but what evidence is there of any of that? Like, it doesn't happen much with other characters. Tarzan gets like a movie every other decade. Dracula gets so-so movies with the occasional gem every 30 years. Peter Pan's best films are the Disney animated picture that's decades older than most of us on this forum I bet and the 90's Robin Williams' picture Hook. Why, why on earth should I believe that Superman will be the exception? That Superman going into public domain will open the floodgates to a slew of new and great content, when that's really not the case for any character in the public domain so far? Only Sherlock Holmes seems to be getting popular works these days, for whatever reason, and it's not like he hasn't had the occasional decade with not much to show for it too. So - why Superman? Why would him going into public domain be where all this changes? Why will he be the one to break the trend of all other public domain characters and really get out there?

    I just can't look at how public domain characters are largely ignored, and then somehow assume that Superman will still be, well, relevant, important, and used. We occasionally get two or three Snow White inspired movies that don't make an impact. We occasionally get a couple of films about Hercules that are forgotten before a year is up. Why should I want this as a fan? How can you tell me that for sure this won't be what becomes of Superman?

  14. #89
    Mighty Member manduck37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    You say that, but what evidence is there of any of that? Like, it doesn't happen much with other characters. Tarzan gets like a movie every other decade. Dracula gets so-so movies with the occasional gem every 30 years. Peter Pan's best films are the Disney animated picture that's decades older than most of us on this forum I bet and the 90's Robin Williams' picture Hook. Why, why on earth should I believe that Superman will be the exception? That Superman going into public domain will open the floodgates to a slew of new and great content, when that's really not the case for any character in the public domain so far? Only Sherlock Holmes seems to be getting popular works these days, for whatever reason, and it's not like he hasn't had the occasional decade with not much to show for it too. So - why Superman? Why would him going into public domain be where all this changes? Why will he be the one to break the trend of all other public domain characters and really get out there?

    I just can't look at how public domain characters are largely ignored, and then somehow assume that Superman will still be, well, relevant, important, and used. We occasionally get two or three Snow White inspired movies that don't make an impact. We occasionally get a couple of films about Hercules that are forgotten before a year is up. Why should I want this as a fan? How can you tell me that for sure this won't be what becomes of Superman?
    Here's the thing though. Public domain characters aren't largely ignored. Studios mine public domain for properties they can use and not have to pay for all the time. You just may not realize it. Dracula is currently in two projects, his own show on Netflix and also the popular Catstlevania anime (also on Netflix). Speaking of Castlevanai, how many games are we up to now? Sherlock has some popular movies as well as two tv series, one British and one American that were on for a while. The show Grimm came about because they specifically found things in the public domain they could use for an action/horror show. Same with Once Upon a Time and it's spinoffs or the acclaimed comic Fables. We have Lovecraft County on HBO Max. Plus Lovecraft is wildly popular in the gaming community, both pen and paper and video games. Public Domain properties are used all the time. Movies are an extremely small lens to view how public domain properties are used.

    We also now live in the age of crowdfunding. Comics, games and movies have all had success in crowdfunding. You don't need a big studio to get the kind of content you want anymore. Lots of creators out there crowdfunding their projects and making a profit.

    There are a lot of comic creators alone who have gone on record saying they want a shot at Superman. Public domain and crowdfunding can make that happen. That doesn't include filmmakers, game studios or whoever else wants a shot at Superman. What makes Superman different? He's wildly more popular, thus why WB/DC try to keep him. Don't want to lose out on those profits. Merchandising alone generates a lot of money. He already has global name recognition and a built in audience. Give fans new content to spend money on and we will. Granted, not all of it will be good. That's really not any different than the quality we have now.

    All that being said, I don't know if public domain is the answer for Superman. I do happen to fall on the side of letting properties enter the public domain though.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    It really depends on what you really mean by getting used. I think that people here want things like Lois & Clark and not a throwaway episode in a show like Once Upon a Time. Examples of games like Castlevania are also not hopeful considering that Dracula often appears only at the very end as a final boss and nobody buys that game because it has Dracula in it. He could easily be replaced by Nosferatu (or different variant) if Dracula was not in PD.

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