Oxford comma--yea or nay?

[Jim Kelly]

This could get ugly, because there seems to be no middle ground with the Oxford comma debate.

For myself, I don't believe in it--although there are exceptions.

One use of the comma is to indicate something has been left out. For example, you can replace "then" in an "if . . . then . . ." statement with a comma. Such as, "If the front door is locked then go around to the back" can also be stated as, "If the front door is locked, go around to the back." "Then" has been left out and a comma takes its place.

So the way that kids will list items might sound like this: "I got in my pocket a frog and two quarters and a baseball card and a pocket knife and a string." But when we get older, we learn that we don't need all the "and"s, so we use commas in place of the "and"s: "I have in my pocket a frog, two quarters, a baseball card, a pocket knife and a string." Since I kept the last "and" in the sentence, I didn't replace it with a comma. To me using ", and" is redundant, because they both do the same job. If I keep the "and" then I don't need the comma.

However, there are some cases where there's a clause, so I want to set off the clause with commas--in which case, a comma could come before the "and." Such as: "I have in my pocket a frog, two quarters, a baseball card, a pocket knife, the one my dad gave me for Christmas, and a string."

[Kirby101]

Rudy Giuliani needed to use one for this tweet.

“How about we keep the Party of Lincoln, Reagan and Trump and the traitors leave.”

[Phoenixx9]

This could get ugly, because there seems to be no middle ground with the Oxford comma debate.

For myself, I don't believe in it--although there are exceptions.

One use of the comma is to indicate something has been left out. For example, you can replace "then" in an "if . . . then . . ." statement with a comma. Such as, "If the front door is locked then go around to the back" can also be stated as, "If the front door is locked, go around to the back." "Then" has been left out and a comma takes its place.

So the way that kids will list items might sound like this: "I got in my pocket a frog and two quarters and a baseball card and a pocket knife and a string." But when we get older, we learn that we don't need all the "and"s, so we use commas in place of the "and"s: "I have in my pocket a frog, two quarters, a baseball card, a pocket knife and a string." Since I kept the last "and" in the sentence, I didn't replace it with a comma. To me using ", and" is redundant, because they both do the same job. If I keep the "and" then I don't need the comma.

However, there are some cases where there's a clause, so I want to set off the clause with commas--in which case, a comma could come before the "and." Such as: "I have in my pocket a frog, two quarters, a baseball card, a pocket knife, the one my dad gave me for Christmas, and a string."

I agree with all you wrote.

[BeastieRunner]

Rudy Giuliani needed to use one for this tweet.

LOL!

But is it perfect as is.

[Jim Kelly]

“How about we keep the Party of Lincoln, Reagan and Trump and the traitors leave.”

Not that I would ever say this exact thing myself, but the sentence construction is the kind of thing I sweat over when I'm writing. I'd probably solve the problem by just using an em dash: “How about we keep the Party of Lincoln, Reagan and Trump--and the traitors leave.” But the nagging little voice from past teachers tells me that using an em dash is cheating. So using proper punctuation, then a comma would do, I think, “How about we keep the Party of Lincoln, Reagan and Trump, and the traitors leave.”

I would say that "and the traitors leave" is a conjunctive clause--it's an independent clause joined to another independent clause with a conjunction. But I'm not 100% sure, thus the sweat. Rudy would have been better off just to rewrite it to avoid the cross meaning. Something like, "How about we keep the Party of Lincoln, Reagan and Trump? And as for the traitors, they can leave."

[CaptCleghorn]

I am for Oxford commas, semi-colons, and two spaces between typewritten sentences.

[Powerboy]

This could get ugly, because there seems to be no middle ground with the Oxford comma debate.

For myself, I don't believe in it--although there are exceptions.

One use of the comma is to indicate something has been left out. For example, you can replace "then" in an "if . . . then . . ." statement with a comma. Such as, "If the front door is locked then go around to the back" can also be stated as, "If the front door is locked, go around to the back." "Then" has been left out and a comma takes its place.

So the way that kids will list items might sound like this: "I got in my pocket a frog and two quarters and a baseball card and a pocket knife and a string." But when we get older, we learn that we don't need all the "and"s, so we use commas in place of the "and"s: "I have in my pocket a frog, two quarters, a baseball card, a pocket knife and a string." Since I kept the last "and" in the sentence, I didn't replace it with a comma. To me using ", and" is redundant, because they both do the same job. If I keep the "and" then I don't need the comma.

However, there are some cases where there's a clause, so I want to set off the clause with commas--in which case, a comma could come before the "and." Such as: "I have in my pocket a frog, two quarters, a baseball card, a pocket knife, the one my dad gave me for Christmas, and a string."

I think you may be over-exaggerating the use of the comma in a way that is very unique.

For me, "very unique" is a term that irritates me because, of course, "unique" means "one of a kind." So "Very unique" must mean there aren't any. I realize it's because people say "unique" when they mean "rare" so then they have to exaggerate and say "very unique" when they mean "unique".

So, anyway, to answer your question after the rant, I was taught to lose the "ands", except at the end, and learn to use commas.

[Jim Kelly]

So, anyway, to answer your question after the rant, I was taught to lose the "ands", except at the end, and learn to use commas.

Well the Oxford comma is when you list things in a series and before the last thing you use a comma (thus the Oxford comma) and you use "and"; e.g. "one, two, three, and four."

For me, I just use "and," no Oxford comma; e.g. "one, two, three and four."

So which is it for you?

Of course, if you use no "and" that could also work: e.g. "one, two, three, four."

The unique situations I was trying to explain don't come up that often. But every now and then, I'm writing something in a series and I feel like there has to be a comma to set off something in the series--so in those cases, then it may appear like I am using the Oxford comma. But since I'm just trying to think this stuff up on the spot, maybe my examples seem over-exaggerated. However, listing things in a series is very common in writing, so Oxford comma/no Oxford comma is a daily thing with me.

[Powerboy]

Well the Oxford comma is when you list things in a series and before the last thing you use a comma (thus the Oxford comma) and you use "and"; e.g. "one, two, three, and four."

For me, I just use "and," no Oxford comma; e.g. "one, two, three and four."

So which is it for you?

Of course, if you use no "and" that could also work: e.g. "one, two, three, four."

The unique situations I was trying to explain don't come up that often. But every now and then, I'm writing something in a series and I feel like there has to be a comma to set off something in the series--so in those cases, then it may appear like I am using the Oxford comma. But since I'm just trying to think this stuff up on the spot, maybe my examples seem over-exaggerated. However, listing things in a series is very common in writing, so Oxford comma/no Oxford comma is a daily thing with me.

Ah, I vaguely remember that discussion in college but I didn't remember it's being called the Oxford Comma.

Most of the time, and do not put a comma before the final "and".

[CaptCleghorn]

In case examples are needed...

[Mister Mets]

This book is dedicated to my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

[Rob Allen]

This book is dedicated to my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

Oh, you beat me to it! I was scrolling down hoping no one had posted that yet.

[Jim Kelly]

The few times that those problems arise, surely one can just avoid them by rewriting the series in a different way. “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.”

[CaptCleghorn]

The few times that those problems arise, surely one can just avoid them by rewriting the series in a different way. “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.”

Putting in a comma which does not always show a need seems much easier than rewriting a sentence.

[Captain Nostalgia]

No, the Oxford Comma is required in my opinion.

Though I agree that your first sentence makes things super clear, the last sentence has too many, and's and sounds redundant.



"I got in my pocket a frog and two quarters and a baseball card and a pocket knife and a string."

That's four ands. Ever hear a young kid describe something using and, and, and and over and over again...it's bloody annoying.




This is more clear and concise and to the point, except you should probably have a comma after pocket though optional.

"I have in my pocket, a frog, two quarters, a baseball card, a pocket knife and a string."