How would you feel if OMD had more serious consequences for Peter?

[phantom1592]

Have there been any consequences for Peter so far? Other than the Kindred stuff, I don't see anything. Aunt May is back alive. He's still with MJ. What have been the downsides? He's not "married" to MJ, but I'm not exactly sure how this is a loss for him. He's together with her in every way... they're technically not married ie: they don't have a marriage document. Loss of a piece of paper isn't a loss.

He lost his kid. It was at least implied that he would have WANTED that child, but because of their decision she doesn't exist now. There may be other children in the future... but THAT super special child is lost now.

[PCN24454]

He lost his kid. It was at least implied that he would have WANTED that child, but because of their decision she doesn't exist now. There may be other children in the future... but THAT super special child is lost now.

I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic here.

[phantom1592]

I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic here.

Quite serious.

He paid a huge price. He doesn't remember it, but Mephisto told him at the time that the cost would be the child that would now not be born and that horrified him. He also gets that 'nagging feeling that something's missing in his life... a hole that can't be filled'.

So yeah, it was a bad deal, and there were consequences. They just aren't front and center all the time. Which is really for the best. I don't want Spider-man getting to be like Hellraiser or anything where his deals with the devil are the basis for his life. But there was a cost and it was a big one.

Then there was the whole 'Renew your Vows' that people loved that showed you exactly what that deal cost him.

[Agent Z]

He lost his kid. It was at least implied that he would have WANTED that child, but because of their decision she doesn't exist now. There may be other children in the future... but THAT super special child is lost now.

Does he even remember the child?

[PCN24454]

He lost his kid. It was at least implied that he would have WANTED that child, but because of their decision she doesn't exist now. There may be other children in the future... but THAT super special child is lost now.

The kid never existed to begin with.

[JTHM]

looks like he considers King in black to be all his fault. Everyone Venom killed...everyone Carnage killed... now all the world is infected... All because he brought the symbiote back in the first place. He calls himself Patient Zero.


So basically the flashpoint moment you're looking for, just not dealing with OMD.

Well, but that's because he doesn't have the full story because Eddie didn't tell him. But Peter isn't really at fault of Cosmic Satan no matter how much you look around it. Even Venom (the Symbiote) acknowledges it in Absolute Carnage. The Grendel already existed before him and would have woken up anyways Venom or not, which was the real starter of the Knull return.

Like, unlike Flashpoint, Peter isn't really at fault of King in Black.

[phantom1592]

Does he even remember the child?

Ehhhh nope. Last I checked he doesn't remember anything about the deal, let alone the consequences.

The kid never existed to begin with.

Not really the point. She would have... now she won't. Same with any general time travel story that ends up erasing the future timeline after the character got to know their future kids. CW Flash went through a whole season where he got to see his future kid and train her and love her... only to see her erased from the timeline. It was heartbreaking. He'll find out eventually, and it'll crush him. The consequence is still a consequence even if you don't realize it. Uusally more so.

Well, but that's because he doesn't have the full story because Eddie didn't tell him. But Peter isn't really at fault of Cosmic Satan no matter how much you look around it. Even Venom (the Symbiote) acknowledges it in Absolute Carnage. The Grendel already existed before him and would have woken up anyways Venom or not, which was the real starter of the Knull return.

Like, unlike Flashpoint, Peter isn't really at fault of King in Black.

True, but then again, neither was Flashpoint really Barry's fault. Thawne went back and changed time. Flash followed to stop him from changing the past. Thawne was always the instigating force here. Not Barry. But Barry got to carry around the guilt for it.

Spidey also isn't 100% wrong either. Everyone Venom killed was on him... everyone Carnage Killed was on him. All the other symbiotes spawned right and left in the 90's who were villains... also wouldn't have been there if he'd never brought that suit to earth. Knull isn't on him... but the other Symbiotes? Yeah... he really was patient zero there.

[Noronha]

Have there been any consequences for Peter so far? Other than the Kindred stuff, I don't see anything. Aunt May is back alive. He's still with MJ. What have been the downsides? He's not "married" to MJ, but I'm not exactly sure how this is a loss for him. He's together with her in every way... they're technically not married ie: they don't have a marriage document. Loss of a piece of paper isn't a loss.

See this completely subjective.
From your point of view marriage is a simple piece of paper, for others it means so much more.
But this is not my point and I´m not even going to entertain a discussion.

That being said, for marvel, and taking a look at the length and troubles they went through just to destroy a "piece of paper" I´d say it means so much more than that, if it's a piece of paper why go through the trouble of creating a whole story just to erase it?

They could've just divorced which is another simple piece of paper and much easier one to obtain.

It´s the classic you can say what you want about the meaning of something but it's your actions that speak louder than words and marvel´s actions concerning the marriage have been pretty loud since the 90s (Clone Saga, Byrne´s run etc).

So, from marvel´s point of view (and taking into account the Peter´s history as a character), which from my pov is the one that counts, making a deal with Mephisto and sacrificing the marriage is a pretty huge consequence.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

It´s the classic you can say what you want about the meaning of something but it's your actions that speak louder than words ...

Got it in one.

That about sums it up. The marriage obviously means a great deal for Marvel if they are willing to utterly sabotage and kamikaze the continuity.

[CrimsonEchidna]

Have there been any consequences for Peter so far?

None. You can twist yourself into a pretzel and claim the imaginary child that was created in the story itself was the consequence but fact that Peter's memories were wiped of the event and then, until the recent teases, never really referenced says a lot.

Like, imagine if they decided to do a story on drunk driving where Peter accidentally killed a kid while driving under the influence. Oh but then time is reset to pretend like it never happened, and then Peter's memories of the event were also erased so he never had to live with the guilt. Oh, but Mephisto remembers at least, but we're also never going to talk about it.

It's only 13 years after the fact that Marvel is finally allowing for some actual narrative payoff to the big storyline that literally defined the last decade+ of Spider-Man comics.

[Noronha]

None. You can twist yourself into a pretzel and claim the imaginary child that was created in the story itself was the consequence but fact that Peter's memories were wiped of the event and then, until the recent teases, never really referenced says a lot.

Like, imagine if they decided to do a story on drunk driving where Peter accidentally killed a kid while driving under the influence. Oh but then time is reset to pretend like it never happened, and then Peter's memories of the event were also erased so he never had to live with the guilt. Oh, but Mephisto remembers at least, but we're also never going to talk about it.

It's been 13 years after the deal and only now is Marvel finally allowing for some actual narrative payoff to the big storyline that literally defined the last decade+ of Spider-Man comics.

How about the 10 years apart from the woman you choose to spend the rest of your life with?
I mean the stories that OMD changed are in the past, "they still happened except they weren't married", but they did marry and they did choose to spend the rest of their lives together, so from 2008 to 2018 they were apart because of the deal.

I mean being apart from the woman you love more than anything is a huge consequence, it doesn't matter if he doesn't remember, he loves her and they weren't together. Deal=being apart. Decision=consequence.

Will there be even more consequences? That's what we're all waiting to find out.

I do agree that that hypothetical child isn't a consequence, but being separated from MJ means he won't be having any children with the woman he loves.

[davew128]

It NEVER made any sense in universe. Had May been asked at the time, I suspect she gladly would have let her life end rather than Peter and MJ's marriage.

[PCN24454]

It NEVER made any sense in universe. Had May been asked at the time, I suspect she gladly would have let her life end rather than Peter and MJ's marriage.

There's something really disturbing about that.

[Noronha]

It NEVER made any sense in universe. Had May been asked at the time, I suspect she gladly would have let her life end rather than Peter and MJ's marriage.

It was never meant to make sense, it was meant to take us from point A to point B, and it did.

If making sense was their priority then MJ should've been the one shot, simple as that.

[Huntsman Spider]

It NEVER made any sense in universe. Had May been asked at the time, I suspect she gladly would have let her life end rather than Peter and MJ's marriage.

There's something really disturbing about that.

Funny enough, there was an issue before OMD where Peter was able to communicate with Aunt May's spirit and she was exhorting him not to let his fear of losing her destroy his own will to live and be happy, or something like that. Might have been the same one where Peter met God Himself (or The One Above All, technically speaking), who outright told and showed him just how much of a positive difference he'd made in so many lives over the years since he became Spider-Man.