Bob Iger diversity

[Username taken]

I know. Of course WW appeals to white dudes, just like Batman appeals to white ladies, but it's nice to have both, right?

Yeah.

And appealing to people isn’t pandering to them which was the original point.

There’s nothing wrong with having characters that appeal to everyone without pandering to a particular group of people.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah.

And appealing to people isn’t pandering to them which was the original point.

There’s nothing wrong with having characters that appeal to everyone without pandering to a particular group of people.

Correct. And if most of the characters start out as white men, who's really being pandered to? Our favorite series aren't going to be destroyed because there's an Asian guy or a black woman as the lead character now

[Derek Metaltron]

Yeah as I said earlier, we should getting people to be inspired by those who aren't like them as much as people they are like. Balance is always the key. I can't appreciate Black Panther as a white guy in quite the same way as a black person might, or Shang Chi as an Asian person or Captain Marvel as a woman, but as long as their characters aren't entirely what they are and as much who they are, that's awesome to me. If Luke Cage, War Machine, Falcon and Black Panther were all played exactly the same way, that would be boring, but they are very different characters who can and should play off each other in ways outside just race.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah as I said earlier, we should getting people to be inspired by those who aren't like them as much as people they are like. Balance is always the key. I can't appreciate Black Panther as a white guy in quite the same way as a black person might, or Shang Chi as an Asian person or Captain Marvel as a woman, but as long as their characters aren't entirely what they are and as much who they are, that's awesome to me. If Luke Cage, War Machine, Falcon and Black Panther were all played exactly the same way, that would be boring, but they are very different characters who can and should play off each other in ways outside just race.

Um, I think I agree with you.

[Derek Metaltron]

Um, I think I agree with you.

Good! Just because I have occasional issues with some ways that diversity is met doesn’t mean I don’t want any. As long as creating quality stories that everyone can enjoy is the core ideal everything else can come naturally.

[CosmiComic]

Good! Just because I have occasional issues with some ways that diversity is met doesn’t mean I don’t want any. As long as creating quality stories that everyone can enjoy is the core ideal everything else can come naturally.

No problem

[godisawesome]

While I don't like the sequel trilogy, I don't see why having a feminist agenda and telling a good story are seen as mutually exclusive. Both can happen

In fact, I would argue that when you get feminism/representation right in action-adventure films, it usually requires telling a good story - thus why Wonder Woman 1 got that extra tasty bit of cool, why Black Panther was an extremely strong movie with a lot of resonance... and why I’d argue TFA and Rogue One were much stronger films than their successors in the era of Disney.

In fact, you can pretty easily argue that the weaker Disney Star Wars films that both divided fans and saw shrinking returns as time went on usually coincided with a greater prevalence of problematic issues - ones that certain fans and demographics noticed in conjunction with those demographics showing up less and less for each film. Disney LFL managed two female-led and highly representative films that outperformed expectations, then saw failure to match those expectations (though still turn a profit) when people started noticing a growing amount of tokenism, toxic gender roles, and a growing reliance on the same old white dude focus from before (though that didn’t guarantee happiness from all - see Luke fans who felt he got shafted for Kylo as well.)

The Sequel Trilogy may be one of the best illustrations that good, substantial representation doesn’t actually exclude audiences, but includes larger audiences... in part because when they moved away from that reoresnatation, they started excluding already engaged fans.

That's cherry picking, though. Kathleen didn't write nor direct any of the Star Wars films people complain about. She did hire Jon and Dave. You're picking and choosing what to give her credit for and that's not how her position even works nor the metrics they likely judge her by. The fact is that she's been behind multiple films/shows, some of which have done very well with the fans and others not so much. However overall she's been very profitable for the company, which is the bottom line.

Kennedy does bear *some* responsibility for how the ST unfolded... but she also does bear *much* credit for how Rogue One got pulled out of a chaotic production into an outperforming monster, and for pulling off the incredibly quick turn-around at LFL once they dropped their original “film-a-year” plan.

Itks important to realize that the majority of the ST’s storytelling problems weren’t realized until well after TFA came out and was unexpected successful beyond an already high prediction. Johnson had already written and conceived pretty much all of TLJ’s story before TFA came out, and Trevorrow got fired and Abrams brought back before TLJ was even released - and with LFL already trying to “correct” from TLJ in some areas.

Yes, Kennedy seems to have either shared or even originated the disastrous focus on Kylo Ren and Adam Driver above everyone else in the story... but she was also “flying blind” about what the ST was shaping into while trying to deal with the massive BTS drama of two separate spin-offs - with Solo itself being more of a mess because the male writer she bribed with greater creative control wound up hating the directors he’d helped pick out. And it’s not like she was the only powerful executive LFL member, or that guys like Pablo Hidalgo and Dave Filoni shouldn’t have piped up a few times to at least make some questions heard.

Considering the chaos of the production schedule, she’s still an all-star producer for the profit she turned out and the adaptability she displayed when things went wrong. No, she’s not another Feige, but no one is.

I still feel the lion’s share of the ST’s problem, particularly regarding representation, goes more to Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams, though strongly in *that* order.

Johnson left a ruin of the progressive ideas and overall narrative of the Saga in his wake in what’s his only bad script thus far, but Abrams could have prevented that with a few less mystery boxes in TFA and a few more stubborn storytelling strikes in TROS. Johnson bears more responsibility because he didn’t have to make Finn a token character in a token subplot and, as difficult as it is to believe, he could have made a less toxic and sexist version of Reylo. Abrams could have cut off some issues by making Rey a Skywalker in TFA or explaining more about Kylo, but by the time TROS came out, he probably would have had to use all his clout to demand the right to go so hard against TLJ it would have seemed even more disrespectful to a film Hollywood had given its seal fo approval to.

[CosmiComic]

This is a good analysis

[80sbaby]

*SNIP*

I pretty much agree with everything you've said here. I don't think KK hasn't made any mistakes but thinking she needs to resign over them ignores her successes and how businesses actually work.

[CosmiComic]

I pretty much agree with everything you've said here. I don't think KK hasn't made any mistakes but thinking she needs to resign over them ignores her successes and how businesses actually work.

Her problem was letting two different directors go in two completely different directions.

But I don't think she needs to be fired.

[Celgress]

Her problem was letting two different directors go in two completely different directions.

But I don't think she needs to be fired.

Speaking of which, The Last Jedi was the best of that flawed bunch IMO. It was also the only truly original movie of the new trilogy. How sad that Disney did not have the courage to see those intriguing narrative threads introduced through to the final movie.

[80sbaby]

Her problem was letting two different directors go in two completely different directions.

But I don't think she needs to be fired.

I'm pissed we didn't just get Jacen and Jaina Solo. They basically did that anyways.

But them not planning out the entire story since they knew they were doing a trilogy doesn't make any sense to me.

[80sbaby]

Speaking of which, The Last Jedi was the best of that flawed bunch IMO. It was also the only truly original movie of the new trilogy. How sad that Disney did not have the courage to see those intriguing narrative threads introduced through to the final movie.

Strong disagree there. I think TLJ messed everything up. I get wanting a new direction and respect that opinion. I just don't agree that's how SW should go. At it's corez the story is pretty classic storytelling. It doesn't need to change. Not the main series, anyways.

[CosmiComic]

I understand they wanted to create their own material.

I liked some of the ideas of TLJ but the execution was unsatisfactory, especially the space battles. Change is good, but it has to be thought through

[godisawesome]

Her problem was letting two different directors go in two completely different directions.

But I don't think she needs to be fired.

If either Abrams or Johnson got to make a three film story themselves, I think they would have been fine. Instead, TLJ sabotaged TFA’s stuff without reading justifying its own take either, and TROS was screwed either way.

Speaking of which, The Last Jedi was the best of that flawed bunch IMO. It was also the only truly original movie of the new trilogy. How sad that Disney did not have the courage to see those intriguing narrative threads introduced through to the final movie.

I hear people say that sometimes, but the only way I respect the opinion is if it’s focused almost wholly on Luke. His story, while I don’t like it, I can respect it.

I have no respect for the trashy writing that occurs with Rey (“She should fall for the Neo-Nazi for no good reason and give the film to the prentious white guy plot!”), the trashy writing that occurs with Finn (“The Child Slave Soldier needs to be taught to think of others!... just not his white girl companion.. aaaaand he needs to not matter to the overall story. At all.”), the trashy writing of Poe and Holdo (“Quick! Make the mature leader dude an idiot ace pilot and botch the ever-loving crap out of a female authority figure to make it clear the writer didn’t think any of this through!”), or the incessantly pathetic Galactic Conflict (“What’s the dumbest, blandest copy of Empire Strikes Bad we can do, even more than TFA copying ANH? I know! A slow speed chase where everyone’s an idiot!”).

And Kylo Ren just flat out became a cancer to the franchise thanks to TLJ. Dude could have been the most topical villain in the history of Star Wars!... instead, he became the patron saint of white male privilege wrecking a storyline.

With Luke, you can tell Johnson had some critical analysis of his own story, some ambition, and talent - Mark a Hamill earned his awards.

But in every other way, TFA is a far better movie because neither it nor TLJ are original (TLJ’s just a hipster instead of a fanboy), but TFA actually has some strong character writing - Finn’s better than anyone else in the entire trilogy in just TFA, and Rey’s never more interesting than she is there.

TLJ being a pretentious bit of man-pain from someone who doesn’t like the operatic elements fo Star Wars was bad enough. Making it a regressive mess was worse.