View Poll Results: Underrated Detective?

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  • Batman (Bruce Wayne)

    0 0%
  • Nightwing (Dick Grayson)

    20 35.71%
  • Red Hood (Jason Todd)

    11 19.64%
  • Red Robin (Tim Drake)

    3 5.36%
  • Robin (Damian Wayne)

    5 8.93%
  • Batwoman (Kate Kane)

    1 1.79%
  • Huntress (Helena Bertinelli)

    1 1.79%
  • Batgirl (Barbara Gordon)

    3 5.36%
  • Orphan (Cassandra Cain)

    2 3.57%
  • Spoiler (Stephanie Brown)

    4 7.14%
  • Azrael (Jean-Paul Valley)

    0 0%
  • Batwing (Luke Fox)

    0 0%
  • Signal (Duke Thomas)

    3 5.36%
  • Catwoman (Selina Kyle)

    0 0%
  • Commissioner James Gordon

    3 5.36%
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  1. #31
    Incredible Member Light of Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    am I the only one who feel it's pretty.....disingenuous to say Dick is "underrated"? like, I don't feel like there are very many appearances where he's not portrayed to be that far off from Bruce in just about every area. like at worst he's portrayed as not being the literal best but I don't think I've ever really seen him portrayed as being anything less than an exceptionally smart or a notably capable detective. but then again, somehow Tim has three votes even though DC consistently highlights he's effectively the One-Above-All of detectives. still, it's just weird that he would have more votes over someone like Jim Gordon or Huntress or Stephanie Brown other than picking based on popularity over thoughtful consideration.
    He has the most detective feats after Bruce yet fans and sometimes writers treat him as happy-go-lucky jock. When comparing feats vs appreciation, I think it's obvious that Dick's detective skill doesn't get enough respect that he deserves.

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  2. #32
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    Someone please post the cover of Ace figuring out Bruce and Dicks secret identities

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    Duke easily. the dude's intelligence has been one of his defining traits since his inception, his detective skills and his leadership were practically his power before he developed actual powers. the thing is, with writers like Hill, because he's the "family meta" his personality and skillset gets tossed or watered down due to minimization in order to focus on just his powers and/or so others continue to shine over him. then there are the subsect of older fans who refuse to acknowledge him as anything other than "boring" or capable of anything, and the tumblr types that are stuck on this weird mami-esque straightman persona for him where he's essentially the "in over his head normie" shaking his head with his hands on his hips as Batfamily's black friend.
    I think the main problem with Duke is that he doesn't get much focus and consistency in general, which has him kind become the everyman since he simply lacks consistent traits that are easily recognizable.

    And that he is now often part of teams with older more experienced characters also doesn't help.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batnbreakfast View Post
    Someone please post the cover of Ace figuring out Bruce and Dicks secret identities

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    While I definitely agree that Dick is very underrated, I think Steph is the most underrated - too often in the fandom treated like a cute, fun, wisecracking and utterly useless mascot. She's nowhere near the best detective, but she has a brain and skills and those are very frequently completely disregarded.
    Completely agree, this is my answer
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  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Okay so whoever has the least page time and the most stereotyped in fandom is it

    I hesitate to say Dick because he's had and will have enough page time to prove fandom wrong

    That said, when it comes to fandom, it doesn't matter what canon said, because fandom is about picking and choosing what they like.

    It doesn't matter how many times Dick's detective skill is shown, if fandom prefer him to be the sexy bisexual big brother and Damian's mom... then that will be the role given to him in any fan material or conversation.

    Same with everyone else.

    If fandom want Duke to be the straight man, it doesn't matter his real personality and wide arrange of abilities, he will be the commentator.

    and so on and so forth.

    So I'm gonna ignore the fandom for now and ask the more important question, do the writers have this problem as well, when, and how often?
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 03-12-2021 at 01:14 AM.

  7. #37
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    If we talking just based off in-canon portrayal, my stance is largely the same; with Dick and "underrated" not even being in the same area code, and Duke's detective skills typically being overlooked. I will say, sticking purely to canon, Duke's issue (as aahz pointed out) is mainly due to lack of overall showings and the fact that Duke's leadership and emotional intelligence (when written well) are his more prominent traits. he only egregious downplaying of Duke's intelligence/detective skill, and general capability, remains his time in Hill's Outsiders.

    so I would probably say the most underrated detective in-canon is probably Steph Brown
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    am I the only one who feel it's pretty.....disingenuous to say Dick is "underrated"? like, I don't feel like there are very many appearances where he's not portrayed to be that far off from Bruce in just about every area. like at worst he's portrayed as not being the literal best but I don't think I've ever really seen him portrayed as being anything less than an exceptionally smart or a notably capable detective. but then again, somehow Tim has three votes even though DC consistently highlights he's effectively the One-Above-All of detectives. still, it's just weird that he would have more votes over someone like Jim Gordon or Huntress or Stephanie Brown other than picking based on popularity over thoughtful consideration.
    I agree. Calling Dick underrated in most any facet is disingenuous — irrespectively so of any frustrations one might have regarding the character — as there isn't much empirically underrated about Dick Grayson that isn't considerably more applicable and relevant for many other Bat Family and DC characters in general who have to fight to even get fandom acknowledgement in the first place. It is also symptomatic of the location and culture of where such opinion are being given.

  9. #39
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    The thing with Dick is, even if writers might play down his capabilities, they are usually still are regularly trying to hammer down that he is the most amazing hero ever, so that kind of balances out.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    The only egregious downplaying of Duke's intelligence/detective skill, and general capability, remains his time in Hill's Outsiders.
    That's the problem with putting a new teen age character on a book, with old adult established characters.
    Having him be more competent than the adults makes him look like a "Mary Sue", and if he is just the "Tagalong kid" it is hard for him to shine.

    And that's a problem that Duke will have in almost every possible team up at the moment, only way around it would be for him to get his own book (or if they would bring We Are Robin back).

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    If we talking just based off in-canon portrayal, my stance is largely the same; with Dick and "underrated" not even being in the same area code, and Duke's detective skills typically being overlooked. I will say, sticking purely to canon, Duke's issue (as aahz pointed out) is mainly due to lack of overall showings and the fact that Duke's leadership and emotional intelligence (when written well) are his more prominent traits. he only egregious downplaying of Duke's intelligence/detective skill, and general capability, remains his time in Hill's Outsiders.

    so I would probably say the most underrated detective in-canon is probably Steph Brown
    Duke’s new. He’s not underrated, he unestablished. He lacks awareness in general. Dick on the other hand has the tenure, has the feats, yet isn’t generally regarded or rated as a top tier detective. That’s the definition of being underrated. But that’s what happens when they divvy up general bat character traits as personal character traits.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 03-12-2021 at 06:45 AM.

  11. #41
    Fantastic Member L.H.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Duke’s new. He’s not underrated, he unestablished. He lacks awareness in general. Dick on the other hand has the tenure, has the feats, yet isn’t generally regarded or rated as a top tier detective. That’s the definition of being underrated. But that’s what happens when they divvy up general bat character traits as personal character traits.
    This.
    Also, Dick himself sometimes said Tim is better than him, in canon. I've always thought he was just proud of his "little brother", but a lot of people use this to claim Tim better than Dick, and this sucks.
    Plus, people keep saying that Thing about Ra's referring only at Tim as Detective, but that's not true, cause he did the same with Dick. Looks like the popular opinion about Tim and Dick's detective's skill is more importante than canon, and this sucks. We know his history, and It doesn't make sense erase it to make Tim look better.
    They're all detectives, after all.

  12. #42
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Duke’s new. He’s not underrated, he unestablished. He lacks awareness in general. Dick on the other hand has the tenure, has the feats, yet isn’t generally regarded or rated as a top tier detective. that’s the definition of being underrated. But that’s what happens when they divvy up general bat character traits as personal character traits.
    this is the biggest cap. Dick at worst just isn't regarded as the literal best detective, not being regarded as the best of the best of the best doesn't make him underrated; it just mean he's not one of the best. but even with that, again, DC consistently is hammering how perfect at everything Dick is, including his detective skills. I get you are a Dick fan, but him and underrated (in terms of what's on the page) have never met; let alone is he more underrated than anyone in this list not name Tim Drake or Bruce Wayne.
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  13. #43
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    not being regarded as the best of the best of the best doesn't make him underrated; it just mean he's not one of the best.
    Except he was on the best. Something made plain and explicitly stated on numerous occasions up through at least the 80s. And now he's downgraded - and underrated for what he was, as they act as though he never had the numerous skills he had.

    DC consistently is hammering how perfect at everything Dick is, including his detective skills.
    That isn't remotely true. He's often treated and second-rate at best, and when with other detectives tends to come in behind them. He's also been downgraded in numerous other ways. The detective thing is most noticeable with Tim, but other aspects are visible in so many ways. Especially when he's with Bruce, but then everyone suffers from that.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 03-12-2021 at 11:20 AM.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    this is the biggest cap. Dick at worst just isn't regarded as the literal best detective, not being regarded as the best of the best of the best doesn't make him underrated; it just mean he's not one of the best. but even with that, again, DC consistently is hammering how perfect at everything Dick is, including his detective skills. I get you are a Dick fan, but him and underrated (in terms of what's on the page) have never met; let alone is he more underrated than anyone in this list not name Tim Drake or Bruce Wayne.
    And we get that you're a Duke fan, but stop shifting the goalposts here. The poll isn't "who is the least well-known detective", it's who fans believe to be the most underrated detective in any context, new or old characters. Duke isn't underrated imo because he doesn't have a lot of feats to back up such a title, unlike Dick, or Jason, or half the characters on this list. In order to get that, writers need to be interested in writing him, which to be honest, not a lot are outside of Synder.

    DC isn't constantly "hammering in" that Dick is perfect, that's an exaggeration of Dick's treatment in-Universe, especially when DC has downplayed his intelligence, skills and connections to the DCU at large for years. For someone who has read pre and post flashpoint Dick Grayson, it's jarring.

  15. #45
    Incredible Member Light of Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post

    So I'm gonna ignore the fandom for now and ask the more important question, do the writers have this problem as well, when, and how often?
    Well, the thing is, the sad thing is, not every writer can write detective plot. Let alone detective plot with multiple characters as detectives. So I'm kinda uncomfortable to blame writer for the character's lack of detective feats. But for characterization as detective I think :

    Dick: Put Bruce, Tim, or Babs with him, he will be dumbed down. His detective skill shines the most when he's with his titans friend.
    Jason: On almost every single Batfamily content, he will be dumbed down into sarcastic short-minded violent punk. Ironically, his detective skills shines the most when he clashes with Batman.
    Tim: Don't see any problem except writer's stupidity *cough*Bendis*cough*.
    Damian: Same problem with Jason, but since he's the baby of Batfamily, I guess it's kinda inevitable.
    Steph: Same problem with Dick, kinda worse for her since unlike Dick most DC writers only see her as Tim's girlfriend.

    Don't know about the rest of them, sorry.

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