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  1. #46

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    I'm clueless at this entire list.. lol.. what?!?

    Machinesmith... uh, I thought he had become a robot at some point?

    Electro? Uh.... proof? NO!! No proof... uh... just how did you come to this conclusion?

    I think the important thing with villains is to establish their personalities, regardless of their romantic interests..

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    I'm clueless at this entire list.. lol.. what?!?

    Machinesmith... uh, I thought he had become a robot at some point?

    Electro? Uh.... proof? NO!! No proof... uh... just how did you come to this conclusion?

    I think the important thing with villains is to establish their personalities, regardless of their romantic interests..
    Yes, Machinesmith is a machine himself. But he's still gay. Just as Vision, despite being a machine, is heterosexual. I'm not sure why Machinesmith - who started as a human in the first place - being gay would be so much less believable than various other artificial lifeforms being straight.

    Electro's bisexuality came from a comic where he went to a shape-shifting prostitute and asked her to take Spider-Man's form, saying he learned some things about himself in prison.

  3. #48
    Mighty Member Joe Acro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overlord View Post
    Well it could make him more interesting, make him seem like a human being, rather then just a stereotypical villain. Look at say Mr. Freeze, they made him more interesting when they gave him a wife, he went from a one dimensional villain to an actual fully fleshed out character. Why do most super villains have to be guys who seem have no life outside of robbing banks and trying to kill the hero, isn't that kinda of boring after 50 years? I would supporting exploring villains in relationships more often in general, be it gay or straight, it makes them seem more like real people and less like cartoonish bad guys. Heck didn't Stan Lee introduce the idea that Marvel character should feel like normal human beings, why should that apply only to the heroes and not the villains?
    On the one hand, yes, I'm all for making villains more interesting. I've always felt Absorbing Man and Titania being a couple made them more interesting characters. So, if someone wanted to write a story that includes Electro in a relationship--swinging either way he chooses--I'd be fine with that. But it wasn't originally presented that way--almost more like a flippant remark--and feels like an extraneous add-on as a result.

  4. #49

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    My take on Vision and Jim Hammond: both of them (albeit with the help of some retcons, more or less) have been established to be these big-deal ‘synthezoids’, with functional synthetic duplicates of human organs from top to bottom, including (the male) sex organs.

    With Machinesmith ‘uploading his brain engrams’ (or however that works) to a (presumed) “pure robot form”, I’d figure he looks like a Ken doll underneath his clothes—not to mention there being no other internal mechanisms that relate to sex.

    As for other “straight” robot folk- I think it’s debatable how much if any, of their “romantic” interests have to do with sex vs. simply being programmed to seek a ‘mate’ or assimilating to the notion based on the observation of humans- e.g., Ultron and his “brides” Jocasta and Alchema.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    My take on Vision and Jim Hammond: both of them (albeit with the help of some retcons, more or less) have been established to be these big-deal ‘synthezoids’, with functional synthetic duplicates of human organs from top to bottom, including (the male) sex organs.

    With Machinesmith ‘uploading his brain engrams’ (or however that works) to a (presumed) “pure robot form”, I’d figure he looks like a Ken doll underneath his clothes—not to mention there being no other internal mechanisms that relate to sex.

    As for other “straight” robot folk- I think it’s debatable how much if any, of their “romantic” interests have to do with sex vs. simply being programmed to seek a ‘mate’ or assimilating to the notion based on the observation of humans- e.g., Ultron and his “brides” Jocasta and Alchema.
    He doesn't have to have genitals to be gay. There are gay people who choose to not have sex whatsoever.

  6. #51
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Thomas View Post
    Do you think everybody here should be required to expose their sexuality? I mean, is there a reason everybody should, other than getting a count? What purpose would
    it serve here, and what purpose does it serve in comics that are mostly good guy vs bad guy? We aren't talking about romantic comics here. They are more action/
    adventure with a splash of life thrown in, not explorations of intimate relationships. The small amount of personal content is only there to add a sense of realism to the books.
    It's not the central idea of this type of comic; the action is. Everything else is window dressing. I don't see why anybody would even be satisfied if a long-time character in
    one of these books is just gay all of the sudden, when it's obvious that it's pandering and the easy way to temporarily appease some people. It doesn't solve anything, and
    alienates the groups on these boards even more. Just one more thing to argue back and forth about.
    The thing is society (all society) works on the idea of straight privilege. Straight characters don't need to "signpost" their sexuality because everyone assumes a character is straight until otherwise stated. The problem is LGBT characters NEED to express their sexuality, because otherwise they are assumed to be straight. If that makes sense?

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    My take on Vision and Jim Hammond: both of them (albeit with the help of some retcons, more or less) have been established to be these big-deal ‘synthezoids’, with functional synthetic duplicates of human organs from top to bottom, including (the male) sex organs.

    With Machinesmith ‘uploading his brain engrams’ (or however that works) to a (presumed) “pure robot form”, I’d figure he looks like a Ken doll underneath his clothes—not to mention there being no other internal mechanisms that relate to sex.

    As for other “straight” robot folk- I think it’s debatable how much if any, of their “romantic” interests have to do with sex vs. simply being programmed to seek a ‘mate’ or assimilating to the notion based on the observation of humans- e.g., Ultron and his “brides” Jocasta and Alchema.
    Why wouldn't he give himself genitalia? He's a master robotocist in a world with human-like robots. There's no reason he couldn't give himself genitalia. And since he was gay as a human, that orientation would continue in any form he successfully uploads his personality to.

  8. #53
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Porker View Post
    Good that you're bringing up Wiccan and Hulkling, because despite my wish for representation of the LGBTQ community, I have zero interest in these two. Don't get me wrong, I think it's awesome that they exist and I have nothing bad to say about their characters.
    The problem is that the focus is on their relationship and sexuality most of the time while every other aspect about them is disposable or simply not equally important, which is something that doesn't matter with supposedly heterosexual characters.
    When I read comics with them, I feel like instead of reading a story I'm only reading this sentence over and over again: "Look, they are gay. We made a gay couple here."
    I'm not trying to be harsh, I appreciate that Marvel is trying. I simply am not that interested in them, because this is the feeling I get about them.
    Another good example is Batwoman. A lot of fans complained that suddenly everything was about her sexuality and that the story suffered from that.
    I can't speak for them, because I didn't read Batwoman, but from what I read I get what they're saying and can only agree.
    I massively disagree about this one. "Season 1" didn't even out them till near the end, and Teddy had a major arc about his Kree/Skrull heritage (not linked to his sexuality). His Skrull heritage is also the focus of the YA/Run Secret Invasion arc. Avengers: Children's Crusade was all about Wiccan's relationship to the Scarlet Witch. Gillen's run focuses on them as a couple (like every other major straight couple gets to do), but it was about Wiccan being the Demiurge, about Loki's games, about Hulkling's struggle to still be a superhero, about his councelling over who he is and whether he was a construct of a spell. The fact Gillen didn't hide or shy away from them being gay doesn't mean it's "all they are about."

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiamatty View Post
    I haven't read the original Young Avengers stuff. But that's not the impression I got from Children's Crusade. And it sure as hell wasn't what I got from Gillen's run - he treated them the same way heterosexual couples are treated.
    THIS!!! 100%

  9. #54
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    I'm clueless at this entire list.. lol.. what?!?
    Machinesmith... uh, I thought he had become a robot at some point?




    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    Electro? Uh.... proof? NO!! No proof... uh... just how did you come to this conclusion?


    He picks Spiderman.

  10. #55
    spit and hades! Andru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat Thomas View Post
    Do you think everybody here should be required to expose their sexuality? I mean, is there a reason everybody should, other than getting a count? What purpose would
    it serve here, and what purpose does it serve in comics that are mostly good guy vs bad guy? We aren't talking about romantic comics here. They are more action/
    adventure with a splash of life thrown in, not explorations of intimate relationships. The small amount of personal content is only there to add a sense of realism to the books.
    It's not the central idea of this type of comic; the action is. Everything else is window dressing.
    I don't see why anybody would even be satisfied if a long-time character in
    one of these books is just gay all of the sudden, when it's obvious that it's pandering and the easy way to temporarily appease some people. It doesn't solve anything, and
    alienates the groups on these boards even more. Just one more thing to argue back and forth about.
    Is that really all you take away from the stories you read, just good guy vs. bad guy with a splash of realism?

    Not sure what comics you are reading, but I much prefer the personal growth of the characters I read than if they beat the good guy or vice versa.

  11. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flatman View Post
    He doesn't have to have genitals to be gay. .
    he does have to have 'sex organs' of some kind, to be one way or another.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kieran_frost View Post
    the thing is society (all society) works on the idea of straight privilege. Straight characters don't need to "signpost" their sexuality because everyone assumes a character is straight until otherwise stated. The problem is lgbt characters need to express their sexuality, because otherwise they are assumed to be straight. If that makes sense?
    qft!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  13. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    he does have to have 'sex organs' of some kind, to be one way or another.
    First, there's no reason to believe he doesn't have working genitalia.

    Second, no, he doesn't need them to be gay. He identifies as male. He's attracted to men. Therefore, he's gay. Not exactly a complex concept.

    And even if he doesn't have functioning genitalia, even if he's functionally asexual - he can still be gay. Asexuals can still have romantic attractions to other people. An asexual man who's romantically attracted to other men is still gay.

  14. #59
    CBR's Good Fairy Kieran_Frost's Avatar
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    A helpful list of LGBT superheroes and villains I've compiled over the years; to help the debate along.

    MAIN CHARACTERS
    AMERICAN ACE [Perry Wade], from All Winner's Squad
    ANOLE [Victor Borkowski]
    BENJAMIN DEEDS
    BLING! [Roxanne ‘Roxy’ Washington]
    BLOKE [Mikey Tork] (Peter Milligan’s X-force) [DECEASED]
    BLOODSTONE [Cullen Bloodstone]
    CAPTAIN FLAME [Frank Cortez], from All Winner's Squad
    CLUSTER, the female Fantomex
    DAKEN [Daken Akihiro]
    DESTINY [DECEASED]
    FANTOMEX [Jean-Phillipe/Charlie-Cluster 7]
    FIRELORD [Pyreus Kril], Herald of Galactus
    FLATMAN [Dr. Val Ventura], Great Lake Avengers
    FREEDOM RING [Curtis Doyle] [DECEASED]
    "GAMBIT" [Remy leBeau]
    GRAYMALKIN [Jonas Graymalkin]
    HERCULES
    HIROIM [I]THE OLDSTRONG, Warbound [DECEASED]
    HULKLING [Theodore ‘Teddy’ Altman]
    JACKPOT II [Alana Jobson] [DECEASED]
    JENNIFER KALE [DECEASED]
    JOYSTICK [Janice Olivia Yanizeski]
    KARMA [Xi’an Coy Mahn]
    KAROLINA DEAN
    KORG, Warbound
    LIGHTSPEED [Julie Powers]
    LIVING LIGHTNING [Miguel Santos]
    LOKI LAUFEYSON, God of Mischief
    MACHINESMITH [Samuel ‘Starr’ Saxon]
    MULTIPLE MAN [James Arthur 'Jamie' Madrox], Madrox’s gay dupe
    MANKILLER [Katrina Luisa vanHorn]
    THE 'MIGHTY' DESTROYER [Roger Aubrey] ~ Golden Age ~ [DECEASED]
    MISS AMERICA CHAVEZ
    MOONDRAGON [Heather Douglas]
    MYSTIQUE [Raven Darkholme]
    NOH-VAR
    NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier] MAINSTREAM COMIC'S FIRST OPENLY GAY CHARACTER!!
    PHAT [William Robert ‘Billy-Bob’ Reilly] [DECEASED]
    PHYLA-VELL [DECEASED]
    PRODIGY [David Alleyne]
    "PSYLOCKE" [Elisabeth 'Betsy' Braddock]
    RAWHIDE KID [Johnny Clay]
    RICTOR [Julio Esteban Ricter]
    SHATTERSTAR [Gaveedra-7]
    SKEIN [Sybil Dvorak]
    SPYMASTER [Sinclair Abbot]
    STACY-X [Miranda Leevald]
    STRIKER [Brandon Sharpe]
    SWORDSMAN II [Andreas vonStrucker] [DECEASED]
    THUNDRA
    TWO-GUN KID [Mark Hawk]
    UNION JACK [Brian Falsworth] ~ Golden Age ~ [DECEASED]
    "VALKYRIE" [Brunnhilde]
    Ms. Victoria Hand [DECEASED]
    VIVISECTOR [Myles Alfred] [DECEASED]
    WICCAN [William ‘Billy’ Kaplan]
    ???Xavin???

    ALTERNATE REALITIES
    ANGEL [Werner Worthington] (Earth-311)
    BEAST [Dr. Hank McCoy] (Earth-763)
    Gen. James Howlett, X-treme X-men
    HERCULES (X-treme X-men) [DECEASED]
    INERTIA [Edith Freiberg], (Earth 31916) Supreme Power
    SPIDERWOMAN [Mary Jane Watson]
    SUNFIRE [Mariko Yashida] (Earth-2109) [DECEASED]
    Ult. COLOSSUS [Peter Rasputin]
    Ult. NORTHSTAR [Jean-Paul Beaubier]

    SIDE CHARACTERS
    Dr. Annabelle Rigg, Fearless Defenders [DECEASED/KIND OF]
    the Ameri-moms, the two mothers of Miss America Charez [DECEASED]
    Amy Chen, Silver Sable's Wild Pack
    Arnie Roth, childhood friend of Captain America [DECEASED]
    Chili Storm, from Millie the Model
    Christian Frost, Emma Frost's brother
    Courier, a man in a female's body (SEE BELOW)
    Finch & Marcus, black married gay couple, friends of Kate Bishop in L.A.
    Frenchie,Moonknight's friend and helicopter pilot
    Gabriel Shepherd, 500 year old mutant from Brian Wood’s X-men, friend of Pixie
    Hector, one of the Pantheon
    Jane Smythe - WHO????
    Jazinda, daughter of the super-skrull K'lrt
    Kyle Jinadu, Northstar's husband
    Marlo Chandler (Jones), wife to Rick Jones
    Max Modell, from Superior Spiderman (his partner is named Hector)
    Ren Kimura, Inhuman
    Shinobi Shaw, son of the Hellfire Club's Sebastian Shaw [DECEASED]
    Switch - WHO???
    Timothy Cababa, Iron Man
    Tong, transgender, participated in Moloids collective crush on She-Hulk
    Twitchy - WHO????
    Wally Layton & Donald Meland, married couple (a cop and a doctor) from Scarlet Spider

    NOT CONFIRMED
    BLIZZARD [Donald ‘Donny’ Gill]
    MAGGOT [Japheth]

    AND...
    Ms. Lion, a male dog who gets dressed as a female :wink:

    N.B. Gambit is included for having the first LGBT kiss in comics:

    Gambit/Courier (with the latter in female form), Gambit #24, Jan 2001

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member
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    image too large to put on here but spidey did kiss Jameson

    http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3...jamesonct9.jpg

    and the thing too

    http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...thing_kiss.jpg

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