Scarecrow - an A-list Villain?

[I'm a Fish]

I don't think the general public doesn't considers Scarecrow an A list villain, even after Arkham Knight.

I don't consider him A list in the comics. That doesn't mean I think he's not a cool villain, but he's just kinda one note for me I guess.

[Captain Nostalgia]

Historically Scarecrow has been an A list villain....though I recognize things change with each generation.

He was always featured in cartoons from the Challenge of the Super Friends & Super Powers Galactic Guardians cartoon, as well as Batman the animated series. ...And of course he was in the Batman movies.

Poison Ivy in contrast didn't become an A list villain until the 90's with the Poison Tomorrow comic book, her duet with Harley in the Batman Animated Series cartoon, and than finally the 1997 Batman & Robin film... though I probably like her a bit more than Scarecrow.

[Citizen Kane]

Scarecrow has always been an A-lister for me. The costume, the theme, the conflict—it's all there. I just wish more writers would have the courage to craft a Scarecrow storyline.

My absolute favorite Scarecrow story shows up in No Man's Land:





I think this tale perfectly encapsulates who Scarecrow is, and why he is a villain that should be feared. The brilliant psychotherapist is on full display here, and we get to see that the character has depth beyond his gimmick and costume, although both help round out his overall theme. This arc really solidified why I think Scarecrow is an A-list villain, and it's a shame there aren't more Scarecrow stories like it.

[prepmaster]

Scarecrow has always been an A-lister for me. The costume, the theme, the conflict—it's all there. I just wish more writers would have the courage to craft a Scarecrow storyline.

I think this tale perfectly encapsulates who Scarecrow is, and why he is a villain that should be feared. The brilliant psychotherapist is on full display in this little story, and we get to see that the character has depth beyond his gimmick and costume, although both help round out his general theme. This story really solidified why I think Scarecrow is an A-list villain, and it's a shame there aren't more Scarecrow stories like it.

Scarecrow is a villain that doesnt even own his own gimmick. Other criminals are afraid of Batman more than Scarecrow. In fact, its Batman who is Scarecrow's biggest fear. Joker, Bane, Penguin and other Gotham rouges are not afraid of Scarecrow.

[Citizen Kane]

Scarecrow is a villain that doesnt even own his own gimmick. Other criminals are afraid of Batman more than Scarecrow. In fact, its Batman who is Scarecrow's biggest fear. Joker, Bane, Penguin and other Gotham rouges are not afraid of Scarecrow.

Which says more about the writers than it does about the concept of Scarecrow.

[prepmaster]

Which says more about the writers than it does about the concept of Scarecrow.

Ruling people through fear is something villains do everyday without the need of fear gas.

Scarecrow relies on his fear gas while other villains dont.

[Citizen Kane]

Ruling people through fear is something villains do everyday without the need of fear gas.

When done right, there a lot of themes that can be explored with a character like Scarecrow; unique themes that lay untouched by other figures in Batman's rogues gallery. Joker is chaos; Bane is pain; Riddler is obsession—all niches that each character fits into like a puzzle piece—each one forming its own matrix of fear. To the ignorant writer, Scarecrow may seem like just another Sinestro—a figure of power that commands others through fear. While many writers have followed this path, I'd argue that Scarecrow represents a more particular niche; a niche that, while being a form of fear, separates itself by cozying up into its own nook that is a pocket of the general concept of fear (similar to the niches I already mentioned and their relations to the concept of fear). In short, Scarecrow is trauma—not just fear, but trauma. I believe this niche is something that Scarecrow is in a unique position to explore more thoroughly and much more interestingly than can be done with Batman's other rogues.

And as to your edit, this is why I like the No Man's Land Scarecrow arc so much. It showed that Scarecrow can instill terror in others even when he's armed with only his words. Making Scarecrow's fear gas a crutch that boosts him to the level of his super-powered peers is just a gaff of the uninspired writer.

[Mutant God]

Ruling people through fear is something villains do everyday without the need of fear gas.

Scarecrow relies on his fear gas while other villains dont.

But the gas/fear formula is his life's work, his reason of becoming a villain is his experiments and research. Also Crane has multiple times change his costume to make it more terrifying.

[prepmaster]

In short, Scarecrow is trauma—not just fear, but trauma. I believe this niche is something that Scarecrow is in a unique position to explore more thoroughly and much more interestingly than can be done with Batman's other rogues.

I believe stories where Scarecrow preys on Batman's trauma have already been done. Inflicting trauma onto others? Joker has done more to Batman & his underlings than Scarecrow can ever do.

The Trickster once said, when villains want to scare each other, they tell Joker stories. Joker is more feared than Scarecrow.

Scarecrow can make hundreds of people afraid of him but when it comes to Batman, Scarecrow isnt gonna win against him. Scarecrow isnt gonna make Batman traumatized and afraid of Scarecrow.

What exactly is the conflict between Batman & Scarecrow? Fear vs Fear?

Im gonna quote from Confuzzled

With Joker, it's a conflict of order and chaos, with the Penguin, it is responsibility vs. corruption, with Two-Face it is the dark knight rising vs. the white knight falling, with the Riddler it is the World's Greatest Detective vs. the World's Greatest Puzzle Maker, with Catwoman it is Repression vs. Liberation etc.

[Alan2099]

Scarecrow was featured in Happy Halloween Scooby Doo, and Batman didn't even appear.

This also makes Scarecrow the only Batman villain that has directly encountered Elvira. That has to count for something.

[Citizen Kane]

I believe stories where Scarecrow preys on Batman's trauma have already been done. Inflicting trauma onto others? Joker has done more to Batman & his underlings than Scarecrow can ever do.

This is a good point, and it brings up a trend that I've very much disliked. I think this is a good time to clarify how I think about these characters and where I stand when I'm making these posts. Now, this seems to have started with Snyder and was further cemented by Johns in Three Jokers, but there is a recurring theme being molded by writers at DC that Joker has an obsession with Batman, and Batman specifically. This has lead to a sharp change in the way Joker has been written, giving rise to the "mass-murder Joker". This version of Joker commits atrocities abroad for the sole purpose of spiteful torture on Batman's mind. This obsession has also given rise to the narrative that Batman and Joker are almost intrinsically linked: two sides of the same coin so closely related they might as well be cosmic brothers—the Cain and Abel paradigm. As a result, you see this common trope in the comics where the Joker tries to cause as much pain and trauma to Batman as he can. And I can see how easy it is to accept this as the "proper" interpretation of Joker. However, I don't agree with this interpretation at all, and in fact, I very much dislike it and find it unnecessary.

As you may have noticed in my previous posts, I'm talking from a standpoint where I try to speak about what I believe to be the best possible version/vision of a character, regardless of the way they are written in the comics. With this in mind, we can begin to understand why I think Joker has always been an agent of chaos. Let's look at Alan Moore's Killing Joke: I very truly believe that many writers after him have completely misinterpreted the purpose of Moore's characterization of the Joker, leading to a misinformed, disingenuous, bastardized version of what Moore had created. So, we all know the story: we learn of his traumatic past, and he goes on his violence spree. Right there is where we see the disconnect between Moore and the writers after him. They only saw the violent, murdering Joker, and few reasoned to ask why it was happening at all. That's why Moore gave Joker's backstory—the one bad day. And from his past as a comedian to the sadistic clown that came after, there was one theme that was apparent throughout: the big joke. By the end of the story, we come to realize that the Joker sees the world around him as a big joke full of pretenders wearing masks, and that deep down, everyone is like him—they just need that one bad day. I think both Paul Dini and Christopher Nolan understood this concept well and applied it to their respective media to great acclaim. And we can see again and again in that media that The Joker gets a kick out of the people who don't see things the way he does. The more someone fights his worldview, the harder he tries to give them that "one bad day" he thinks they need. It's why he harps on Batman so often. He knows Batman just needs that littllllle push. And in his world, chaos would rule. Therefore, Joker is an agent of chaos.

Now, with this out of the way, I think we can understand why I think Scarecrow represents trauma, and why I think he is best suited to tackle this theme. While he does have some stories that have him exploring some of Batman's traumas, like in Kings of Fear, restricting him to being another Batman obsessed psycho is unintuitive and lazy. Unfortunately, similar to what has been done with The Joker, what we get from DC writers is just a cartoonish, goofy version of Scarecrow that is laughably neutered to being just a guy with a mask and some scary gas, more akin to comedy relief than a real villain—a clear indication of the biases of the writers. Again, it's why I think very fondly of the Scarecrow arc in No Man's Land. Finding refuge in a dilapidated church, Scarecrow plots to further his research into the human mind by instilling fear on the church populace, armed only with his wits and his words, and document the results—simple, clear, and effective—no need for silly gimmicks. It really is the best Scarecrow arc where we can see the terror he causes, and its a showcase for what he can do that other Batman rogues simply can't.

And as to your edits, I find that many villains don't have to be direct threats to the titular character to be interesting. Scarecrow only needs to terrorize one person to defeat Batman. And a man that can do that with only his words is quite interesting indeed.

[I'm a Fish]

This is a good point, and it brings up a trend that I've very much disliked. I think this is a good time to clarify how I think about these characters and where I stand when I'm making these posts. Now, this seems to have started with Snyder and was further cemented by Johns in Three Jokers, but there is a recurring theme being molded by writers at DC that Joker has an obsession with Batman, and Batman specifically. This has lead to a sharp change in the way Joker has been written, giving rise to the "mass-murder Joker". This version of Joker commits atrocities abroad for the sole purpose of spiteful torture on Batman's mind. This obsession has also given rise to the narrative that Batman and Joker are almost intrinsically linked: two sides of the same coin so closely related they might as well be cosmic brothers—the Cain and Abel paradigm. As a result, you see this common trope in the comics where the Joker tries to cause as much pain and trauma to Batman as he can. And I can see how easy it is to accept this as the "proper" interpretation of Joker. However, I don't agree with this interpretation at all, and in fact, I very much dislike it and find it unnecessary.

As you may have noticed in my previous posts, I'm talking from a standpoint where I try to speak about what I believe to be the best possible version/vision of a character, regardless of the way they are written in the comics. With this in mind, we can begin to understand why I think Joker has always been an agent of chaos. Let's look at Alan Moore's Killing Joke: I very truly believe that many writers after him have completely misinterpreted the purpose of Moore's characterization of the Joker, leading to a misinformed, disingenuous, bastardized version of what Moore had created. So, we all know the story: we learn of his traumatic past, and he goes on his violence spree. Right there is where we see the disconnect between Moore and the writers after him. They only saw the violent, murdering Joker, and few reasoned to ask why it was happening at all. That's why Moore gave Joker's backstory—the one bad day. And from his past as a comedian to the sadistic clown that came after, there was one theme that was apparent throughout: the big joke. By the end of the story, we come to realize that the Joker sees the world around him as a big joke full of pretenders wearing masks, and that deep down, everyone is like him—they just need that one bad day. I think both Paul Dini and Christopher Nolan understood this concept well and applied it to their respective media to great acclaim. And we can see again and again in that media that The Joker gets a kick out of the people who don't see things the way he does. The more someone fights his worldview, the harder he tries to give them that "one bad day" he thinks they need. It's why he harps on Batman so often. He knows Batman just needs that littllllle push. And in his world, chaos would rule. Therefore, Joker is an agent of chaos.

Now, with this out of the way, I think we can understand why I think Scarecrow represents trauma, and why I think he is best suited to tackle this theme. While he does have some stories that have him exploring some of Batman's traumas, like in Kings of Fear, restricting him to being another Batman obsessed psycho is unintuitive and lazy. Unfortunately, similar to what has been done with The Joker, what we get from DC writers is just a cartoonish, goofy version of Scarecrow that is laughably neutered to being just a guy with a mask and some scary gas, more akin to comedy relief than a real villain—a clear indication of the biases of the writers. Again, it's why I think very fondly of the Scarecrow arc in No Man's Land. Finding refuge in a dilapidated church, Scarecrow plots to further his research into the human mind by instilling fear on the church populace, armed only with his wits and his words, and document the results—simple, clear, and effective—no need for silly gimmicks. It really is the best Scarecrow arc where we can see the terror he causes, and its a showcase for what he can do that other Batman rogues simply can't.

And as to your edits, I find that many villains don't have to be direct threats to the titular character to be interesting. Scarecrow only needs to terrorize one person to defeat Batman. And a man that can do that with only his words is quite interesting indeed.

You could argue the Joker getting obsessed with Batman to that extent is natural character progression for his character since he can't make Batman crack, no matter what he does.

I guess it's just hard to picture Scarecrow as an A lister when it's the effects of his fear toxin on different heroes that drive a majority of his stories, not Scarecrow himself. Usually the visuals of what terrifies the heroes is the cool part, and after they snap out of it they see Scarecrow and just sort of go " Pesky bee! *swat* "

(Side note, I haven't read too many scarecrow comics and my opinion is mostly based off of cartoons. But even from this thread it sounds like the comics aren't much different.)

[prepmaster]

Again, it's why I think very fondly of the Scarecrow arc in No Man's Land. Finding refuge in a dilapidated church, Scarecrow plots to further his research into the human mind by instilling fear on the church populace, armed only with his wits and his words, and document the results—simple, clear, and effective—no need for silly gimmicks. It really is the best Scarecrow arc where we can see the terror he causes, and its a showcase for what he can do that other Batman rogues simply can't.

And as to your edits, I find that many villains don't have to be direct threats to the titular character to be interesting. Scarecrow only needs to terrorize one person to defeat Batman. And a man that can do that with only his words is quite interesting indeed.

I mean you can make other people afraid of you if you threaten them with death or pain. You dont need a lot words to scare people really.

That No Man's Land arc does not have a normal setting in Gotham. Its easier to make people panic in times of crisis. Scarecrow would not be able to roam free around in a church if Gotham was normal as usual. The fact that Scarecrow was allowed to roam free around is somewhat questionable.

[Citizen Kane]

You could argue the Joker getting obsessed with Batman to that extent is natural character progression for his character since he can't make Batman crack, no matter what he does.

This can be argued, but I have yet to see an arc that really bridges the gap between The Killing Joke Joker and this mass-murder Joker. Right now, the claim is there is no difference in personality from there to now, even though there is an obvious contrast from the Moore Joker to the Snyder Joker. In the end, it just shows an oversight from DC editorial that is just being hand-waved away as something it's not.

I guess it's just hard to picture Scarecrow as an A lister when it's the effects of his fear toxin on different heroes that drive a majority of his stories, not Scarecrow himself. Usually the visuals of what terrifies the heroes is the cool part, and after they snap out of it they see Scarecrow and just sort of go " Pesky bee! *swat* "

(Side note, I haven't read too many scarecrow comics and my opinion is mostly based off of cartoons. But even from this thread it sounds like the comics aren't much different.)

Yeah, this is an effect of lazy writing.

[Mutant God]

What exactly is the conflict between Batman & Scarecrow? Fear vs Fear?

Im gonna quote from Confuzzled

Courage vs Fear, Action vs Terror, Hope vs Despair - I'm just guessing really