Batman: Reptilian by Garth Ennis and Liam Sharp

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't think I would be able to remotely tolerate Billy Butcher without Karl Urban playing him

Karl's Butcher at least gets called out by the narrative and treated as the douche that he is.

Ennis' Butcher is a self righteous bastard, the typical 'Manly man who makes the hard choices' who never gets called out and humiliates most everyone who tries to call him into account

[SiegePerilous02]

Karl's Butcher at least gets called out by the narrative and treated as the douche that he is.

Ennis' Butcher is a self righteous bastard, the typical 'Manly man who makes the hard choices' who never gets called out and humiliates most everyone who tries to call him into account

This is exactly why I sort of liked him in the show (also due to Urban just being inherently likeable), at least so far in the first season. Haven't seen the second yet.

I've flipped through a trade or two in the book store, and seen some scans online, and I feel comfortable thinking comic Butcher isn't someone I'm going to be able to stomach.

[hairys]

I'm very unsure how that doesn't come off as being easily offended, when the character was created to inspire people to join the war, by someone who actually served in the war, and was liked by actual soldiers during the war, meanwhile he never experienced the war or what the world was actually like during that time, since he was born in the 70's.
I don't see it as any different than a white person getting offended for minorities over something they either didn't care about or liked, like when Speedy Gonzalez was considered offensive to the Mexican community and got banned from appearing in Looney Tunes shorts despite the character being popular among Mexicans.
I don't see the difference here

You make a really good point, thank you.

To play devil's advocate a bit on behalf of Ennis, I think he would say actual soldiers are a very small minority of the comics readership and that it's no surprise that young men in the midst of war would read comics as a form of temporary escapism if nothing else. The question is more about the 99% of readers who never served reading about superheroes punching enemy combatants in war. Is that disrespectful? I'm conflicted, meaning I think maybe it is. The actual real tales of war (or tales inspired by real events) are compelling enough (see countless examples in Ennis' work) without having costumed heroes with superpowers intervening in it. All I know is I love me realistic war comics like Charley's War, The 'Nam, Blazing Combat, etc and I would not be able to get into any war comics with superheroes in them that maybe trivializes real war.

I think that's essentially what Ennis is getting at. YMMV of course.

[Metro]

You make a really good point, thank you.

To play devil's advocate a bit on behalf of Ennis, I think he would say actual soldiers are a very small minority of the comics readership and that it's no surprise that young men in the midst of war would read comics as a form of temporary escapism if nothing else. The question is more about the 99% of readers who never served reading about superheroes punching enemy combatants in war. Is that disrespectful? I'm conflicted, meaning I think maybe it is. The actual real tales of war (or tales inspired by real events) are compelling enough (see countless examples in Ennis' work) without having costumed heroes with superpowers intervening in it. All I know is I love me realistic war comics like Charley's War, The 'Nam, Blazing Combat, etc and I would not be able to get into any war comics with superheroes in them that maybe trivializes real war.

I think that's essentially what Ennis is getting at. YMMV of course.

It isn't what he's getting at, not at all.
Ennis very transparent, and what he means doesn't go any deeper than the fact he doesn't like it, and therefore it's bad and offensive.
Of course even it that was what he meant doesn't make his stance any less petty and childish, since no one who reads a Captain America comic unless they're under the age of 7 thinks any of it is real, and the idea it's disrespectful is nothing but laughable

[SiegePerilous02]

It isn't what he's getting at, not at all.
Ennis very transparent, and what he means doesn't go any deeper than the fact he doesn't like it, and therefore it's bad and offensive.
Of course even it that was what he meant doesn't make his stance any less petty and childish, since no one who reads a Captain America comic unless they're under the age of 7 thinks any of it is real, and the idea it's disrespectful is nothing but laughable

I think he's also sick of the superhero genre dominating the comics scene, perhaps at the expense of genres he likes. Which can have some understandable merit, but for the war genre specifically, is there much of an audience for them in modern times?

If Cap didn't have a costume, I doubt we'd hear a peep out of him about Steve Rogers.

[hairys]

I think he's also sick of the superhero genre dominating the comics scene, perhaps at the expense of genres he likes. Which can have some understandable merit, but for the war genre specifically, is there much of an audience for them in modern times?

If Cap didn't have a costume, I doubt we'd hear a peep out of him about Steve Rogers.

Hard to say as basically nobody writes them and truth be told, very very few writers would be able to write them well anyway. It's a lost art in comics.

As far as I know, relatively recent movies like Dunkirk, Zero Dark Thirty, and Inglorious Basterds did fine at the box office. So you never know.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Hard to say as basically nobody writes them and truth be told, very very few writers would be able to write them well anyway. It's a lost art in comics.

As far as I know, relatively recent movies like Dunkirk, Zero Dark Thirty, and Inglorious Basterds did fine at the box office. So you never know.

That's because they're movies, with actors we hear and watch, etc.

Comics are a completely different medium, that register to the human mind as things, more often than not. The only real advantage is that super powers basically give you an unlimited budget.

[hairys]

That's because they're movies, with actors we hear and watch, etc.

Comics are a completely different medium, that register to the human mind as things, more often than not. The only real advantage is that super powers basically give you an unlimited budget.

Eh, you never know until you try. And it's not just war comics but other genres, too. It's hard to believe that superhero comics making up 90% of the USA-created market is the appropriate amount. But unfortunately, the major publishers like DC don't feel like experimenting, hence all the Batman books, for example. If the Big 2 *did* make a major effort to expand into other genres, they would probably find success.

Manga has more genre diversification and is kicking everyone's butt.

[FFJamie94]

I'm buying this purely because Sharp has become one of my favourite artists. His work on Green Lantern made that book feel like a monthly treat, I'm just sad it's over.

[Hypo]

Issue #4 variant by Declan Shalvey

[John Venus]

Karl's Butcher at least gets called out by the narrative and treated as the douche that he is.

Ennis' Butcher is a self righteous bastard, the typical 'Manly man who makes the hard choices' who never gets called out and humiliates most everyone who tries to call him into account

TBH, I don't see how 'hard men who makes hard choices' are any less toxic than your average superhero and it's just as pervasive in pop culture. Superheroes gets deconstructed pretty regularly (and rightfully so) but I think pop culture hasn't even scratched the surface of deconstructing the 'hard man' archetype.

[The Cool Thatguy]

TBH, I don't see how 'hard men who makes hard choices' are any less toxic than your average superhero and it's just as pervasive in pop culture. Superheroes gets deconstructed pretty regularly (and rightfully so) but I think pop culture hasn't even scratched the surface of deconstructing the 'hard man' archetype.

That's true,m but the live action Butcher gets called out more than his comic counterpart ever did, which was my point

[SiegePerilous02]

TBH, I don't see how 'hard men who makes hard choices' are any less toxic than your average superhero and it's just as pervasive in pop culture. Superheroes gets deconstructed pretty regularly (and rightfully so) but I think pop culture hasn't even scratched the surface of deconstructing the 'hard man' archetype.

Agreed, and it also helps that superheroes are not real and never going to be real. So they are never going to be dangerous to anybody whereas emulating the "hard men" can lead to some very dangerous stuff.

[Vordan]

This is so insanely messed up lmao. Sharpe’s design for “Junior” is fantastic in how disgusting it is.

[FFJamie94]

Loving the series so far and the artwork is amazing.

My only gripe is I wish it was a little brighter. I know it’s a dark comic, but I sometimes struggle to see what’s on the page.