What Do All Star Squardon Fans Think of Young All Stars?

[Timothy Hunter]

Both Young All Stars and Infinity Inc. were good ideas that didn’t live up to their potential in the least, and were then picked at/apart by other writers for spare parts.

Why do you think Infinity Inc didn't live up to it's potential?

[maxax]

I'd agree honestly, the characters themselves are good, and I would have wanted to see more of them, but the series suffered from editorial interference a lot, Fury's entire backstory having to be changed, all of the parents got written out and some of the most enjoyable scenes were Infinity Inc. interacting with the JSA, there was a subplot with Brainwave Jr. leaving the team for mental illness (I assume, based on later character arcs) related reasons that was just scrapped before it saw completion because an artist added him to a Crisis group shot. Reading it through is very much an experience in 'I wonder what would have happened if DC hadn't dragged the story into all these events'.
Plus I know Rick, Beth and Yolanda are probably the most popular out of the characters rn because of Stargirl, but the cast was already stuffed to bursting when they joined the team. Then Mister Bones was added, and I like Mister Bones, but at that point it was just too many characters. If the series had just stuck to the original 8 members for longer it would have felt tighter.

[DrNewGod]

Why do you think Infinity Inc didn't live up to it's potential?

IMO, it's two things:

First, and this is soundly on Thomas, they were not given strong motivations for taking up their folks "trade" from the beginning. Jade and Obsidian had some raison d'etre rooted in discovering their origins, but the others were mainly "ya know, just 'cause."

Second, the Crisis ripped the heart out of them. On their own world, InfInc had a niche as The Next Gen Of Heroes, and they lost that distinctive role once they were shoved into E1. Yes, they still had their links to the JSA, but essentially all of the previously E1 characters retroactively became the JSA's successors after Crisis. That's before even considering that DC's (at the time) immensely popular Teen Titans kind of had that Next Gen position sewed up. InfInc just became one more superteam.

[Sutekh]

For the Young All-Stars, I loved that Arn Monroe was kind of a dick, as very un-Superman-like as possible. It meant that this would not just be a Justice League pastiche, but go to very different places, tonally. And yes, I'm aware that the least likable member of the team was probably my favorite, but hey, some people like Guy Gardner, who's like the patron saint of d-bags, so nyah!

I thought Dan the Dyna-Mite operating out of the shadow of his mentor was a neat concept, sort of a what sort of choices would Robin have made, what sort of expectations would he have faced, if he kept on adventuring in a post-Batman world. I liked that the ex-sidekick was the experienced voice on this team, despite his relative youth. It made for a neat twist, as 'the young character' is most stereotypically the brash newcomer or kind of impetuous (like Garfield Logan on the Teen Titans), and yet here, we've got one who is the world-wearied grizzled mentor who's seen it all, despite being younger than some of his peers!

I wanted to like Flying Fox and Fury, but felt like there were missteps with both. The whole dark Fury rage-monster thing did not appeal to me (hey, women can't handle power, y'all, in case you didn't get the message with the way Marvel was treating Jean Grey and Wanda Maximoff!), and Flying Fox just felt dated, even for the time, the magical native trope with inconsistent 'mysterious' powers.

But gosh, Neptune Perkins bored the crap out of me. Tsunami was everything he was and so much more, not just powers-wise (because she was so totally the Mera to his Aquaman, a step above, power-wise), but also in angst-y period-relevant story potential with the Nisei angle.

[Jim Kelly]

It's just one man's opinion, but I really loved INFINITY, INC. I loved it before Crisis and I loved it just as much after Crisis. So it didn't fail me. Roy came up with a lot of great ideas throughout the run--and then when he was forced out--other writers came along and picked up fragments and exploited them for their own purposes. Look, Neil Gaiman took Lyta Trevor, her involvement with Hector Hall (the Sandman), and the baby they had and built a lot of his SANDMAN run around that. Other writers used Mr. Bones for the D.E.O. James Robinson exploited other ideas for his STARMAN run. Skyman's story influenced STARS AND S.T.R.I.P.E. Jade and Obsidian were used for GREEN LANTERN and other titles. Nuklon (a.k.a. Atom Smasher) was a key player in the JSA title.

[TMACE]

I think Young All-Stars had two problems-editorial interferrence and the artists kept changing.

I had the pleasure of speaking to Roy Thomas at a convention several years ago (what a thrill, a true gentleman) and he told me that originally the All Star Squadron was suppossed to continue to exist after COIE in a pocket universe (like Superboy). Then, from what I remember reading over the years the plans changed and Roy Thomas only found out that DC was getting rid of the multiple earths after the fact. Also, the comic was going to be called the new All Star Squadron but then got changed to the Young All Stars. At one point, DC didn't even want him to feature the JSA on the covers (one cover that featured GL in particular). Although I liked Young All Stars, even as a kid I could tell his heart just wasn't in it anymore. Also, I couldn't understand why if Arn Monroe was suppossed to replace Superman why he didn't appear until 1942!

I also seem to remember a lot of artists coming and going.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on that. It's too bad. All Star Squadron really got me interested in comics.

[Jim Kelly]

I remember a lot of the talent that Roy Thomas brought in for the art were new--anyway they were new to me. That was the great thing about him--he was always giving new talent a chance and finding artists that showed promise. Not only did he give Jerry Ordway a break, he brought in Todd McFarlane, as well. Then, of course, these new guys would be in demand, leave, and Roy would have to scout for more new talent.

[Timothy Hunter]

It seems that a lot of people are in agreement that All Star Squadron, Infinity Inc, and Young All Stars ran out of steam. Is this common for Roy Thomas' other works?

[Nomads1]

It seems that a lot of people are in agreement that All Star Squadron, Infinity Inc, and Young All Stars ran out of steam. Is this common for Roy Thomas' other works?

That's not quite what I read here. What I read was that Roy was promissed something, delivered some of the best work of his carreer (in All-SS and Infinity Inc), then had the rug pulled from under him, and tried his best to make do with what was left to him. Roy has always delivered his best in his works, and, for me at least, his best has always been some of the best I've read in my long life as a comicbook reader (I've been reading since the mid-70's). His Avengers, X-Men, West Coast Avengers, FF, Shazam, All-Star Squadron and Infinity Inc are all among my all-time favorite runs. So, even if I don't agree, at all, with your basic assessment, my answer to your question would have to be: No! IMHO, Roy's work is always worth checking out, and top notch. I hope I didn't sound rude. It was not my intent, but written messages not always carry well tone.

Peace

[DrNewGod]

It seems that a lot of people are in agreement that All Star Squadron, Infinity Inc, and Young All Stars ran out of steam. Is this common for Roy Thomas' other works?

That's not quite what I read here. What I read was that Roy was promissed something, delivered some of the best work of his carreer (in All-SS and Infinity Inc), then had the rug pulled from under him, and tried his best to make do with what was left to him. Roy has always delivered his best in his works, and, for me at least, his best has always been some of the best I've read in my long life as a comicbook reader (I've been reading since the mid-70's). His Avengers, X-Men, West Coast Avengers, FF, Shazam, All-Star Squadron and Infinity Inc are all among my all-time favorite runs. So, even if I don't agree, at all, with your basic assessment, my answer to your question would have to be: No! IMHO, Roy's work is always worth checking out, and top notch. I hope I didn't sound rude. It was not my intent, but written messages not always carry well tone.

Peace

I'm pretty much with Nomads1 on this. My sole caveat being that Thomas could have better job of giving InfInc's charter roster more compelling motivations for entering "the family business." His work on the titles was first rate, right up to the point where he had to adapt it to changes to the point of distorting it.

[DrNewGod]

I think Young All-Stars had two problems-editorial interferrence and the artists kept changing.

I had the pleasure of speaking to Roy Thomas at a convention several years ago (what a thrill, a true gentleman) and he told me that originally the All Star Squadron was suppossed to continue to exist after COIE in a pocket universe (like Superboy). Then, from what I remember reading over the years the plans changed and Roy Thomas only found out that DC was getting rid of the multiple earths after the fact. Also, the comic was going to be called the new All Star Squadron but then got changed to the Young All Stars. At one point, DC didn't even want him to feature the JSA on the covers (one cover that featured GL in particular). Although I liked Young All Stars, even as a kid I could tell his heart just wasn't in it anymore. Also, I couldn't understand why if Arn Monroe was suppossed to replace Superman why he didn't appear until 1942!

I also seem to remember a lot of artists coming and going.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on that. It's too bad. All Star Squadron really got me interested in comics.

I always thought it funny that after being denied use of The Superfriends Plus Green Arrow, Thomas launched YAS with antagonists that were basically, The Superfriends Plus Green Arrow.

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Now I don't know that this was Thomas' middlefinger at upper management, but I can't help suspecting.

[M L A]

Why do you think Infinity Inc didn't live up to it's potential?

COIE kinda ruined the book. From a more meta perspective the JLA ended up being the JSA's successors too and Teen Titans is a more popular group of teenagers, making them doubly redundant. From a storytelling perspective, COIE seemed to throw Roy off and he wasn't quite sure what to do with the book since the JSA was a big part of the book. IMO he also needed a younger co writer or something or at least stop trying to give them hip dialogue.

Also compared to Claremont's X Men and Wolfman's NTT, I feel like character interactions kinda lacked? Like Wolfman put in a lot of effort into Dick & Kory in the first 4-5 years and Hector & Lyta just kinda paled in comparison. I'd say Hank and Jade kinda sucked in comparison too but those two seemed like they were supposed to come off as Horny College Freshman's First Big Relationship ™. Then there was wasted potential in other character interactions like Todd's interactions with Hector and Hank, as he's pretty similar to both of them but didn't get along with either of them. Especially how Hector didn't like him either and was jealous of him having powers, and Hank doing what he did with Fury (ie proving Todd right about him). It was like Roy'd just skim the surface and then just move on with the plot.

The most enjoyable issues for me were the more character focused ones with the 4 JSA brats and Obsidian's origin issue, as it was really heavy on Jade and Obsidian's relationship prior to being heroes. With most of the team knowing each other prior to being heroes you'd think they'd try to make that the big thing that sets it apart from the other teams.

All that said, I still enjoy Infinity Inc and think the characters have been wildly mishandled ever since the book was cancelled, and I'm hoping Stargirl continues to use them well and hoping DC follows suit.

[Jim Kelly]

As far as I'm aware this series was looked at as a disapointment.

As a long time D.C. reader and fan, I count myself lucky if an announced title actually gets published and put out on the stands. So many times, titles never make it that far. And if they do, they can be pulled after only one or two issues. Short runs are the norm.

So from my perspective, YOUNG ALL-STARS, INFINITY, INC., ALL-STAR SQUADRON were all highly successful titles. They had long runs for being D.C. books.

Maybe others feel disappointment because they are looking at them from the perspective of Marvel Comics, where even fourth tier characters can get long runs. But as a D.C. follower, I've learned to live on crumbs.

I never felt let down by any of these titles. I'd live through seeing RIMA cancelled after only seven issues, STRANGE SPORTS STORIES cancelled after six, BLITZKRIEG after five, MAN-BAT after two, DYNAMIC CLASSICS after one--with LEGENDS OF KING ARTHUR (featuring Redondo art), THE VIXEN (Bob Oksner co-created) and SORCEROR (Michelinie and Layton) never seeing the light of day.

[TimberWolf]

I loved and have the entire series.

[VDCNI]

Overall i really enjoyed it, not as much as All Stars or Infinity but it holds together pretty well, with only the last few issues not up to much.

I think it's weak points are a lack of recognisable characters and sometimes an over dependence on the reference points he used. Stories like The Dyzan Inheritance are overloaded with retelling classic science fiction novels.

Art wise Murray and Blair were both distinctive and visually exciting but there were too many fill ins from weaker artists.

As others have said Infinity Inc was blown off course by Crisis, after that they were just another super group at a time when DC had quite a few running around.