Batwoman #34 Discussion *Spoilers*

**InformationGeek** · 08-21-2014, 06:24 AM

So ah... Anyone want to discuss what happened this issue? (I gave it an 8 out of 10)

I mean, this was rather big. The breakup of Kate and Maggie (also Kate maybe becoming a vampire, but that isn't as big). I'm sure people have some rather strong thoughts and opinions on this. I thought was handled as best as it could be and I thought the comic did as a good of a job as it could with making it look how hard it was for Kate to do what she did, but still. Any thoughts on this development?

**Shimbo** · 08-21-2014, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by InformationGeek

So ah... Anyone want to discuss what happened this issue? (I gave it an 8 out of 10)

I mean, this was rather big. The breakup of Kate and Maggie (also Kate maybe becoming a vampire, but that isn't as big). I'm sure people have some rather strong thoughts and opinions on this. I thought was handled as best as it could be and I thought the comic did as a good of a job as it could with making it look how hard it was for Kate to do what she did, but still. Any thoughts on this development?

Well, I'm definitely conflicted. I love Kate and Maggie together. I think having the only open lesbian female lead character in a comic series in a gay relationship is huge for mainstream comics. I think Kate and Maggie work together. However, it seems like with the new "the Unknowns" direction, spending half of every issue on Kate's personal life isn't really possible anymore. I also feel like, looking back at that Batman Eternal teaser image that came out last November, this may have been editorially driven for a certain story in Eternal. That's neither here nor there, I guess.

I definitely teared up reading Kate's letter, but this relationship is definitely not over. Some creative team will come along and put them back together. In the mean time though, it'd be cool to see Kate date other people (cough Renee cough), but it'd be equally as cool to continue to develop Kate as a sister, as a daughter, as a mentor, and as a superhero vigilante. The latter seems to be where the next arc will take us. I like Andreyko's writing and look forward to following Kate in her new direction, but I just can't help but feel that this separation is editorially mandated, despite Andreyko's best to make it appear organic. Whatever, bring on the Demon and establishing Kate in the scheme of Gotham and the broader N52 and I'll be happy. Kate is just too important of a character for me to stop following.

**BatGlamorous** · 08-21-2014, 12:27 PM

I seem to be in the minority in thinking that vampire!Kate could be kinda cool. THis book suffers from not having a standout feature ever sicne the creative switch, so I think having Kate take on a Van Helsing type of role in Gotham could be fun.

Cautious;ly displeased about the Kate/Maggie relationship, but I have no way of knowing if this will stick or for how long so I'm witholding judgement. Nocturna breaking in and basically sexually assaulting her was beyond creepy (in the bad way) though.

4/5

**MajorHoy** · 08-21-2014, 01:33 PM

What would happen if Kate met up with Silver?

**Stazz** · 08-21-2014, 04:55 PM

Yeah, I don't think this is it for Maggie and Kate. It's just a bump along the way, and I've felt this relationship could do with slowing down a bit, and that the engagement wasn't a very logical thing to happen given where those two were at with each other at the time(they'd not been together for even a year, Kate had lied to Maggie, not to mention assaulted her. Those are all things that should have been bigger issues than they were treated as). Even if it is through though, I kinda have to say...so what? This happens to comic book characters all the time. Why should Batwoman get special treatment? Especially as a character who's so "young" in terms of publication history. Why lock her down so definitively so soon? But I do think the way this was handled was pretty good, and the Nocturna storyline is interesting, though I have to question how Nocturna got to learn Kate's identity. It feels like Kate would have a much more secured mask than that and better planning for this eventuality, given how she's got this more disciplined, militarised sort of methodology.

**Chickfighter** · 08-21-2014, 05:24 PM

Just a quick honest question from someone who left this book when J. H. Williams did. Has anything been done with Bette's character since?

**Punisher007** · 08-21-2014, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Stazz

Yeah, I don't think this is it for Maggie and Kate. It's just a bump along the way, and I've felt this relationship could do with slowing down a bit, and that the engagement wasn't a very logical thing to happen given where those two were at with each other at the time(they'd not been together for even a year, Kate had lied to Maggie, not to mention assaulted her. Those are all things that should have been bigger issues than they were treated as). Even if it is through though, I kinda have to say...so what? This happens to comic book characters all the time. Why should Batwoman get special treatment? Especially as a character who's so "young" in terms of publication history. Why lock her down so definitively so soon? But I do think the way this was handled was pretty good, and the Nocturna storyline is interesting, though I have to question how Nocturna got to learn Kate's identity. It feels like Kate would have a much more secured mask than that and better planning for this eventuality, given how she's got this more disciplined, militarised sort of methodology.

Well I can only speak for myself personally, but the constant bedhopping with these characters have gotten old/clichéd. I'm fine if that's the case for SOME characters, or if SOME characters have dysfunctional personal lives. However, Didio essentially saying that ALL superheroes must have crappy personal because apparently having a stable home life makes them "less superhereoy" just rubs me the wrong way. Why should we give a damn about ANY relationship that DC tries to push since they've essentially said that none of them will last? It's not even so much about THIS particular romance (although DC handled it in pretty much the WORST way possible), it's the attitude/philosophy behind it that's bugs plus. Plus they apparently think that being married automatically means that there won't be problems, that married people NEVER fight/disagree, which is completely false. Especially if the married couple is a cop and an outlaw vigilante who both know each other's identities. You can still do LOTS of "tension" there. It's like the higher-ups at DC have no idea how marriage actually works.

**Punisher007** · 08-21-2014, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Shimbo

Well, I'm definitely conflicted. I love Kate and Maggie together. I think having the only open lesbian female lead character in a comic series in a gay relationship is huge for mainstream comics. I think Kate and Maggie work together. However, it seems like with the new "the Unknowns" direction, spending half of every issue on Kate's personal life isn't really possible anymore. I also feel like, looking back at that Batman Eternal teaser image that came out last November, this may have been editorially driven for a certain story in Eternal. That's neither here nor there, I guess.

I definitely teared up reading Kate's letter, but this relationship is definitely not over. Some creative team will come along and put them back together. In the mean time though, it'd be cool to see Kate date other people (cough Renee cough), but it'd be equally as cool to continue to develop Kate as a sister, as a daughter, as a mentor, and as a superhero vigilante. The latter seems to be where the next arc will take us. I like Andreyko's writing and look forward to following Kate in her new direction, but I just can't help but feel that this separation is editorially mandated, despite Andreyko's best to make it appear organic. Whatever, bring on the Demon and establishing Kate in the scheme of Gotham and the broader N52 and I'll be happy. Kate is just too important of a character for me to stop following.

Of course it's editorially mandated. Didio essentially said so himself in his "all superheroes must have crappy personal lives in order to truly be superheroes" comments. I think that Andreyko has done as good a job as possible in trying to make this work (and I give him credit for that), but I haven't been able to fully get onboard with this ever since that creative team fiasco and Didio's subsequent nonsense comments.

**InformationGeek** · 08-21-2014, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Chickfighter

Just a quick honest question from someone who left this book when J. H. Williams did. Has anything been done with Bette's character since?

Bette was in the previous arc, but she didn't do much. She's been out of this arc since she's out of the town. So... not much has been done with her sadly. Hopefully the next arc will have the writer give her something to do.

**Shimbo** · 08-21-2014, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Punisher007

Of course it's editorially mandated. Didio essentially said so himself in his "all superheroes must have crappy personal lives in order to truly be superheroes" comments. I think that Andreyko has done as good a job as possible in trying to make this work (and I give him credit for that), but I haven't been able to fully get onboard with this ever since that creative team fiasco and Didio's subsequent nonsense comments.

And it really sucks that that's the case. But I like Kate too much as a character to drop her book, especially when her sales are pretty close to cancellation level. I also do like Andreyko's Kate, so I hope the introduction of this new team brings in some readers because her book really needs it.

What do you guys think about this new direction though? Kate broke up with Maggie, Bette has barely been around, Kate's dad and his wife haven't been around, and Beth has been gone (but she'll be back as Red Alice soon). This book used to be a Batwoman and family type thing, but Andreyko moved away from that to focus on just Kate. Which is cool. It was kind of cool to see Kate's family in comparison and parallel to the regular Batfam. But I don't think that'll be brought back anytime soon, especially if the Bat office wants to better integrate Kate into the Batfam proper.

**Stazz** · 08-21-2014, 07:59 PM

I like the snappier pace. I like that while she has problems, Kate seems like a more together person under Andreyko, while under Williams, there was this heaviness over her all the time (though the art probably amplified that) and that even her happy relationship times came across like "A SMALL RESPITE FROM THE GREY THAT ENVELOPS MY LIFE" while under Andreyko they're just a nice, normal couple.

**Kurisu** · 08-21-2014, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Shimbo

What do you guys think about this new direction though? Kate broke up with Maggie, Bette has barely been around, Kate's dad and his wife haven't been around, and Beth has been gone (but she'll be back as Red Alice soon). This book used to be a Batwoman and family type thing, but Andreyko moved away from that to focus on just Kate. Which is cool. It was kind of cool to see Kate's family in comparison and parallel to the regular Batfam. But I don't think that'll be brought back anytime soon, especially if the Bat office wants to better integrate Kate into the Batfam proper.

I've never cared for Bette and Kate's relationship with Maggie never really grabbed me (#renee4lyfe tbh~), so I'm all for it personally. The line-up for the Unknowns looks great too, though I'm kinda eh on them going to space.

**Stormcrow** · 08-21-2014, 09:03 PM

It was bound to happen once editorial made their feelings about the marriage clear, which is a shame, but Andreyko handled it very tastefully. It's the usual "sacrifice" route, but at least he gave us an angle we've probably never seen before in comics with Jamie's custody battle featuring a lesbian mother. And it seems like Maggie will still be a player in Gotham, so she's not going anywhere and they left the option open for a reunion.

I gotta say the highlight from Andreyko's run has been his character work, especially with Kate. The book had gotten way too crowded with the previous creative team and it was a smart move to focus more on who Kate Kane is behind the mask. That said, the villains and overall plots have not been vey good. Hopefully the vampire stuff and the new group she's forming will change that now that he's free to move her in a whole new direction.

**Chickfighter** · 08-22-2014, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by InformationGeek

Bette was in the previous arc, but she didn't do much. She's been out of this arc since she's out of the town. So... not much has been done with her sadly. Hopefully the next arc will have the writer give her something to do.

Thanks. I was afraid that might be the case.

**SplinteringHeart** · 08-22-2014, 04:38 AM

Hello...you folks are heavily invested in the character Kate/BW...thats good I'm the same with perhaps other characters, but I'm ok to let BW go where the writer takes it....
I'm not sure that Kate is going to become a vampire yet, that bite I might assume is more of a lustful bite than a "turn" bite.

What I want say though is very un-pc I know, but that last panel I found very sexy! Yes I know, I've seen too many Hammer/vampire erotica films, but yes, the end of this I thought was like a bit of a nod to those films....I don't know whats going to become of Nocturna now given the solicits for issue 35...I thought she may have become a new "love interest" for Kate, but there I go again on the vampire erotica front!

Jon

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