Has Spider-Man become Marvel's poor man version of Batman?

[Jman27]

I didn't even say anything about Gwen because I wasn't even talking about their romance. Peter and every other Spider character has been ineffectual Spencer's entire run. You could argue that that's a holdover from Slott's run. What has he accomplished?

And Hunted was by far the worst story that Spencer has written. Gibbon's death was narratively pointless.

He died cause the rich people thought they were playing a game. And you need some kind of tension in these stories or why even bother? so Gibbon was chosen and let's not like he was beloved anyway.

[NC_Yankee]

I didn't even say anything about Gwen because I wasn't even talking about their romance. Peter and every other Spider character has been ineffectual Spencer's entire run. You could argue that that's a holdover from Slott's run. What has he accomplished?

And Hunted was by far the worst story that Spencer has written. Gibbon's death was narratively pointless.

I disagree about Hunted ( but that is my opinion). As for Gwen I said Gwen etc meaning Ghost Spider, and etc means other Spider powered characters not Original Gwen. This by the way includes Silk ( in LR) and Miguel in his tale. I will also mention that the only major Spider-Man characters who have not popped up or we know are coming are. 1: Otto. 2: Electro (Dillion). 3: Hobgoblin ( Kingsley). 4: Sandman.5: The female versions of Octopus and 5a: Electro.

[NC_Yankee]

I didn't even say anything about Gwen because I wasn't even talking about their romance. Peter and every other Spider character has been ineffectual Spencer's entire run. You could argue that that's a holdover from Slott's run. What has he accomplished?

And Hunted was by far the worst story that Spencer has written. Gibbon's death was narratively pointless.

I disagree about Hunted ( but that is my opinion). As for Gwen I said Gwen etc meaning Ghost Spider, and etc means other Spider powered characters not Original Gwen. This by the way includes Silk ( in LR) and Miguel in his tale. I will also mention that the only major Spider-Man characters who have not popped up or we know are coming are. 1: Otto. 2: Electro (Dillion). 3: Hobgoblin ( Kingsley). 4: Sandman.5: The female versions of Octopus and 5a: Electro. 6: Jackal.

[PCN24454]

He died cause the rich people thought they were playing a game. And you need some kind of tension in these stories or why even bother? so Gibbon was chosen and let's not like he was beloved anyway.

That's kind of the problem. Killing off D-List characters only gives off the illusion of tension. Also, the rich people playing game, while realistic, is also really cliche. Hard to be invested in it. It dragged on way too much for how little had happened.

[PCN24454]

I disagree about Hunted ( but that is my opinion). As for Gwen I said Gwen etc meaning Ghost Spider, and etc means other Spider powered characters not Original Gwen. This by the way includes Silk ( in LR) and Miguel in his tale. I will also mention that the only major Spider-Man characters who have not popped up or we know are coming are. 1: Otto. 2: Electro (Dillion). 3: Hobgoblin ( Kingsley). 4: Sandman.5: The female versions of Octopus and 5a: Electro.

That I don't have a problem with because they're fairly overused and overrated anyways. The big problem with Kindred was that it was yet another Goblin story disguised as something actually good.

[Jman27]

That's kind of the problem. Killing off D-List characters only gives off the illusion of tension. Also, the rich people playing game, while realistic, is also really cliche. Hard to be invested in it. It dragged on way too much for how little had happened.

well they wont kill a A list character I mean Flash die but with venom now I dont know for how much longer it will stick

[PCN24454]

well they wont kill a A list character I mean Flash die but with venom now I dont know for how much longer it will stick

Using Death to create tension is always a cheap method. Using a character that no one cares about only makes it cheaper.

[Frontier]

Using Death to create tension is always a cheap method. Using a character that no one cares about only makes it cheaper.

But what if the lead up to the death makes you care about them?

[Orbus]

He died cause the rich people thought they were playing a game. And you need some kind of tension in these stories or why even bother? so Gibbon was chosen and let's not like he was beloved anyway.

aww...I liked the Gibbon.

[NC_Yankee]

Using Death to create tension is always a cheap method. Using a character that no one cares about only makes it cheaper.

I disagree.especially about part 2. Gibbon was essentially a “D-Lister” when it came to Spider-Man villains and Spencer gave him his best story.

[PCN24454]

But what if the lead up to the death makes you care about them?

Gibbon only got that issue because Spencer was planning on killing him. I'm not moved by it.

[Frontier]

Gibbon only got that issue because Spencer was planning on killing him. I'm not moved by it.

I feel like my point still stands, though, but to each their own .

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

Everyone is a poor man Batman.

-End debate-

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Everyone is a poor man Batman.

-End debate-

Batman himself started out as a poor man's Sherlock Holmes. It cost less to buy a Batman comic in the '40s and '50s than to buy a Sherlock Holmes book.

The point is Spider-Man is in terms of money and merchandise a bigger character than Batman, so it makes nonsense to address him as such in the title of this poll. His comics and titles on the whole are in much better shape than Batman's over the last five years or so. His movies whether its MCU or ITSV have also done a lot better than *checks notes* Zack Snyder's films.

And Spider-Man across history had many moments where he proved bigger than Batman, or Superman in fact.

The entire 1975 Superman v. The Amazing Spider-Man comic, which kind of established and confirmed Spider-Man as the "third" most famous and proverbial hero, only came into being becase ASM was outselling Superman who was DC's biggest title in the '70s. Batman was in third place after Spider-Man and Superman. That's why in that comic, you have Supes and Spidey acting like bros to each other which Batman in that same period wasn't treated the same way (not until TDKR when his stock went high enough for him to score a "win" over Superman).

And Spider-Man influenced Batman comics and adaptations several times over, doing many things first which Batman media borrowed later on:
-- The entire '70s era of Batman, during "Strange Apparitions" where Batman goes to a city and angsts about how he can't be with Silver St. Cloud because it gets in the way of the "mission" is more or less drawing from Spider-Man comics in terms of giving Batman an internal dimension and struggle.
-- Batman for most of his history prowled Gotham via Batmobile and so on. Spider-Man was webswinging and moving across the city long before Batman had a grappling hook and started doing the same thing (which was invented by the Tim Burton movies).
-- Green Goblin killed Peter's loved ones a decade before Joker shot Barbara Gordon and crowbarred Jason Todd.
-- Batman Beyond is of course, admitted by producers themselves, an attempt to put Peter Parker into a Batsuit. So you have a younger Romita-esque pretty boy (Terry McGinnis) who hangs out with a party girl (Dana/MJ) and puts on a full body-suit that covers his face and which has no cape (essentially following Spider-Man costume's design aesthetic).

It's a mistake to assume that because Batman's an older character that somehow it has any kind of seniority. The truth is any long-running serial franchise stays current and lasts because they vampirically feed on newer and emerging characters that come after them.

[NC_Yankee]

Everyone is a poor man Batman.

-End debate-

I will agree that the Keaton and Bale Batman movies are better then Spider-Man movies. But look at some of the other Bat related stuff. Joker was a very unpleasant movie. While I acknowledge Phoenix won the Oscar, so did Miles, and that was entertaining. Other Bat related movies flat out sucked like Harley Quinn and Batman and Robin. Venom was Citizen Kane and even Garfield as Peter was Brando as Don Vito Corleone compared to those films.