Silver age hawkman (katar hol/carter hall) appreciation thread 2021

[Rod G]

Well, regardless of how many Hawkmen there have been, I rather like the Silver Age version. But that's because the first time I really paid all that much attention to the Hawks was when Showcase Presents Hawkman vol. 1 came out. One thing I really liked in the Silver Age Hawkman was all the little invented Thanagarian socio-cultural bits in that comic. One of them was that since Thanagar was supposedly without want, all of the criminals on Thanagar just did it for kicks. There was also a detail about how married women on Thanagar wear earrings rather than rings on their fingers. Plus, just the whole "winged policemen" thing. It was a nice touch when most Silver Age DC comics about alien planets were more focused on what scientific advancements they had made.

That’s quite a point you made here.

[caj]

Loved Katar and Shayera's relationship. And I miss it.

[ducklord]

Quick question for the crowd -

If you were given keys to the kingdom, how WOULD you untangle the ongoing Hawkman continuity froo-frah?

Me, I'd start from here:
1) Carter and Shiera Sanders Hall were the Golden Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl, reincarnations of Khufu and all that. They got older. Shiera even died at some point.
2) Katar and Shayera Thol were early members of the JLA, and have been around for a long time as Hawkman and Hawkwoman.
3) Kendra Saunders, granddaughter (now maybe great-granddaughter) of Speed Saunders and distant relation to Shiera Sanders, has a near death experience, is infused with Shiera's spirit, and becomes Hawkgirl.

Everybody gets their favorites. I just don't know how to make the "All Hawkmen and Hawkwomen are part of the curse of Hath-Set" thing work without making everyone's brain hurt. I understand that the recent Hawkman series made a valiant effort to do some sort of transplanetary timey-wimey thing with the curse, but that just seems... excessive. Might it be better to just divorce the Thanagarian hawks from the curse altogether?

[caj]

Quick question for the crowd -

If you were given keys to the kingdom, how WOULD you untangle the ongoing Hawkman continuity froo-frah?

Me, I'd start from here:
1) Carter and Shiera Sanders Hall were the Golden Age Hawkman and Hawkgirl, reincarnations of Khufu and all that. They got older. Shiera even died at some point.
2) Katar and Shayera Thol were early members of the JLA, and have been around for a long time as Hawkman and Hawkwoman.
3) Kendra Saunders, granddaughter (now maybe great-granddaughter) of Speed Saunders and distant relation to Shiera Sanders, has a near death experience, is infused with Shiera's spirit, and becomes Hawkgirl.

Everybody gets their favorites. I just don't know how to make the "All Hawkmen and Hawkwomen are part of the curse of Hath-Set" thing work without making everyone's brain hurt. I understand that the recent Hawkman series made a valiant effort to do some sort of transplanetary timey-wimey thing with the curse, but that just seems... excessive. Might it be better to just divorce the Thanagarian hawks from the curse altogether?

This sounds great to me. I have no issues with it.

As long as I get Katar and Shayera back as the JLA members I remember, I am happy. But I have no issues with your ideas for Carter and Shiera either.

[DrNewGod]

Quick question for the crowd -

If you were given keys to the kingdom, how WOULD you untangle the ongoing Hawkman continuity froo-frah?

My fix would no longer work, however:

Immediately after Truman's Hawkworld mini I'd have published an In The Future story featuring Katar Hol and Shayera Thal's last adventure. Exactly when it occurs should be left vague, but it ends with the two of them getting time stranded in ancient Egypt, and being adopted in the local potentate's house under the names Khufu and Chay-Ra.

[MajorHoy]

. . . 2) Katar and Shayera Thol were early members of the JLA, and have been around for a long time as Hawkman and Hawkwoman...

. . . Everybody gets their favorites. I just don't know how to make the "All Hawkmen and Hawkwomen are part of the curse of Hath-Set" thing work without making everyone's brain hurt. I understand that the recent Hawkman series made a valiant effort to do some sort of transplanetary timey-wimey thing with the curse, but that just seems... excessive. Might it be better to just divorce the Thanagarian hawks from the curse altogether?

But you haven't addressed all the problems from Hawkworld with that.

The pre-Hawkworld versions and the post-Hawkworld versions, especially when it came to Shayera, were vastly different characters in many ways. And while DC could have gotten away with making the original Hawkworld 3-book series a revamp of the Silver/Bronze Age origins, they built too much off of it to let the pre-Hawkworld versions fit in to continuity any longer.

[ducklord]

But you haven't addressed all the problems from Hawkworld with that.

The pre-Hawkworld versions and the post-Hawkworld versions, especially when it came to Shayera, were vastly different characters in many ways. And while DC could have gotten away with making the original Hawkworld 3-book series a revamp of the Silver/Bronze Age origins, they built too much off of it to let the pre-Hawkworld versions fit in to continuity any longer.

Let Hawkworld (or something very much like it)stand as the official origin of the JLA/Silver Age Hawkman and Hawkwoman. After landing on Earth, the Hawks eventually fall in love, get married, join the JLA and all that. They have many adventures where they wear their full-body grey 'n' grim Tim Truman costumes, and just as many in which they don their fab yellow and green costumes. Basically, treat Hawkworld as though someone actually HAD put that "15 Years Ago" caption at the start of it, and headcanon away. We're so far removed from the Silver/Bronze Age AND the Hawkworld series (25+ years now) that I think we can pick and choose.

No Fel Andar. No "cramming Carter Hall into the JLA." No creating a temporary Hawkwoman just so a temporary Hawkman can kill her. No completely forgetting about Golden Eagle. Just pretend it was done right the first time, grab all the neat stuff from Hawkworld that you want, and massageit into the Silver Age Hawks as appropriate. Original flavor Katar and Shayera didn't exactly have memorable personalities, so grafting their Hawkworld personas onto them gives them a nice spicy kick.

There, done. For my next trick, I'll create a satisfying origin for Donna Troy that no DC writer will ever screw up ever again

[SJNeal]

^ ^ ^

I'ma go with this! Good job, ducklord.

[DrNewGod]

Let Hawkworld (or something very much like it)stand as the official origin of the JLA/Silver Age Hawkman and Hawkwoman. After landing on Earth, the Hawks eventually fall in love, get married, join the JLA and all that. They have many adventures where they wear their full-body grey 'n' grim Tim Truman costumes, and just as many in which they don their fab yellow and green costumes. Basically, treat Hawkworld as though someone actually HAD put that "15 Years Ago" caption at the start of it, and headcanon away. We're so far removed from the Silver/Bronze Age AND the Hawkworld series (25+ years now) that I think we can pick and choose.

No Fel Andar. No "cramming Carter Hall into the JLA." No creating a temporary Hawkwoman just so a temporary Hawkman can kill her. No completely forgetting about Golden Eagle. Just pretend it was done right the first time, grab all the neat stuff from Hawkworld that you want, and massageit into the Silver Age Hawks as appropriate. Original flavor Katar and Shayera didn't exactly have memorable personalities, so grafting their Hawkworld personas onto them gives them a nice spicy kick.

There, done. For my next trick, I'll create a satisfying origin for Donna Troy that no DC writer will ever screw up ever again

You pull off that last sentence, DC needs to kick their entire editorial staff to the curb and put you in charge.

[Shadowcat]

*My* Hawkman:

Not gonna lie, but same. I ever get the chance to do so, I’d basically do something similar to what Ducklord suggested, with some minor tweaks I’ve had.

[Psy-lock]

Quick question for the crowd -

If you were given keys to the kingdom, how WOULD you untangle the ongoing Hawkman continuity froo-frah?

I'd just go back to the Earth 1/Earth 2 split. On Earth 1 we have Katar and Shayera (a mix of Silver Age and Hawkworld), on Earth 2 we have Golden Age Carter and Shiera, plus Kendra as a legacy character (no reincarnation, she's just Shiera's descendant).

[John Venus]

I would suggest going with the original split as well. There are two sets of Hawks: Carter & Shiera and Katar and Shayera.

My pitch for the Hawks is this (cue narrator voice): long ago in ancient Egypt, a Thangarian warrior crash landed near the pyramid of Giza and fell in love with an Egyptian princess but the power hungry Hath-Set attempted to kill them and to seize the throne. The resulting struggle lead to the trio being reincarnated throughout time, destined to reunite every time to stop Hath-Set from taking over the world. Their most prominent reincarnation was Carter and Shiera in the 1940's where they served under the JSA and the All Star Squadron. At some point, Carter and Shiera travel to Thanagar where they meet Katar's grandfather along with Shayera's grandfather. Katar's grandfather would go on to name his kid Paran Katar who in turn names his child Katar Hol. Shayera's grandfather names his child Shayera Thal who has a child with Andar Pol also named Shayera Thal. Katar and Shayera would grown up to become Thangarian peace keepers. Katar grew up in the lap of luxury while Shayera grew up in the slums of Thangara. While chasing the shapeshifting criminal known as Byth Rok, they crash land on earth where they learn about Carter and Shiera. They also rescue a young, suicidal girl named Kendra Saunders who turns out to be the great grand niece of Shiera Sanders.

[Rod G]

Loved Katar and Shayera's relationship. And I miss it.

Nice and then some.

[ducklord]

I would suggest going with the original split as well. There are two sets of Hawks: Carter & Shiera and Katar and Shayera.

My pitch for the Hawks is this (cue narrator voice): long ago in ancient Egypt, a Thangarian warrior crash landed near the pyramid of Giza and fell in love with an Egyptian princess but the power hungry Hath-Set attempted to kill them and to seize the throne. The resulting struggle lead to the trio being reincarnated throughout time, destined to reunite every time to stop Hath-Set from taking over the world. Their most prominent reincarnation was Carter and Shiera in the 1940's where they served under the JSA and the All Star Squadron. At some point, Carter and Shiera travel to Thanagar where they meet Katar's grandfather along with Shayera's grandfather. Katar's grandfather would go on to name his kid Paran Katar who in turn names his child Katar Hol. Shayera's grandfather names his child Shayera Thal who has a child with Andar Pol also named Shayera Thal. Katar and Shayera would grown up to become Thangarian peace keepers. Katar grew up in the lap of luxury while Shayera grew up in the slums of Thangara. While chasing the shapeshifting criminal known as Byth Rok, they crash land on earth where they learn about Carter and Shiera. They also rescue a young, suicidal girl named Kendra Saunders who turns out to be the great grand niece of Shiera Sanders.

I'm always torn about how to "connect" the golden age hawks to the silver age ones. Now that there's some considerable temporal distance between the two, the notion of the Golden Age Hawks visiting Thanagar and inspiring the Hawk Police isn't quite as hokey. If Katar and Shayera are showing up on Earth a full, let's say, 60 years after Carter and Shiera's visit, that feels less like "this is the best explanation we could come up with," and more like "somewhat organic storytelling."

I'd probably leave Kendra's origin closer to her original one, though. But that's just me.

[Rod G]

I'd just go back to the Earth 1/Earth 2 split. On Earth 1 we have Katar and Shayera (a mix of Silver Age and Hawkworld), on Earth 2 we have Golden Age Carter and Shiera, plus Kendra as a legacy character (no reincarnation, she's just Shiera's descendant).

After mulling it over, I’ve decided to go along with your pitch.