Zack Snyder's Justice League *SPOILERS*

[CosmiComic]

Wrong CM (I refuse to ever call him Shazam)

Haha, I was joking. But it's too late for Billy Batson IMO.

[Rev9]

Which is fine, but a big portion of the appeal of the JL is seeing all the heroes unite and show off their abilities to contribute to victory in a way that justifies all of their presence. Contributing to the actual action instead of just planning.

Her main role throughout the movie is to the primary fighter against Steppenwolf, and then Superman breezes in and effortlessly pummels the guy who'd been giving her trouble for four hours. "Not impressed."
She gets to kill him, but only after he's defeated anyway, so it's like a participation trophy.

You can't have it both ways, if she couldn't defeat SW in the 3.75 hours on her own then she should at least have a chance working with Superman and Aquaman.After all this is a league movie.Besides we all know it's pretty cannon that Superman is the powerhouse in the league(MM might have a thing or two to put that to the test) popular contests not withstanding, so I don't see why the film showcasing that is such a surprise. I mean even I as a fan would prefer a league where everyone's power was unique and not present in 65% of the league, superstrength, superspeed, flight are too ubiquitous but it's not about to change

[CliffHanger2]

Which is fine, but a big portion of the appeal of the JL is seeing all the heroes unite and show off their abilities to contribute to victory in a way that justifies all of their presence. Contributing to the actual action instead of just planning.

Her main role throughout the movie is to the primary fighter against Steppenwolf, and then Superman breezes in and effortlessly pummels the guy who'd been giving her trouble for four hours. "Not impressed."
She gets to kill him, but only after he's defeated anyway, so it's like a participation trophy.

Ah, I think WWs presence was well justified in the movie as an integral part of the team. I think it would be hard to argue otherwise. Her not being able to kill SW on her own upped the stakes.

[Eyeswithoutaface]

I was surprised at how powerful Superman was when he turned up at the end, although this happened on the heels of showing Superman out in space having a sun bath. I'm inclined to think that the space scene was setup for no-selling Steppenwolf's axe.

[Midvillian1322]

The team is justified in this film for sure. I think the worry is going forward they won't be. If Superman was still alive Darkseid might have never sent Steppenwolf. And if he did Superman could have stopped all this in its tracks before it got going with how powerful he's shown to be. Guess we don't have to worry about it but if Sndyer had gotten a JL2 you would have to be creative about how you make the rest the team relevant. Cyborg serves a purpose Superman can't but the rest aren't really needed. There are ways to distract Superman so the rest the team is needed. McU gonna have the same issues with Captain Marvel. I hope when ever Rogue is introduced she siphons some power off. Anyway with Superman it's kinda accurate though. For sake of the film they should have made Flash significantly faster or Clark a little slower. Diana's fighting skill would give her a step up if Superman wasnt so powerful it completely negates it. Anyway they could have gotten around it with good writing. Superman being OP is on par for the character and while it makes future story writing harder,I liked it. If they keep Canvill around maybe just Nerf him a little. Like I don't see them making Black Adam strong enough to be a threat for this version of Supes based on Shazams strength in his film. Maybe bring Supes down to a little above them offset but this weakness to Magic. Also Adam might be way stronger then Shazam since he's knew to the gig. Shazam could get more powerful especially if he doesn't share his powers anymore lol

[CosmiComic]

Isn't the problem not Superman being OP but Steppenwolf being UP?

[Midvillian1322]

Isn't the problem not Superman being OP but Steppenwolf being UP?

Not really since he tore through the rest the team. As a unit they was doing some damage but he was still stronger then them.

[CosmiComic]

Not really since he tore through the rest the team. As a unit they was doing some damage but he was still stronger then them.

Oh, I meant Steppenwolf isn't as much of a threat as Darkseid, who would be more powerful than Superman

[KNIGHT OF THE LAKE]

I honestly don't get the whole black and white thing. Why is that more artistic than real color?

Depends on the purpose. Take Casino Royale's opening. It's black and white to suggest that it's in the past and before Bond is actually 007. It conveys the timeframe compared to the rest of the film and the rawness of where the character stands at this point compared to what we know of him.

It's effective in certain ways.

[CosmiComic]

Depends on the purpose. Take Casino Royale's opening. It's black and white to suggest that it's in the past and before Bond is actually 007. It conveys the timeframe compared to the rest of the film and the rawness of where the character stands at this point compared to what we know of him.

It's effective in certain ways.

I get what you're saying, and I liked those scenes. I guess for me some of these things are open to interpretation. But I've never really bought into ideas of B&W or muted palettes somehow changing the meaning of the story. Maybe it's my problem

[HsssH]

Cyborg serves a purpose Superman can't but the rest aren't really needed.

Superman wasn't shown to be able to rewind time like Barry. Watching the movie I also got the impression that Barry is a bit faster, but due to his inexperience he is not able to fully use that advantage.

[Rev9]

The team is justified in this film for sure. I think the worry is going forward they won't be. If Superman was still alive Darkseid might have never sent Steppenwolf. And if he did Superman could have stopped all this in its tracks before it got going with how powerful he's shown to be. Guess we don't have to worry about it but if Sndyer had gotten a JL2 you would have to be creative about how you make the rest the team relevant. Cyborg serves a purpose Superman can't but the rest aren't really needed. There are ways to distract Superman so the rest the team is needed. McU gonna have the same issues with Captain Marvel. I hope when ever Rogue is introduced she siphons some power off. Anyway with Superman it's kinda accurate though. For sake of the film they should have made Flash significantly faster or Clark a little slower. Diana's fighting skill would give her a step up if Superman wasnt so powerful it completely negates it. Anyway they could have gotten around it with good writing. Superman being OP is on par for the character and while it makes future story writing harder,I liked it. If they keep Canvill around maybe just Nerf him a little. Like I don't see them making Black Adam strong enough to be a threat for this version of Supes based on Shazams strength in his film. Maybe bring Supes down to a little above them offset but this weakness to Magic. Also Adam might be way stronger then Shazam since he's knew to the gig. Shazam could get more powerful especially if he doesn't share his powers anymore lol

JL2 can be made much more creative and interesting.No doubt in my mind Flash is faster than Superman, it's just that they could have shown him that way in JL because he 1. Is a novice, learning his limits or 2.Reveres Kal and so even while going against him has the mental attitude that Clark is better than him in everything even speed.I'm certain future flash more or less can't be caught by Superman unless plot requires it, this why he is still alive and will be for much of the movie

I also think with MM in the equation, they can easily show him as more powerful than Supes, just not able to snap him out of the AL hold.Like you don't have to show him stronger, but scale up his regeneration abilities making any attack by Superman no matter how vicious ,futile plus his ability to read Superman could help him anticipate every punch and eye beam coming, so he either effortlessly phases through attacks while landing his own punches, or simply gives Superman the illusion that he is pumelling him, while he is busy saving the rest of the regular rebels like Batman,Joker and Deathstroke. Giving Cyborg of the future the power or know how to create boom tubing wormholes like SW would also help make their survival(even if always on the run) in that hellish environment much more believable. With the right moves JL2 could be way more interesting with lots to surprise fans

[Lokimaru]

Not really since he tore through the rest the team. As a unit they was doing some damage but he was still stronger then them.

Steppenwolf didn't Tear through the Team he held them off at Best thank to his Armor and Axe giving him a Superior Defense. Once Superman Debuffed him (Sunder Weapon) It Allowing the others to get some Decent DPS In. He then used Sunder Armor to de-Armor him which pretty much spelled curtains for Ol Steppy.

[Midvillian1322]

Superman wasn't shown to be able to rewind time like Barry. Watching the movie I also got the impression that Barry is a bit faster, but due to his inexperience he is not able to fully use that advantage.

Rewinding time isn't a skill he can be doing often. It will remove all stakes if he could just rewind time at will. I'm sure Flashpoint will deal with the risks of him doing so. I'm sure Flash is faster but not to the point that Supes can't do what he does.. Speed force is his leg up and they aren't gonna write time travel into every story.. that would be silly.

JL2 can be made much more creative and interesting.No doubt in my mind Flash is faster than Superman, it's just that they could have shown him that way in JL because he 1. Is a novice, learning his limits or 2.Reveres Kal and so even while going against him has the mental attitude that Clark is better than him in everything even speed.I'm certain future flash more or less can't be caught by Superman unless plot requires it, this why he is still alive and will be for much of the movie

I also think with MM in the equation, they can easily show him as more powerful than Supes, just not able to snap him out of the AL hold.Like you don't have to show him stronger, but scale up his regeneration abilities making any attack by Superman no matter how vicious ,futile plus his ability to read Superman could help him anticipate every punch and eye beam coming, so he either effortlessly phases through attacks while landing his own punches, or simply gives Superman the illusion that he is pumelling him, while he is busy saving the rest of the regular rebels like Batman,Joker and Deathstroke. Giving Cyborg of the future the power or know how to create boom tubing wormholes like SW would also help make their survival(even if always on the run) in that hellish environment much more believable. With the right moves JL2 could be way more interesting with lots to surprise fans

Read above and making MM even more powerful doesn't fix the situation. Makes it worse now there's two character who make the rest redundant. Also if he's that powerful and sat on his ass for the past few movies I give up on the character from the jump. I know John Stewart was suppose to be the cameo instead before WBs said no. That would have made more sense then MM being here all along.

Steppenwolf didn't Tear through the Team he held them off at Best thank to his Armor and Axe giving him a Superior Defense. Once Superman Debuffed him (Sunder Weapon) It Allowing the others to get some Decent DPS In. He then used Sunder Armor to de-Armor him which pretty much spelled curtains for Ol Steppy.

It was a team effort is what I'm saying. Steppwolf wasn't too weak.... until Superman showed up. You can give credit to his Armor or are but it has nothing to do with what I was saying. He was plenty strong to take on the team prior to Supes. Doesn't matter anyway because the person I was responding too was saying in comparison to Dsrkseid I guess.

[Rev9]

Rewinding time isn't a skill he can be doing often. It will remove all stakes if he could just rewind time at will. I'm sure Flashpoint will deal with the risks of him doing so. I'm sure Flash is faster but not to the point that Supes can't do what he does.. Speed force is his leg up and they aren't gonna write time travel into every story.. that would be silly.


Read above and making MM even more powerful doesn't fix the situation. Makes it worse now there's two character who make the rest redundant. Also if he's that powerful and sat on his ass for the past few movies I give up on the character from the jump. I know John Stewart was suppose to be the cameo instead before WBs said no. That would have made more sense then MM being here all along.



It was a team effort is what I'm saying. Steppwolf wasn't too weak.... until Superman showed up. You can give credit to his Armor or are but it has nothing to do with what I was saying. He was plenty strong to take on the team prior to Supes. Doesn't matter anyway because the person I was responding too was saying in comparison to Dsrkseid I guess.

As for MM , introducing him in the universe as Swanwick came with the risk of 'why the anonymity when Krypton invaded or Doomsday was raising hell?' There has to be a reason why he didn't get involved. 1.Obviously if they make him super powerful, then the only plot device is to say he only gets involved in galactic threats like Darkseid( if Darkseid is revealed to have desolated Martian civilization in this universe), not planetary threats, preferring to steer clear of involving himself in humanity's affairs in any superhuman way(because he is that powerful, that interfering would change the power of human choice) Having done Watchmen's Manhattan, it wouldn't surprise me if Zack went this route.

Alternatively as I said before , they could make The Martian powerful in terms of negating damage like regeneration and phasing and telepathy being his main weapon but not giving him super strength or attacking abilities.In that regard he could still be seen as invulnerable to Superman ,but not enough to bring him down( especially with AL influence being beyond his power in story). Obviously to overpower him is also counterproductive as it amplifies all sorts of questions. As you can see some people on here want Superman to be the paragon of power , beyond reproach , yet if you do that then there is no need for the league as others are insignificant in that schema.For me JL2 will be the truest test of the league, not simply because they'd have to try limit Superman's threat to the planet as well as try save him by going against Darkseid, it raises the stakes of the threat when we know going against Darkseid or Superman under AL cost the original league's two members (WW and Aquaman) their lives.

Oh and as for Superman beating them without the suit and outclassing them all, well as a fan of all the characters one of the reasons could be they didn't want to bring him down ,after all they went through all that trouble raising him from the dead, so as silly or unbelievable as it may sound, they were holding back especially since we know Batman came without any contingency for mishaps.

The other is that the motherbox amped up his powers(an event unforseen but sort of expected by Cyborg) and hinted by the ship without giving specifics