As a Superman Fan, would I be happy watching the Snyder Justice League?

[MadFacedKid]

Wait, i thought he still soloed the Justice League, still statued Wonder Woman, and still trashed Steppenwolf?

They finish off Steppenwolf and send him packing to Apokolips in a team effort this time. In regards to the Wonder Woman thing. Supes is typically presented more powerful in outside media then Diana. It’s nothing new.

We see it in Justice League vs Teen Titans

There’s also Death of Superman.

We see it in Bruce Timm’s DCAU. Against Kalibak, Mongul and Aquaman.



I don’t really see why it would be an issue that the DCEU went the same route.

[Rightoya]

They finish off Steppenwolf and send him packing to Apokolips in a team effort this time.

Cool, so Superman could have not taken on Steppenwolf solo?

In regards to the Wonder Woman thing. Supes is typically presented more powerful in outside media then Diana. ItÂ’s nothing new.
DC
We see it in Justice League vs Teen Titans

ThereÂ’s also Death of Superman.
We see it in Bruce TimmÂ’s DCAU. Against Kalibak, Mongul and Aquaman.
I donÂ’t really see why it would be an issue that the DCEU went the same route.

Because it is a big issue in your other examples too, how can your reasoning even basically be, that if WB often shits on Wonder Woman in outside media, would that make it somehow ok to shit on her in the DCEU too? Would it be also ok if Batman makes the Justice League look like barely thinking fools, and clowns on Superman in some silly and disrespectful way in the DCEU, just because that would be the same route like too many of the Batman is the actual god among the Justice League stories go, or how about having Harley Quinn randomly appear, stealing Wonder Woman's lasso and outspeeding Superman too again? Bad writing or bad portrayal of characters don't gets justification, just by happening quite often, on the contrary it is even a reason to be more careful about it.

And especially Bruce Timm's Wonder Woman is even 1 of the worst not evil versions of Wonder Woman that exists, if basically the only good thing that can be said about a character version is about the voice actress, is that typically a very bad sign for the writing quality of said character. While Death of Superman was even retroactively making the entire rest of the main Justice League looking bad, by putting them for no good reason other than marketing into the story instead of the weaker team from the original.

[MadFacedKid]

Cool, so Superman could have not taken on Steppenwolf solo?


Because it is a big issue in your other examples too, how can your reasoning even basically be, that if WB often shits on Wonder Woman in outside media, would that make it somehow ok to shit on her in the DCEU too? Would it be also ok if Batman makes the Justice League look like barely thinking fools, and clowns on Superman in some silly and disrespectful way in the DCEU, just because that would be the same route like too many of the Batman is the actual god among the Justice League stories go, or how about having Harley Quinn randomly appear, stealing Wonder Woman's lasso and outspeeding Superman too again? Bad writing or bad portrayal of characters don't gets justification, just by happening quite often, on the contrary it is even a reason to be more careful about it.

And especially Bruce Timm's Wonder Woman is even 1 of the worst not evil versions of Wonder Woman that exists, if basically the only good thing that can be said about a character version is about the voice actress, is that typically a very bad sign for the writing quality of said character. While Death of Superman was even retroactively making the entire rest of the main Justice League looking bad, by putting them for no good reason other than marketing into the story instead of the weaker team from the original.

Because I don’t see it as shitting on Wonder Woman. It’s pretty common that Superman is the big dog powerhouse of the DC Universe and Justice League it’s not a new thing whatsoever. Diana being second to that isn’t shitting on her character especially when she often times fares better than every character outside Superman.

It’s just commonplace and it’s accurate to not just comics but external media is overall my point. If the film was a Wonder Woman film or like Dawn of Justice a debut film I could understand why she’d be put in a more favorable light. But even then it’s pretty context heavy. In Dawn of Justice she relied on her gear when fighting Doomsday most of his attacks on her were intercepted by her shield or bracelets. Whereas Superman took them head on and was still dealing with kryptonite poisoning in order to make Wonder Woman appear better in the film. This was continued with in Justice League where Superman doesn’t show up for the majority of the film so we get the other members more highlighted on. She probably gets the most action in terms of interacting with the main villain outside everyone else. With also being in 4 films at this point. BvS, WW, Justice League and 1984.

Regardless with what’s been established she put up the fight she logically should of put up given she didn’t beat Doomsday either and Steppenwolf was said by Zack to rival his Doomsday in power. She still got the finishing blow on Steppenwolf and was the one to kill Steppenwolf in her whole story arc of revenge for the Amazons that he slaughtered.

For all we know given Diana can’t fly as of yet she’ll be receiving an upgrade alongside the rest of the league. Given Arthur didn’t have his armor from his film or Atlan’s trident and Flash and Cyborg are still coming to grips with their abilities and are treated as rookies.

[Rightoya]

Because I donÂ’t see it as shitting on Wonder Woman. ItÂ’s pretty common that Superman is the big dog powerhouse of the DC Universe and Justice League itÂ’s not a new thing whatsoever. Diana being second to that isnÂ’t shitting on her character especially when she often times fares better than every character outside Superman.

How is portraying a character as laughable cannonfodder next to a peer not shitting on that character, and is she even second or faring better against Superman than Flash in the Snyder cut, is she only a statue to Superman now?

ItÂ’s just commonplace and itÂ’s accurate to not just comics but external media is overall my point.

How is it accurate to portray Wonder Woman as laughable canonfodder next to Superman?

If the film was a Wonder Woman film or like Dawn of Justice a debut film I could understand why sheÂ’d be put in a more favorable light.

But you could not understand why every character of the Justice League should be portrayed in a good way in a Justice League movie, and there is some good reason to not portray Wonder Woman in a good way in a Justice League movie?

But even then itÂ’s pretty context heavy. In Dawn of Justice she relied on her gear when fighting Doomsday most of his attacks on her were intercepted by her shield or bracelets. Whereas Superman took them head on and was still dealing with kryptonite poisoning in order to make Wonder Woman appear better in the film. This was continued with in Justice League where Superman doesnÂ’t show up for the majority of the film so we get the other members more highlighted on. She probably gets the most action in terms of interacting with the main villain outside everyone else. With also being in 4 films at this point. BvS, WW, Justice League and 1984.

So there is some good reason why Superman and Wonder Woman could not just both be portrayed in a good way, without heavy context, or absence of one of them?

Regardless with whatÂ’s been established she put up the fight she logically should of put up given she didnÂ’t beat Doomsday either

When has Superman beaten Doomsday solo?

and Steppenwolf was said by Zack to rival his Doomsday in power.

So Superman actually wouldn't have been able to beat Steppenwolf solo?

She still got the finishing blow on Steppenwolf and was the one to kill Steppenwolf in her whole story arc of revenge for the Amazons that he slaughtered.

Great, so she is still a weakllng next to Superman, but now also killed someone for revenge?

For all we know given Diana canÂ’t fly as of yet sheÂ’ll be receiving an upgrade alongside the rest of the league.

You mean the same upgrade she received decades earlier, in Wonder Woman 1984?

Given Arthur didnÂ’t have his armor from his film or AtlanÂ’s trident and Flash and Cyborg are still coming to grips with their abilities and are treated as rookies.

Good for them, but how is Wonder Woman still a rookie after 100 years?

[Lightning Rider]

I haven’t really been following any of the leaks as much as any of you might have been so I might be being optimistic. But I’d hope that Snyder with some of the backlash he’s gotten wouldn’t go in such a direction. I’d imagine the end goal would be making a film where that future doesn’t happen.

Yeah, in the end Superman leads the Justice League against Darkseid for a whole movie. The Knightmare is the middle chapter.

https://www.esquire.com/entertainmen...gue-interview/

[NaVi]

you can't ask a ww as strong as superman but much more skillful and with weapons, one thing or the other, you can't have both.

[Jim Kelly]

To the extent that . . .

You quote some of what I said, yet I don't know if you actually understood what I posted. Or maybe you just needed to use my quote to bounce off for your own ideas. Whatever. It comes across as disrespect, as if you think I don't know what I'm talking about.

But it seems like all Zack Snyder threads are full of posters dumping on each other just to score points. I should've known better and not posted here or on any threads having to do with Snyder's movies.

[MadFacedKid]

How is portraying a character as laughable cannonfodder next to a peer not shitting on that character, and is she even second or faring better against Superman than Flash in the Snyder cut, is she only a statue to Superman now?

In regards to speed Superman has better feats than Diana and Flash has better showings in regards to Superman, the movie displayed what we’ve seen countless times over. In terms of the JL when it comes to speed Flash is the fastest and Superman is second it’s nothing new. In terms of actually fighting the villain of the movie though she faired better than everyone else. It’s just you didn’t get your preferred depiction of Diana next to Superman I’m guessing. Which your basing off?

How is it accurate to portray Wonder Woman as laughable canonfodder next to Superman?

I don’t know exactly what this even means. But in terms of power level this is pretty consistent between both characters it’s nothing new.

But you could not understand why every character of the Justice League should be portrayed in a good way in a Justice League movie, and there is some good reason to not portray Wonder Woman in a good way in a Justice League movie?

I mean I feel like this part is subjective. Wonder Woman had a cool scene where she stopped a terrorist group saving the day. Aquaman I guess had that scene where he monetarily saved them from the Gotham harbor. Flash ran back in time to save the day. Cyborg probably did a lot by hacking the night crawler saving them from the flood, fixed the plane of Bruce to get them
To the destination and he also hacked into the motherboxes tearing them apart with Superman saving the day.

All of them were highlighted in one way or another as being important and saving each other. Your complaint honestly
seems more stemmed that Wonder Woman wasn’t his physical equal which isn’t really consistent and changes by writer.

So there is some good reason why Superman and Wonder Woman could not just both be portrayed in a good way, without heavy context, or absence of one of them?

You’re the one claiming she was portrayed in a bad way. I’m not I didn’t really have a complaint on her portrayal outside dialogue and delivery. She was so skilled she never really got directly hit by the villain end Steppenwolf had to resort into playing with her emotions to catch her off guard by saying she wasn’t there to save the Amazonians.

When has Superman beaten Doomsday solo?

There was that New52 instance where Diana was beaten and bloodied up and Superman ripped Doomsday in half. He also put up a better fight in both Death of Superman and when he showed up in Rebirth. Which for the most part makes sense given it’s a Superman comic and how he’s generally portrayed in the DC Universe. There’s a reason in Geoff Johns origin of the Justice League Darkseid had a parademon take Superman off back to Apokolips and no other league member.

So Superman actually wouldn't have been able to beat Steppenwolf solo?

If you’re talking about in terms of a physical fight yeah Superman would of beat Superman off what we we’re shown. But
1.) He was dead so he couldn’t. Where the league comes in
2.) If he showed up by himself at the end and beat up Steppenwolf, without the League specifically Flash and Cyborg. Darkseid still would of won. So those two were just as important.

Which before you say why couldn’t Wonder Woman be just as important. She’s been in 4 films. She outperformed Superman and Batman against Doomsday, and Flash and Cyborg all they got right now for portrayal is Justice League. She was handled way better in terms of capability to every other member outside Superman. Which I don’t see the issue cause it was his return.

Comics do this too. It’s nothing new. Snyder’s arc where they go to the World Forgers universe practically highlighted the same story trope with Superman arriving and saving the day.

Great, so she is still a weakllng next to Superman, but now also killed someone for revenge?

If that’s what you got from the movie I guess. What I saw was someone who injured Superman with a headbutt, and was trying to talk him down rather than injure him. I don’t see any issue with the portrayal given the context hell the whole Max Lord Superman thing isn’t to far different given that actually had Diana need to resort to her gear to stop Superman, and he was able to briefly knock her out with a hit. Again consistency.

You mean the same upgrade she received decades earlier, in Wonder Woman 1984?

I admittedly didn’t watch WW1984 cause of the brief clips I saw. But I’d put that more on the writing team of that movie than Snyder. Given Diana debuted in Dawn of Justice first which timeline wise happened after 1984 and she didn’t fly in Dawn of Justice. That sounds like bad writing unless I’m missing something on the WW1984 side of things in regards to consistency.

From what I heard though she uses the Eagle suit to fly and help with her wavering power, that Cheetah took part of from the wishing stone. So I feel like your not telling me something or your ignoring context if not just logical sense on film placement.

Good for them, but how is Wonder Woman still a rookie after 100 years?

I think she was said to be 5000 years old. She seems pretty adept to her powers and gear. So I don’t get where I said she was a rookie or how anyone would of came to that conclusion. What I said was the fact that she can’t fly yet makes me doubt she’s not going to get any more buffs

[MadFacedKid]

you can't ask a ww as strong as superman but much more skillful and with weapons, one thing or the other, you can't have both.

Honestly you make Superman pretty irrelevant at that point if you make her physically as powerful with him with greater skill and weapons that can kill him. I’m honestly surprised people would really expect her to be that Uber next to him.

[manofsteel1979]

Yeah, in the end Superman leads the Justice League against Darkseid for a whole movie. The Knightmare is the middle chapter.

https://www.esquire.com/entertainmen...gue-interview/

Thanks for the link. Thats interesting. It seems the plan has changed from his original pitch. Originally part 2 was supposed to be JL vs. The injustice gang led by Luthor for most of it,but we'd find out it was all a set up by Darkseid to in one fell swoop conquer earth and subjugate Supes by killing Lois and enslaving him with Anti life. Part 3 would have been the nightmare movie where the undid everything,Batman would have died and the end would be a big battle in the present day.

It sounds like he has taken out the injustice gang stuff,moved up the nightmare stuff and decided to make the big battle with Supes as the leader the third chapter. More than likely so the potential plot doesn't look like a carbon copy of Infinity war/Endgame. I like the idea of part 3 being Superman centric.

[NaVi]

Honestly you make Superman pretty irrelevant at that point if you make her physically as powerful with him with greater skill and weapons that can kill him. I’m honestly surprised people would really expect her to be that Uber next to him.

WW fans say they want him to be like Superman, but for them this is equality. ww physically equal to superman, more skilled, magic team (superman's weakness), no weaknesses. that's ww, now what they want from superman. physically equal to ww, useless in combat, who fights with fists, who has a thousand weaknesses. How do you see equality?

[Yoda]

Thanks for the link. Thats interesting. It seems the plan has changed from his original pitch. Originally part 2 was supposed to be JL vs. The injustice gang led by Luthor for most of it,but we'd find out it was all a set up by Darkseid to in one fell swoop conquer earth and subjugate Supes by killing Lois and enslaving him with Anti life. Part 3 would have been the nightmare movie where the undid everything,Batman would have died and the end would be a big battle in the present day.

It sounds like he has taken out the injustice gang stuff,moved up the nightmare stuff and decided to make the big battle with Supes as the leader the third chapter. More than likely so the potential plot doesn't look like a carbon copy of Infinity war/Endgame. I like the idea of part 3 being Superman centric.

The original pitch was never approved in any fashion. It never got beyond those storyboards. A lot of people seem to assume that it was going to happen as the sequels but I don't even think the set up ever got to the script stage much less had any chance of actually happening.

[NaVi]

Thanks for the link. Thats interesting. It seems the plan has changed from his original pitch. Originally part 2 was supposed to be JL vs. The injustice gang led by Luthor for most of it,but we'd find out it was all a set up by Darkseid to in one fell swoop conquer earth and subjugate Supes by killing Lois and enslaving him with Anti life. Part 3 would have been the nightmare movie where the undid everything,Batman would have died and the end would be a big battle in the present day.

It sounds like he has taken out the injustice gang stuff,moved up the nightmare stuff and decided to make the big battle with Supes as the leader the third chapter. More than likely so the potential plot doesn't look like a carbon copy of Infinity war/Endgame. I like the idea of part 3 being Superman centric.

so superman fans would have to wait 3 jl movies to see superman more than 5m and with more than 2 sentences. Superman in the snyderverse is like the ring in the lord of the rings, everything revolves around him, he is the most powerful, but he is only an object that is for the story to advance.

[Soubhagya]

Wait, i thought he still soloed the Justice League, still statued Wonder Woman, and still trashed Steppenwolf?

In the final fight scene if you take out one character, the League would most probably loose.

Only Arthur felt like an extra. And to an extent Wonder Woman. But without her warning the League wouldn't have formed in time. Bruce wouldn't count as he almost singlehandedly laid waste to the parademon army apart from blowing the defenses. He did form the team as well.

In the theatrical cut it looked like only Superman and Cyborg were doing any work. Even in saving people, Flash saved a family and Superman an entire building. It looked like 'Superman and Friends' as any tension the movie had was practically over once Superman arrived. He even did 50% of the work in separating the mother boxes as Barry charging Cyborg with power wasn't there. Here Superman is like 33% in the separation of the boxes.

Any way you look at it, the impact of Superman is there, but not at the expense of other guys' contributions like in the theatrical cut.

As for Superman taking on the League, it does not matter imo. Here Superman took them out by brute force. Batman takes them out by strategy and tech in the comics. I think Diana does that as well in some comic. I am pretty sure if Barry ever goes evil, he could take out the league. My takeaway from this movie is that Cyborg is scary. Probably the most dangerous guy they have. The League is made up of very dangerous people who on a given day could take out the rest of the League using their thing.

And if you are disappointed. its fair enough. Not everyone would agree with me on this.

[Yoda]

In the final fight scene if you take out one character, the League would most probably loose.

Steppenwolf definitely would have killed Cyborg long before Barry had a chance to charge and Superman would have arrived had Wonder Woman and Arthur not pulled him back down to the lower levels. They all definitely played a roll. Yes Superman probably could keep Steppenwolf off Cyborg on his own, but he would not have been there in time to do so. I agree all of them played a role in the final battle.