Check out Henry Cavill in the new Superman costume!

[planetman]

Thanks for a civil reply and the interesting graphic. I respect your opinions so, I'm not here for an argument; just to state my own views as clearly as I can and not trying to convince anyone to change their own views whatever they may be.

I don't agree that Cavill's suit is that close to the traditional image to be accepted by me as a valid representation of it in the visual sense as seen in the graphic you supplied. It has a vague resemblance of it but is more akin to the minority of images there which depart more from the traditional.

The main criticism I have is that it fails to adhere to the "Rule of Thirds" , a long established artistic formula for ideal representation of the human figure as refined by Leonardo da Vinci from the works of Marcus Vitruvius Pollio, a Roman architect of the first century BC. I have posted a reference to this before, but I don't know if you have seen it or have previous knowledge of it since you are interested in design matters;

http://totalhistory.com/vitruvian-man/
Edit: link seems redirected, try cut and paste while I look for another.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/leonard...itruvian.shtml

Wilkinson's "design" ignores this and omits a clear waistline which marks the "first third" of the ideal figure and leaves the eye to move towards the feet as there is nothing to hold interest as was provided by the central belt and trunks in the majority of the images in your graphic. The squiggly side decorations, now apparently removed, did not, in my view enhance the appearance at all and created an irritation for the eye due to natural movement because of the absence of a central focal point.

The colour palette, as seen in the latest set pics, is not an improvement and continues the "dull-down and deconstruct" philosophy of SNG. There is nothing in your collection of images that I can see which matches this level of dullness in the more traditional ones there. The brighter colours are the ones more associated with Superman over the years.

The image I posted of Cavill in the more traditional outfit has an irony in that the basic suit part was derived from a set pic from one of the earlier appearances of the previous edition of the lizard skin suit which I saved. I don't see Superman as a reptilian, so, I think this is a more drastic departure from the traditional than the others referred to.

[manofsteel1979]

I'm going to have to disagree with you about the suit on this one planetman. Based on it's influences, the MOS suit is by far the most traditional styled Superman suit in current production. I'll attach an image to help illustrate my point here. The darker shade of blue or the blue/gray has been used several times in Superman's comic history. This goes all the way back to the 40's, Superman's early years. The \S/ shield on the MOS suit is actually a slight variation of a very retro version of Superman's \S/ from the 40's. The 40's version had the slightly angled top of the S and went thin to thick to thin again with a serif style S. It's actually much more traditional than the \S/ Superman has worn in the comics for decades. As for costume design, it's there. Take the strange alien piping (for lack of a better word) on the torso of the costume. That's actually pretty strong design, especially character design. The design on the torso starts out wide on the top and comes around to be narrow at the waist/stomach area. That visually creates emphasis on the chest. Combine that with the large \S/ shield and your attention is drawn to Superman's chest first. Strong characters always have their chest, shoulders and arms emphasized, as we associate those parts of the body with physical strength. So in this case, the costume is following that strong design tradition to emphasize that Superman is a strong character. Like when you see a strong cartoon character who has a huge upper body and tiny little stick legs, you know he's physically strong (take animated Superman from STAS). The boots of the MOS costume are the boots Superman has worn since the 40's. A long cape is nothing new for Superman either. Though I do wish the would put the yellow S on the back of the movie cape again. So I must disagree with you about the lack of design skills of the costume designer or that the MOS suit is breaking from any kind of tradition in an attempt to distance the films from Superman's history. It's a far more historic costume than Superman has worn in years.

That being said, I find the texture a bit much and a little distracting. So I probably wouldn't have done that myself. I think the extra design elements on the torso and sleeves add enough visual interest that the texture is a little overdone. Also, sorry you don't like the suit or the films. You seem like a pretty passionate Superman fan (as most of us are). So it would be cool to get a film version of Supes that we could all enjoy (if that's even possible). Didn't mean to make it sound like I was jumping on you or anything. Design is one of my strong suits, so I like to discuss it. In message boards past I've done some pretty thorough analysis of the "classic" superman costume in defense of why it lasted so long and why it works so well. I've also criticized the Nu52 suit for it's design flaws. I stand by both of those analyses.

I really hope they don't ruin those nice bright colors on the suit with another filter. That would be a terrible waste.

Here's the pic I was referencing that shows the history of Superman's costume.

Attachment 8792

Once again Manduck, you more eloquently make my point than i could ever hope to.

I wish more fans were as opened minded as you are.

[Vanguard-01]

As far as the "lizard skin" design?

I'm okay with it as kind of textural contrast in the suit, but my only real gripe about it is that the ENTIRE SUIT seems to be made of the stuff. I mean everything. Even the boots.

The lizard skin would look good if it was just the top and/or the legs, but when even the boots have the exact same pattern, the whole costume starts to look like one giant wet suit. It seriously looks like Superman puts the entire suit on by wriggling into it like a diver gets into a wet suit.

It's nice for a contrast, but it really shouldn't be the whole thing.

[manduck37]

Thanks for a civil reply and the interesting graphic. I respect your opinions so, I'm not here for an argument; just to state my own views as clearly as I can and not trying to convince anyone to change their own views whatever they may be.

I don't agree that Cavill's suit is that close to the traditional image to be accepted by me as a valid representation of it in the visual sense as seen in the graphic you supplied. It has a vague resemblance of it but is more akin to the minority of images there which depart more from the traditional.

The main criticism I have is that it fails to adhere to the "Rule of Thirds" , a long established artistic formula for ideal representation of the human figure as refined by Leonardo da Vinci from the works of Marcus Vitruvius Pollio, a Roman architect of the first century BC. I have posted a reference to this before, but I don't know if you have seen it or have previous knowledge of it since you are interested in design matters;

http://totalhistory.com/vitruvian-man/
Edit: link seems redirected, try cut and paste while I look for another.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/leonard...itruvian.shtml

Wilkinson's "design" ignores this and omits a clear waistline which marks the "first third" of the ideal figure and leaves the eye to move towards the feet as there is nothing to hold interest as was provided by the central belt and trunks in the majority of the images in your graphic. The squiggly side decorations, now apparently removed, did not, in my view enhance the appearance at all and created an irritation for the eye due to natural movement because of the absence of a central focal point.

The colour palette, as seen in the latest set pics, is not an improvement and continues the "dull-down and deconstruct" philosophy of SNG. There is nothing in your collection of images that I can see which matches this level of dullness in the more traditional ones there. The brighter colours are the ones more associated with Superman over the years.

The image I posted of Cavill in the more traditional outfit has an irony in that the basic suit part was derived from a set pic from one of the earlier appearances of the previous edition of the lizard skin suit which I saved. I don't see Superman as a reptilian, so, I think this is a more drastic departure from the traditional than the others referred to.

Thank you as well, for your civil reply. I definitely agree with you on a lot of your points. I'm very familiar with the rule of thirds, though I'm glad you mentioned it. Most superhero costumes are guilty of breaking the rule of thirds, current Nu52 Superman included. That aspect of design is most often forgotten when it comes to designing superheroes. I'm not sure that I'd lay that mistake squarely at the feet of the costume designer, as the influence comes from comics. Though it was certainly an opportunity to correct that little mistake. It seems that both movie and comic Superman are stuck as one big swath of blue. It's a shame. Especially since I think the Nu52 suit could use a little more yellow to brighten things up and provide a bit more contrast.

I'm glad you brought up the waistline thing too. To emphasize strength, we have the chest and shoulders thing. Though there are usually more efforts to make the waist look thinner. It provides some nice contrast for the rest of the upper body and adds to that strength look. I'd like to see more yellow in the MOS suit at his waist.

In any case, my main point was that the MOS suit (and DOJ) isn't entirely off base. It definitely takes elements that have popped up several times in Superman's history. So I wouldn't say that it's any kind of drastic departure or didn't take things from Superman's history. Even if those trends tended not to be the norm for Superman's comics, they definitely popped up a few times. It was kind of strange for me to see an almost bookend of darker colors in Superman's suit, in the 40's and 90's. I prefer a more brightly colored Superman myself, as he should be a beacon of good and hope. Plus he's not a "dark" character. Superman is pretty optimistic.

I'm happy to talk art and design with someone who knows their stuff. Thanks for the interesting and polite response. I haven't done a good costume analysis in a while and this is fun.

[manduck37]

Once again Manduck, you more eloquently make my point than i could ever hope to.

I wish more fans were as opened minded as you are.

Thanks manofsteel1979! For what it's worth, I often say the same thing of you. Glad to see you're still posting and in on the discussions of Superman. We need more posters like you.

[manofsteel1979]

Thanks manofsteel1979! For what it's worth, I often say the same thing of you. Glad to see you're still posting and in on the discussions of Superman. We need more posters like you.

Same to you. I remember you from the old DC Message Boards. You have long been a voice of reason many times here and there.

I guess I do get a little annoyed at the relentless negativity coming from a few posters here and elsewhere (without naming names) towards anything related to MOS or DOJ or really anything that falls outside the normal parameters of "classic" or "traditional" Superman( or more apopriately THEIR preferences of what they consider "classic" or "iconic" Superman), and if you dare disagree with them or don't see things in their way, well, you are not really a Superman fan, or you have no taste, or you don't respect the past or the creators etc.
There are many different versions of Superman, and as many different types of Superman fans. Some people are going to gush over this new film like it's the greatest thing...and some will continue to dissect each nugget of news with a critical eye and tell us all how wrong it all is. You know what though, that's ok. At the end of the day, we love comics...and we love Superman and are fans of the character in his many forms and interpretations. We all have our favorites and our less favorites...and none of us are right or wrong really.

The sooner all of us remember that, the better.

[Terok Nor]

There's certainly some hypersensitivity on both sides.

If there's a message to be gained from this suit, it's that they're building off of the approach of MoS. This suit is certainly not a serious aesthetic departure, from that film's suit, but a subtle shift.

For my personal opinion, I don't think the suit represents a major problem-- when I look at it I see Superman. I think the texture is...strange. Kind of UnderArmor-y?

I also think there was a missed opportunity in, if you're going the route of the S standing in as a Kryptonian symbol, emphasizing the negative spaces (which if you've ever read ASS, you've seen the can resemble a distorted yin yang in some versions of the crest) so that it feels like a real alien symbol just happens to form S. This particular S is more like a human scripted S than the traditional comics one, which is heavily stylized. This is not a major concern-- just something I noticed.

[Qwathings]

It seems you've actually gotten mixed up.

It may seem that way, but I was trying to make an observation on a common excuse for eliminating the trunks, and how that excuse isn't applied to other costume decisions. But let's not get bogged down discussing posters or the qualities of posts, I don't think such things are allowed.

"Look silly" = "would be silly to wear into battle" Those aren't the same.

They're trying to tell a story. The costumes being worn are an element in the story telling process. If something can be seen as silly within the reality presented by the story then it may be seen as silly in the audiences viewing experience. The two ideas may not be the same idea, but they aren't entirely separate either.

The changes you've cited are done to make the characters look better. FYI the "high heels" are done to make Gadot look taller, BW wore the same in Avengers. Likewise Batman's cowl. Obviously it would hold his head still, but it looks better that way.

Batman looks better when he needs to turn his entire body in order to look to the side, or lean back in order to look up? I think it looks stiff, unnatural and silly.

[Sacred Knight]

It only looked cool when Keaton was wearing the suit. He made the restriction look dramatic and intimidating the way he would turn. I don't know what it was about him. Just another one of the reasons he was the best, though.

[Cypher]

I personally really like the costume.

Brighten it up to normal colors and I think its the best modern rendition currently, theres lots of subtle well placed details that balance out the suit.

[manofsteel1979]

I personally really like the costume.

Brighten it up to normal colors and I think its the best modern rendition currently, theres lots of subtle well placed details that balance out the suit.

Agreed. I honestly wish they would scrap the Jim Lee version and bring in this version with brighter colors and sans texture to the comics.

[planetman]

Thank you as well, for your civil reply. I definitely agree with you on a lot of your points. I'm very familiar with the rule of thirds, though I'm glad you mentioned it. Most superhero costumes are guilty of breaking the rule of thirds, current Nu52 Superman included. That aspect of design is most often forgotten when it comes to designing superheroes. I'm not sure that I'd lay that mistake squarely at the feet of the costume designer, as the influence comes from comics. Though it was certainly an opportunity to correct that little mistake. It seems that both movie and comic Superman are stuck as one big swath of blue. It's a shame. Especially since I think the Nu52 suit could use a little more yellow to brighten things up and provide a bit more contrast.

I'm glad you brought up the waistline thing too. To emphasize strength, we have the chest and shoulders thing. Though there are usually more efforts to make the waist look thinner. It provides some nice contrast for the rest of the upper body and adds to that strength look. I'd like to see more yellow in the MOS suit at his waist.

In any case, my main point was that the MOS suit (and DOJ) isn't entirely off base. It definitely takes elements that have popped up several times in Superman's history. So I wouldn't say that it's any kind of drastic departure or didn't take things from Superman's history. Even if those trends tended not to be the norm for Superman's comics, they definitely popped up a few times. It was kind of strange for me to see an almost bookend of darker colors in Superman's suit, in the 40's and 90's. I prefer a more brightly colored Superman myself, as he should be a beacon of good and hope. Plus he's not a "dark" character. Superman is pretty optimistic.

I'm happy to talk art and design with someone

who knows their stuff. Thanks for the interesting and polite response. I haven't done a good costume analysis in a while and this is fun.

The set pics shown, which seem to be the aftermath of Cavill's ice bucket ordeal, and in daylight, have brought some suggestions that the costume is somehow " brighter" coloured than previously. I don't think so; I think this is merely an effect of the costume being wet when these photos were taken.

The other image which has been published, but not posted here, as far as I know, shows a different approach more in keeping with the relentless negativity being imposed on the character by SNG although it's Snyder & Goyer who are being credited with the script and story this time.

This is the image which has been released as a publicity shot to match the recent Affleck ones:

http://I.imgur.com/Gbj6CRx.jpg

This has been filtered to make it darker, so I'm presuming it's the "darker" image they want to promote.

It has already been manipped on the net to give a more classic look:

http://i.imgur.com/Hhwx5Zw.jpg

There is also a non-filter version of the official pic if I can find the link for it, which does show brighter colours.

Enlarging the first pic shows the narrow "belt" is not connected up to the square "buckle" which has a raised \S/ stamped on it, ala SR, which was a bad idea then too; superfluous and unnecessary "jewellery" for a serious character. Apparently, Wilkinson likes jewellery.

The side piping is still there but straightened out; also unnecessary over decoration. There is also a lot more rubber padding in the forearms and thighs and the chest area has been puffed out more, possibly so Cavill can look more bulky than Affleck.

Interesting graphic, by Kate Willaert (for discussion purposes);

http://i.imgur.com/uTu87qU.jpg

The "insert graphic" doesn't work for me on this device, perhaps you could insert it in one of your posts so others can see what we're talking about. Likewise the other pics if it's not too much trouble?